Is the United States an empire?

[New haven america]

Theres a lot of people here who would fundamentally disagree with you on that here.

Oh well, America First.

So a mantle of responsibility sort of? I see where you are coming from, but all I have been saying that this view has become somewhat increasingly rare.

The thing is this has been increasingly less the case in the past years and far less if anymore at all under Trump. The US is slowly loosing its leadership function leaving behind a vacuum. I still remember the 1990s when the US were the definetive leader and everyone would follow its trends. Now that is no longer so much being the case. Perhaps because of the massive internal crisis in the US and beyond.

Oh and lets not get into the more darker and sinister aspects of the American Empire...

Largely, the Trump Presidency has been an egregious tear upon the moral fibre of the United States. This trend is shameful and frankly, it's making our country weak as the man himself.

A three-time divorced draft-dodging coward.

My idea of America First is tearing down the rotten institutions and laws, then rebuilding it from the ground up.

[Xuloqoia]

And what would you prefer? Two hundred discordant nation-states? A world where the CCP runs things? No civilization at all, with a Hobbesian state of nature?

Way to jump to conclusions my dude.

Do I get a gold medal, then?

Jokes aside, our options in the near-future are (from best to worst):

• American Hegemony (under my ideals)
• American Hegemony (under current American ideals)
• The Status Quo of Two-Hundred-or-So Bickering, Squabbling, Disharmonious Nation-States
• PRC Hegemony
• No Civilization Whatsoever, "Bellum Omnium Contra Omnes" Purge Time

[Nakena]

Theres a lot of people here who would fundamentally disagree with you on that here.



So a mantle of responsibility sort of? I see where you are coming from, but all I have been saying that this view has become somewhat increasingly rare.

The thing is this has been increasingly less the case in the past years and far less if anymore at all under Trump. The US is slowly loosing its leadership function leaving behind a vacuum. I still remember the 1990s when the US were the definetive leader and everyone would follow its trends. Now that is no longer so much being the case. Perhaps because of the massive internal crisis in the US and beyond.

Oh and lets not get into the more darker and sinister aspects of the American Empire...

The problem is that the status quo of about two hundred or so discordant nation-states is a really awful one, that should be done away with and soon.

You mean like this?

[Xuloqoia]

The problem is that the status quo of about two hundred or so discordant nation-states is a really awful one, that should be done away with and soon.

You mean like this?

The problem is that Bison was not fit to rule. Peace on earth must be established, but not a tyranny. Just institutions are needed for peace on earth to last.

[Catsfern]

well if you count Hawaii, Puerto Rico, Guam, The US Virgin Islands, American Samoa, and the Northern Mariana Islands. That fits the ethnic definition

and is you take into account the sheer size of america (most of which was either bought from other countries or won in wars, or stolen from natives) then you get a lot of very imperialistic practices from the USA even being a dick to the native like the other imperial powers.

the answer is yes America is an empire,

[Monsone]

The USA is a confederation of states, like Austo-Hungary. But as a whole nation, it's a superpower and a hegemon; an empire, no. And while you could argue that the USA was an empire, currently it isn't. Simply, the level of control an empire has is not possesed by the USA, not to mention, the USA no longer has colonies.

While ethnographicaly one could alos argue that the USA is an empire (so was Austro-Hungary), the reality is that the USA works like a union of nations with an extremely strong and powerfull central government that basicaly controls the nations, yet those nations have large amounts of jurisdiction over themselves, and occasioanly, huge amounts of power on the global stage (like California).

[Nakena]

You mean like this?

The problem is that Bison was not fit to rule. Peace on earth must be established, but not a tyranny. Just institutions are needed for peace on earth to last.

A lot of people (and its not a small number) would consider an american supremacy to be a Tyranny too. I vividly recall the extensive anti-americanism of the Bush years, that seems now somewhat have vanished.

Besides american institutions aren't made for this purpose, and the whole idea of an American Empire is somewhat antithema to the ideals and the ideas of "the constitution" and all that jazz. Wouldn it for Wilson and later WW II and the inheritance of certain faustian spirit and the military industrial complex, things would be somewhat looking different.

Way to jump to conclusions my dude.

Do I get a gold medal, then?

Jokes aside, our options in the near-future are (from best to worst):

• American Hegemony (under my ideals)
• American Hegemony (under current American ideals)
  
• The Status Quo of Two-Hundred-or-So Bickering, Squabbling, Disharmonious Nation-States
• PRC Hegemony
• No Civilization Whatsoever, "Bellum Omnium Contra Omnes" Purge Time

That analysis is not entirely off. Right now it looks strongly as if the 3rd option is becomming more and more likely. The western/american hegemony has fallen.

[Catsfern]

The USA is a confederation of states, like Austo-Hungary. But as a whole nation, it's a superpower and a hegemon; an empire, no. And while you could argue that the USA was and empire, currently it isn't. Simply, the level of control an empire has is not possesed by the USA, not to mention, the USA no longer has colonies.

did you forget that Puerto Rico and Guam exist?
oh also Alaska, definitely Alaska

[New haven america]

Way to jump to conclusions my dude.

Do I get a gold medal, then?

Jokes aside, our options in the near-future are (from best to worst):

• American Hegemony (under my ideals)
• American Hegemony (under current American ideals)
• The Status Quo of Two-Hundred-or-So Bickering, Squabbling, Disharmonious Nation-States
• PRC Hegemony
• No Civilization Whatsoever, "Bellum Omnium Contra Omnes" Purge Time

I choose none of the above.

[Nakena]

Do I get a gold medal, then?

Jokes aside, our options in the near-future are (from best to worst):

• American Hegemony (under my ideals)
• American Hegemony (under current American ideals)
• The Status Quo of Two-Hundred-or-So Bickering, Squabbling, Disharmonious Nation-States
• PRC Hegemony
• No Civilization Whatsoever, "Bellum Omnium Contra Omnes" Purge Time

I choose none of the above.

How about an Galactic Empire, that would, by definition presume an unification of Earth at some point prior to its advanced expansion.

[Monsone]

The USA is a confederation of states, like Austo-Hungary. But as a whole nation, it's a superpower and a hegemon; an empire, no. And while you could argue that the USA was and empire, currently it isn't. Simply, the level of control an empire has is not possesed by the USA, not to mention, the USA no longer has colonies.

did you forget that Puerto Rico and Guam exist?

No. They are territories. An example of a colony would be the Philippines under US control, or Puerto Rico before becoming a territory. The reason these aren't colonies is that all citizens in US territories are US citizens. In US terms, a territory is basicaly a state, without all the benefits of being a state.

Also Alaska. that was purchased, and now is a state (49th). And while is was colony and then territory untill 1959, it is now a state.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

Time for our Caesar!

[New haven america]

did you forget that Puerto Rico and Guam exist?

No. They are territories. An example of a colony would be the Philippines under US control, or Puerto Rico before becoming a territory. The reason these aren't colonies is that all citizens in US territories are US citizens. In US terms, a territory is basicaly a state, without all the benefits of being a state.

Actually, the UN still classifies them as colonies.

[Xuloqoia]

The problem is that Bison was not fit to rule. Peace on earth must be established, but not a tyranny. Just institutions are needed for peace on earth to last.

A lot of people (and its not a small number) would consider an american supremacy to be a Tyranny too. I vividly recall the extensive anti-americanism of the Bush years, that seems now somewhat have vanished.

Besides american institutions aren't made for this purpose, and the whole idea of an American Empire is somewhat antithema to the ideals and the ideas of "the constitution" and all that jazz. Wouldn it for Wilson and later WW II and the inheritance of certain faustian spirit and the military industrial complex, things would be somewhat looking different.

I mean, I've already mentioned that plenty of reforms are needed, the precise nature of which I have already elaborated upon in other threads like the RWDT.

Do I get a gold medal, then?

Jokes aside, our options in the near-future are (from best to worst):

• American Hegemony (under my ideals)
• American Hegemony (under current American ideals)
  
• The Status Quo of Two-Hundred-or-So Bickering, Squabbling, Disharmonious Nation-States
• PRC Hegemony
• No Civilization Whatsoever, "Bellum Omnium Contra Omnes" Purge Time

That analysis is not entirely off. Right now it looks strongly as if the 3rd option is becomming more and more likely. The western/american hegemony has fallen.

I'm sorry Nak, but do you mean the "Status Quo of 200 Discordant Nation-States" or do you mean "PRC Hegemony"?

[New haven america]

I choose none of the above.

How about an Galactic Empire, that would, by definition presume an unification of Earth at some point prior to its advanced expansion.

Eh, I'd prefer a Galactic Federation.

[Xuloqoia]

Do I get a gold medal, then?

Jokes aside, our options in the near-future are (from best to worst):

• American Hegemony (under my ideals)
• American Hegemony (under current American ideals)
• The Status Quo of Two-Hundred-or-So Bickering, Squabbling, Disharmonious Nation-States
• PRC Hegemony
• No Civilization Whatsoever, "Bellum Omnium Contra Omnes" Purge Time

I choose none of the above.

And what do you choose, exactly?

[New haven america]

I choose none of the above.

And what do you choose, exactly?

Whatever the hell I feel like choosing.

[Xuloqoia]

And what do you choose, exactly?

Whatever the hell I feel like choosing.

But you chose "none of the above"; hence it'd be best if you state your alternative solution.

[Monsone]

No. They are territories. An example of a colony would be the Philippines under US control, or Puerto Rico before becoming a territory. The reason these aren't colonies is that all citizens in US territories are US citizens. In US terms, a territory is basicaly a state, without all the benefits of being a state.

Actually, the UN still classifies them as colonies.

The same list that categorizes the Falkland Islands (or Islas Malvinas) as colonies? No, it more so is a list regarding the self determination of a reason, not to mention that there has been controversy over calling the US Virgin Islands (USVI) and Puerto Rico colonies due to their political status. And while improvement is clearly necesary, their (Puerto Rico and the USVI's) status is not quite that of a colony.

[Catsfern]

did you forget that Puerto Rico and Guam exist?

No. They are territories. An example of a colony would be the Philippines under US control, or Puerto Rico before becoming a territory. The reason these aren't colonies is that all citizens in US territories are US citizens. In US terms, a territory is basicaly a state, without all the benefits of being a state.

Still they were formally independent entities America just sorta took control over.

And then there Hawaii which Before the US took control of it was a fully sovereign nation that was taken over by military force, colonized by rich american businessmen and after years fully incorporated as a state. even if it now has full rights as a state its still very much a colony

Also Alaska, We bought that from Russia and Sent settlers there en mass, a very empireish thing to do.

[Maple Sryup]

No, and no one is changing mind
Yes I'm American

And by f*cking definition it's a democracy, I know that isn't all the matters but IT'S A DEMOCRACY BY F*CKING DEFINITION

I can't wait for the flood of mad replies to this

[Monsone]

No. They are territories. An example of a colony would be the Philippines under US control, or Puerto Rico before becoming a territory. The reason these aren't colonies is that all citizens in US territories are US citizens. In US terms, a territory is basicaly a state, without all the benefits of being a state.

Still they were formally independent entities America just sorta took control over.

And then there Hawaii which Before the US took control of it was a fully sovereign nation that was taken over by military force, colonized by rich american businessmen and after years fully incorporated as a state. even if it now has full rights as a state its still very much a colony

Also Alaska, We bought that from Russia and Sent settlers there en mass, a very empireish thing to do.

I belive that originaly I stated that the USA was and empire, not is. Also, Puerto Rico and Guam were Spanish before being anexed by the USA. I'd hardly call that independent.

Regarding Alaska, the USA did colonize it, but it is not a colony currently or even for the last 106 years; it is a state (like Ceuta and Melilla in Spain, which are administrative regions).

Hawaii is a whole other issue, and was kinda forced upon us by the rich imigrants from America toppling the Hawaiian monarchy and begging the USA for anexation. After all, the USA had diprlomatic relations with Hawaii until 1898 (when said event above occured).

[Sundiata]

Oh well, America First.

Largely, the Trump Presidency has been an egregious tear upon the moral fibre of the United States. This trend is shameful and frankly, it's making our country weak as the man himself.

A three-time divorced draft-dodging coward.

My idea of America First is tearing down the rotten institutions and laws, then rebuilding it from the ground up.

I see.

In that case, I'm sure we agree on more than we disagree.

[Catsfern]

No, and no one is changing mind
Yes I'm American

And by f*cking definition it's a democracy, I know that isn't all the matters but IT'S A DEMOCRACY MY F*CKING DEFINITION

I can't wait for the flood of mad replies to this

Yes america is a democracy by defenition

de·moc·ra·cy
/dəˈmäkrəsē/
Learn to pronounce
noun
a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives.

But being a democracy does not exclude a nation from being an empire.

Take the British Empire for example, they were the largest empire in toe world at one point, but still had regular elections since 1694.
In fact the whole reason the revolutionary war happened was "Taxation without Representation" as in Elected representation in the British parliament.

[New haven america]

My idea of America First is tearing down the rotten institutions and laws, then rebuilding it from the ground up.

I see.

In that case, I'm sure we agree on more than we disagree.

My vision begins with dismantling the Republican Party and other Conservative Right-Wing groups and parties in the nation, while also removing tax benefits from corporations and the Top 5%.