Right-Wing Discussion Thread XVII: The Snark Enlightenment

[Novus America]

Secularism abs Christianity are not mutually exclusive though. You can have an overwhelmingly Christian society and a secular government.

Do they use the word "secularism" to mean "atheism" or "irreligion"?

Perhaps, but that would be wrong, at least in the American conception of secularism.
State atheism is different than American type secularism, and state atheism actually is mutually exclusive to American style secularism.

[TETistan]

Do they use the word "secularism" to mean "atheism" or "irreligion"?

Perhaps, but that would be wrong, at least in the American conception of secularism.
State atheism is different than American type secularism, and state atheism actually is mutually exclusive to American style secularism.

Right. However "state atheism" and "atheism" are still different concepts.

[Purgatio]

In terms of values the Sinosphere and the secular alt-right are actually pretty close. For example "might makes right" is something most people in China agrees with.

I don't think that's true, but it's kind of irrelevant either way because the Sinosphere existed thousands of years before modern Chinese people did.

I should say I actually think he might have a point here. A lot of the ideas the alt-right has, traditionalism, ethno-nationalism, Law and Order, anti-immigration, 'family values', are all centrist ideas in most countries in the 'Sinosphere' or East Asian cultural sphere, at least in my experience all these values are pretty common for most Chinese-Singaporeans and the Overseas Chinese community in Southeast Asia and in Taiwan (where some relatives on my mother's side still live).

[Napkizemlja]

Homosexuality is literally mentioned twice in scripture and like 5 times in the entire work of the Church fathers, arguably not even that often if you look at the mentions in some of those and analyze them. There's never been a synod on homosexuality, moreover.

And all those times are condemnations or prohibitions.
Additionally, the lack of a synod is no substitute for actual historical practice.

It being condemned does not mean it is a central tenet of the faith.

[TETistan]

In terms of values the Sinosphere and the secular alt-right are actually pretty close. For example "might makes right" is something most people in China agrees with.

I don't think that's true, but it's kind of irrelevant either way because the Sinosphere existed thousands of years before modern Chinese people did.

Sure. However the only times when legitimacy really mattered in China (that is, when China was like Japan) is back during the Spring and Autumn Period. The Warring States period was when legitimacy and political elites were destroyed and raw Machiavellianism rose. Then we got the Leviathan of Qin. That's the end of pluralism and the beginning of a bureaucratic nightmare. Then we got fucking 2,200+ years of Qin-style despotism only temporarily broken by Republic of China.

[Kowani]

And all those times are condemnations or prohibitions.
Additionally, the lack of a synod is no substitute for actual historical practice.

I think you don't quite know what "central tenet" means. It was not considered a topic of great theological import, such that there is almost no debate on it historically.

Perhaps there was no great debate because the position was laid out pretty clearly? It’s not like the nature of Christ, which was left vague.

And all those times are condemnations or prohibitions.
Additionally, the lack of a synod is no substitute for actual historical practice.

It being condemned does not mean it is a central tenet of the faith.

Well. Obedience to God is. God says not to commit homosexual activity.

[Napkizemlja]

I think you don't quite know what "central tenet" means. It was not considered a topic of great theological import, such that there is almost no debate on it historically.

Perhaps there was no great debate because the position was laid out pretty clearly? It’s not like the nature of Christ, which was left vague.

It being condemned does not mean it is a central tenet of the faith.

Well. Obedience to God is. God says not to commit homosexual activity.

Obedience and loving God encompasses many different things, not just homosexuality. Things such as giving to the poor, taking care of the sick, faithfulness in marriage, etc are talked about far more often in both scripture and Church Tradition.

[United Muscovite Nations]

I think you don't quite know what "central tenet" means. It was not considered a topic of great theological import, such that there is almost no debate on it historically.

Perhaps there was no great debate because the position was laid out pretty clearly? It’s not like the nature of Christ, which was left vague.

No, it was because nobody really cared. Nobody really wrote about it, and when they did they wrote about it with ideas that weren't necessarily accurate because they condemned it based on its comparison with other activities.

[Neko-koku]

Norms only matter in contexts where powers are not sufficiently concentrated to the point of making enforcement of norm violations by at least certain people impossible. China due to its large population, large size and high average IQ is one of the places where norm policing fails often enough to make completely ignoring all norms (the Zhang Xianzhong strategy) sometimes viable. That's very awful because norms sometimes fail, people know that they do fail and that people who don't have a backup "Machiavellian mode" available tend to perish when such modes are actually required for survival which cause most people to be able to (and actually) turn on Machiavellian mode...

[Neko-koku]

Perhaps there was no great debate because the position was laid out pretty clearly? It’s not like the nature of Christ, which was left vague.

Well. Obedience to God is. God says not to commit homosexual activity.

Obedience and loving God encompasses many different things, not just homosexuality. Things such as giving to the poor, taking care of the sick, faithfulness in marriage, etc are talked about far more often in both scripture and Church Tradition.

This is why I actually lump you guys together with socialists and humanists. You guys are very different from Nazis and other Social Darwinists such as me.

P.S. Ironically both the Christian belief that Satan is the lord of the world and the belief among certain irreligious people that the universe is amoral are consistent with what we have observed from the universe..for the universe IS a harsh and cruel place.

P.S.S It is also objectively true that any form of redistribution of either the Christian or soc lib kind causes more poverty. However since you Christians don't believe that you are of the world anyway (you consider it Satanic, we consider it Darwinist, these two words do describe the same phenomenon) it doesn't matter to you. Soc libs on the other hand.....

[Totally Not OEP]

I'm home kids

[United Muscovite Nations]

I'm home kids

Dad, where's mom?

[Neko-koku]

I'm home kids

Dad, where's mom?

Bro, where is the koshka?

[Neko-koku]

Anyway I wish all of you guys, Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, Shinto, secular etc the best.

I'm in fact not a nasty dude. I'm actually also someone who wants to fix nastiness of the world. However I don't think we have enough resources to be nice yet. If we are prematurely nice we will probably end up getting destroyed. Without humans what is human ethics good for?

I don't think we have time to wait any more. Carbon sequestration needs to start now. Fusion power needs to be developed. The population of Sub-Saharan Africa can't be allowed to explode without limits.

[Totally Not OEP]

I'm home kids

Dad, where's mom?

About that.....

[Cappuccina]

Anyway I wish all of you guys, Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, Shinto, secular etc the best.

I'm in fact not a nasty dude. I'm actually also someone who wants to fix nastiness of the world. However I don't think we have enough resources to be nice yet. If we are prematurely nice we will probably end up getting destroyed. Without humans what is human ethics good for?

I don't think we have time to wait any more. Carbon sequestration needs to start now. Fusion power needs to be developed. The population of Sub-Saharan Africa can't be allowed to explode without limits.

Humanity will never be "nice", regardless of how much resources they do or don't have.

[Neko-koku]

Anyway I wish all of you guys, Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, Shinto, secular etc the best.

I'm in fact not a nasty dude. I'm actually also someone who wants to fix nastiness of the world. However I don't think we have enough resources to be nice yet. If we are prematurely nice we will probably end up getting destroyed. Without humans what is human ethics good for?

I don't think we have time to wait any more. Carbon sequestration needs to start now. Fusion power needs to be developed. The population of Sub-Saharan Africa can't be allowed to explode without limits.

Humanity will never be "nice", regardless of how much resources they do or don't have.

Humanity is already too nice to deal with challenges we are facing.

[Nakena]

Humanity will never be "nice", regardless of how much resources they do or don't have.

Humanity is already too nice to deal with challenges we are facing.

Sometimes you need some not-so-nice people with a different moral set to get the good stuff done ^^

[Neko-koku]

Humanity is already too nice to deal with challenges we are facing.

Sometimes you need some not-so-nice people with a different moral set to get the good stuff done ^^

Yes, sadly. For example aid to Sub-Saharan Africa. Now Christianity, Islam and humanism all support such aid.

For the record I'm not actually an East Kekistanist. Hell I don't even mind aiding Australoids not because I like them a lot but simply because there aren't too many of them. In the worse case we can just feed everyone in Papua New Guinea or something. They only have about 8.25 million people now anyway. However we really can't afford to feed everyone in Sub-Saharan Africa if its population keeps exploding and its economy keeps underperforming. I really don't want humanity to eventually have to face the moral dilemma of either feeding SSA & lowering everyone else's living standards significantly or letting more than 100 million folks in SSA starve to death.

I'm just not someone who likes to signal virtues or allegiance and then ignore the actual problems. Eventually we will have to face the problems together as a species no matter whether it is genocidal AI, climate change, fuel depletion, Sub-Saharan African overpopulation or alien invasion. These are all fucking problems and they need to be solved ASAP.

[Cappuccina]

Humanity will never be "nice", regardless of how much resources they do or don't have.

Humanity is already too nice to deal with challenges we are facing.

In what way is humanity too nice?

[TETistan]

Humanity is already too nice to deal with challenges we are facing.

In what way is humanity too nice?

I think you know. If your tribe has no WMD then you owe your very existence to WMD owners not having exterminated your tribe yet.

[Old Tyrannia]

There's nothing wrong with anti-Catholicism.

Religious tolerance is always preferable to intolerance. Not only is intolerance evil, it creates a less effective society.

Society should not tolerate things that are dangerous to its fabric. Regardless, disliking Catholicism is not the same as being intolerant of it. I tolerate the Roman Catholic Church just fine, but that doesn't mean that I have to like or agree with it or its membership.

There's nothing wrong with anti-Catholicism.

Fun fact: the Catholic Church in Britain has higher attendance than the Anglican Communion in Britain

Christ never said that the truth would be popular, and cult movements are historically very good at retaining membership.

So in other words, your approach to dealing with your country's deep-rooted race issues is to cover your ears, sing "lalala" and pretend they don't exist and hope it'll all sort itself out?

No. My approach is to taking a different approach.
The current approach is not working.

Also we can address inequality by supporting the poorest areas.

Why should a millionaire who is black get an advantage over a poor Asian?
And giving them that advantage only makes racial issues worse.

We're not discussing economic inequality here; you wanted to abolish Black History Month. Black History Month exists in the first place because black history and the contributions of black people to the United States has historically been neglected and ignored by wider society, which is a big part of why racists like Neko-koku are so dismissive of African cultures and their achievements. If you ban Black History Month whilst ignoring the underlying issues that led to its creation in the first place, all you are doing is perpetuating the marginalisation of your country's minorities.

Sometimes you need some not-so-nice people with a different moral set to get the good stuff done ^^

Yes, sadly. For example aid to Sub-Saharan Africa. Now Christianity, Islam and humanism all support such aid.

For the record I'm not actually an East Kekistanist. Hell I don't even mind aiding Australoids not because I like them a lot but simply because there aren't too many of them. In the worse case we can just feed everyone in Papua New Guinea or something. They only have about 8.25 million people now anyway. However we really can't afford to feed everyone in Sub-Saharan Africa if its population keeps exploding and its economy keeps underperforming. I really don't want humanity to eventually have to face the moral dilemma of either feeding SSA & lowering everyone else's living standards significantly or letting more than 100 million folks in SSA starve to death.

I'm just not someone who likes to signal virtues or allegiance and then ignore the actual problems. Eventually we will have to face the problems together as a species no matter whether it is genocidal AI, climate change, fuel depletion, Sub-Saharan African overpopulation or alien invasion. These are all fucking problems and they need to be solved ASAP.

Sub-Saharan Africa has a smaller population than either China or India despite being substantially larger than both put together.

Quit it with the "East Kekistan" nonsense. No one is interested in your meme ideology, or in your blatant racism against people of African descent.

[Cappuccina]

In what way is humanity too nice?

I think you know. If your tribe has no WMD then you owe your very existence to WMD owners not having exterminated your tribe yet.

Those WMD owners have other WMD owners to worry about.

[Cappuccina]

Sometimes you need some not-so-nice people with a different moral set to get the good stuff done ^^

Yes, sadly. For example aid to Sub-Saharan Africa. Now Christianity, Islam and humanism all support such aid.

For the record I'm not actually an East Kekistanist. Hell I don't even mind aiding Australoids not because I like them a lot but simply because there aren't too many of them. In the worse case we can just feed everyone in Papua New Guinea or something. They only have about 8.25 million people now anyway. However we really can't afford to feed everyone in Sub-Saharan Africa if its population keeps exploding and its economy keeps underperforming. I really don't want humanity to eventually have to face the moral dilemma of either feeding SSA & lowering everyone else's living standards significantly or letting more than 100 million folks in SSA starve to death.

I'm just not someone who likes to signal virtues or allegiance and then ignore the actual problems. Eventually we will have to face the problems together as a species no matter whether it is genocidal AI, climate change, fuel depletion, Sub-Saharan African overpopulation or alien invasion. These are all fucking problems and they need to be solved ASAP.

SSA is undergoing its modernization process like many other areas in the past century or so had done, that includes an initial population increase.You talk about African people like they're wildlife to be culled or some shit.

[Jakker]

Yes because Neko is a spergy white nationalist.

Your use of spergy brought this into warnable territory for me. *** Warned for Flaming ***