Candensia wrote:I see the reference in option two, and it really has good comedic potential. Can you sell it more?
As in, make it more pronounced? I'll give it a try!
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by Daarwyrth » Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:28 am
Candensia wrote:I see the reference in option two, and it really has good comedic potential. Can you sell it more?
by Daarwyrth » Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:58 am
Candensia wrote:I see the reference in option two, and it really has good comedic potential. Can you sell it more?
by Thurlingen » Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:21 am
Daarwyrth wrote:Candensia wrote:I see the reference in option two, and it really has good comedic potential. Can you sell it more?
How about this:
[OPTION 2] "Conceal? Don't feel? Don't let them know?" asks gay rights activist Elsa @@RANDOMLASTNAME@@, her ice-white hair slightly singed. "Well, now you know!" she exclaims, tearing off her coat, revealing a sparkly rainbow-colored dress. "Let it go, let it go! Don't hold the gay back anymore!"
[EFFECT 2] divorce rates are increasing as citizens come out of the closet in droves
by Daarwyrth » Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:00 am
by Daarwyrth » Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:54 pm
by Australian rePublic » Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:40 pm
by Daarwyrth » Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:44 pm
Australian rePublic wrote:Why is the only option which opposes this the one which makes him look like a ranging homophobe?why can't leader oppose being made to kiss the same gender without being a homophobe?
by Daarwyrth » Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:50 pm
by Makdon » Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:20 pm
Daarwyrth wrote:Australian rePublic wrote:Why is the only option which opposes this the one which makes him look like a ranging homophobe?why can't leader oppose being made to kiss the same gender without being a homophobe?
Leader is not made to kiss anyone? It's photoshopped images of leader, not actual footage of leader kissing someone of the same gender. Surely you see the difference here?
The nation has a homophobic status quo, as set by the validity. What else do you expect the response to be from a homophobic country? The option is written in light of the feedback I had gotten, which encouraged me to write it up this way. Option 3 is the more moderate option in this case, but if you don't want to come across as homophobic, there's option 2 or 4
by SherpDaWerp » Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:30 pm
by Daarwyrth » Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:00 pm
SherpDaWerp wrote:I'm not sure if this is intentional, but consider the @@LEADER@@ macro in the title.
"Come Give Your Leader A Kiss!" without the macro sounds fine, but for me, with the macro, it would be "Come Give Your Charles Dexter A Kiss!" which sounds a little bit off. I can kinda see where the second one could be intentional and work fine, but it still sounds kinda weird to me.
Makdon wrote:Daarwyrth wrote:
Leader is not made to kiss anyone? It's photoshopped images of leader, not actual footage of leader kissing someone of the same gender. Surely you see the difference here?
The nation has a homophobic status quo, as set by the validity. What else do you expect the response to be from a homophobic country? The option is written in light of the feedback I had gotten, which encouraged me to write it up this way. Option 3 is the more moderate option in this case, but if you don't want to come across as homophobic, there's option 2 or 4
I think it might be good to have an option where the leader oppose such images, limiting free speech, while still supporting the LGBT community. I would give the players more freedom without, I think, messing up the narrative
by SherpDaWerp » Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:07 pm
Daarwyrth wrote:SherpDaWerp wrote:I'm not sure if this is intentional, but consider the @@LEADER@@ macro in the title.
"Come Give Your Leader A Kiss!" without the macro sounds fine, but for me, with the macro, it would be "Come Give Your Charles Dexter A Kiss!" which sounds a little bit off. I can kinda see where the second one could be intentional and work fine, but it still sounds kinda weird to me.
And what if I'd remove "your" from the title? So it would be "Come Give Leader A Kiss!"? In your case for example it would be "Come Give Charles Dexter A Kiss!", would it sound weird to you still? I wouldn't mind if it sounded awkward because it's meant to go along the "come give your uncle a kiss!" trope, which I am sure made many children feel awkward haha. But if it doesn't work, then I can change it to Leader instead of the macro.
by Daarwyrth » Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:13 pm
SherpDaWerp wrote:Daarwyrth wrote:
And what if I'd remove "your" from the title? So it would be "Come Give Leader A Kiss!"? In your case for example it would be "Come Give Charles Dexter A Kiss!", would it sound weird to you still? I wouldn't mind if it sounded awkward because it's meant to go along the "come give your uncle a kiss!" trope, which I am sure made many children feel awkward haha. But if it doesn't work, then I can change it to Leader instead of the macro.
Yeah, getting rid of the your would 100% work great. As another example, if the nation's leader was "holy emperor steve", the title would appear as "Come Give Holy Emperor Steve A Kiss!". Other than that, this issue is looking solid
by Bears Armed » Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:27 am
by Daarwyrth » Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:19 am
Bears Armed wrote:You're presuming that kisses between adults must be sexual? there are RL cultures where it's just a perfectly acceptable non-sexual form of greeting between adults of the same sex.
There might even be some cultures where, due to sexual prudery, it's more acceptable between adults of the same sex than it is between adults [who aren't married to each other] of opposite sexes...
by Daarwyrth » Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:12 pm
by Bears Armed » Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:31 am
Daarwyrth wrote:Bears Armed wrote:You're presuming that kisses between adults must be sexual? there are RL cultures where it's just a perfectly acceptable non-sexual form of greeting between adults of the same sex.
There might even be some cultures where, due to sexual prudery, it's more acceptable between adults of the same sex than it is between adults [who aren't married to each other] of opposite sexes...
No not at all, I don't mean to presume that all kisses between adults are inherently sexual. I know that for example in France people greet one another by kissing on the cheek, no matter the gender. But the photoshopped photos are used in a specific context, namely, to highlight low LGBT rights in a specific country and to make it more acceptable in the given nation.
I'm not sure I am getting your criticism here, what is it exactly that you're trying to point out?
by Daarwyrth » Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:45 am
Bears Armed wrote:Daarwyrth wrote:
No not at all, I don't mean to presume that all kisses between adults are inherently sexual. I know that for example in France people greet one another by kissing on the cheek, no matter the gender. But the photoshopped photos are used in a specific context, namely, to highlight low LGBT rights in a specific country and to make it more acceptable in the given nation.
I'm not sure I am getting your criticism here, what is it exactly that you're trying to point out?
just that, even with your specified validity, there are going to be people -- IC as well as OOC -- for whom this "issue" doesn't make sense, and would automatically be dismissed. Mind you, I'm not sure whether there's any alternative wording for which that wouldn't also be the case...
by Bears Armed » Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:59 am
Daarwyrth wrote:Bears Armed wrote:just that, even with your specified validity, there are going to be people -- IC as well as OOC -- for whom this "issue" doesn't make sense, and would automatically be dismissed. Mind you, I'm not sure whether there's any alternative wording for which that wouldn't also be the case...
But I don't understand why it wouldn't make sense? A particular group of society is being excluded, in this case the LGBT community, so to garner attention to their cause and their status of being oppressed in @@NAME@@, they're photoshopping pictures of the nation's head of state kissing members of the same gender. In a country that has a homophobic status quo that would definitely garner attention and be debated.
by Sanctaria » Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:09 am
Bears Armed wrote:Daarwyrth wrote:
But I don't understand why it wouldn't make sense? A particular group of society is being excluded, in this case the LGBT community, so to garner attention to their cause and their status of being oppressed in @@NAME@@, they're photoshopping pictures of the nation's head of state kissing members of the same gender. In a country that has a homophobic status quo that would definitely garner attention and be debated.
If kissing members of the same-sex sex a standard greeting in @@NAME@@ then the homophobes there aren't going to see anything wrong about those photoshopped pictures in the first place, are they?
by Daarwyrth » Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:41 am
by Daarwyrth » Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:00 pm
by Trotterdam » Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:03 am
I still say it's the similarity to existing issues. We already have issues about homosexuality, about artists drawing offensive stuff, and about people photoshopping images of @@LEADER@@. Details that would be unimportant in a more original issue become rife for nitpicking when they're the only thing separating your draft from existing issues.Daarwyrth wrote:Do others get the same amount of criticism/nitpicking? I have a feeling I'm drawing in an unusual amount of it for some reason. Is it the LGBT related subject of the draft?
by Daarwyrth » Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:06 am
Trotterdam wrote:I still say it's the similarity to existing issues. We already have issues about homosexuality, about artists drawing offensive stuff, and about people photoshopping images of @@LEADER@@. Details that would be unimportant in a more original issue become rife for nitpicking when they're the only thing separating your draft from existing issues.Daarwyrth wrote:Do others get the same amount of criticism/nitpicking? I have a feeling I'm drawing in an unusual amount of it for some reason. Is it the LGBT related subject of the draft?
As for me, I've picked most of the nits that I care to, and in the end it's not up to me to decide whether your issue makes it into the game or not. I only really have one more to add: Even if @@LEADER@@ has no problems with homosexuals, and even if @@LEADER@@ actually is homosexual, he/she could still be legitimately peeved at being drawn kissing someone that is not, in fact, his/her lover.
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