Tsalagi Nation Sends First Congressional Delegate

[Internationalist Bastard]

You do know what nation this is right?

Cherokee.

And you know they were forced off their lands right? And put on a death march?

[Costa Fierro]

What exactly is the point of a non-voting member of Congress?

[Munkcestrian Republic]

You do know what nation this is right?

Cherokee.

Amazing that a nation that obsesses over the precise details of its ancestry has this thing where there is literally no difference between the Lenape and the Cherokee.

[Loben The 2nd]

Cherokee.

And you know they were forced off their lands right? And put on a death march?

Death march or war, the end result would be been the same

[Loben The 2nd]

Cherokee.

Amazing that a nation that obsesses over the precise details of its ancestry has this thing where there is literally no difference between the Lenape and the Cherokee.

What?

[Loben The 2nd]

What exactly is the point of a non-voting member of Congress?

DNC PR.

[Internationalist Bastard]

What exactly is the point of a non-voting member of Congress?

Basically it’s so that you can shout really loud at them in your interests
DC used to be the same way, it’s dumb but better than nothing

[Internationalist Bastard]

And you know they were forced off their lands right? And put on a death march?

Death march or war, the end result would be been the same

Genocide is bad. Neither is actually textbook racist comments

[Internationalist Bastard]

Amazing that a nation that obsesses over the precise details of its ancestry has this thing where there is literally no difference between the Lenape and the Cherokee.

What?

Manhattan was sold by the Lenape, a people in New York. Meaning they aren’t the Cherokee

[Munkcestrian Republic]

What?

Manhattan was sold by the Lenape, a people in New York. Meaning they aren’t the Cherokee

"sold" is an, er, inaccurate word given the circumstances.

And the people who actually "sold" it didn't even have control over the entire island, so.

[The Brytish Isles]

Well, this is most definitely wonderful news. I hope the other First Nations in the US do the same, they deserve it after all, imo.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Manhattan was sold by the Lenape, a people in New York. Meaning they aren’t the Cherokee

"sold" is an, er, inaccurate word given the circumstances.

And the people who actually "sold" it didn't even have control over the entire island, so.

My understanding, which is limited I’ll admit, was that almost nobody lived on it and then some random tribe said it Dutch for a shit ton of trade goods

[Ifreann]

What exactly is the point of a non-voting member of Congress?

To represent their constituency by, you know, talking about their situation and needs and interests and what have you.

[North German Realm]

What exactly is the point of a non-voting member of Congress?

To represent their constituency by, you know, talking about their situation and needs and interests and what have you.

But what good is representation if they can't actually vote?

[Ifreann]

To represent their constituency by, you know, talking about their situation and needs and interests and what have you.

But what good is representation if they can't actually vote?

Those things I just said.

[North German Realm]

But what good is representation if they can't actually vote?

Those things I just said.

I didn't ask what it is good for. I asked what's literally the use. Talking about their situations, needs, et al, means jack shit when they don't even have a vote among the many where legislature is concerned. It's nothing but a non-binding PR stunt.

[Ifreann]

Those things I just said.

I didn't ask what it is good for. I asked what's literally the use. Talking about their situations, needs, et al, means jack shit when they don't even have a vote among the many where legislature is concerned. It's nothing but a non-binding PR stunt.

I presume you feel the same way about calls to contact your members of Congress about some issue or other. What is the value of telling the government what problems you face and what you need to solve them if you don't then get to vote in the legislature?

[Purgatio]

Why do the Native American Nations need specific delegates to Congress? Aren't they eligible to vote in regular Congressional elections? Why does being a member of a particular ethnicity entitle you to special protections or provisions in democratic elections?

[Ifreann]

Why do the Native American Nations need specific delegates to Congress?

Because the US government signed treaties saying so while conquering them.

[Purgatio]

Why do the Native American Nations need specific delegates to Congress?

Because the US government signed treaties saying so while conquering them.

The Native American Nations are not States in the Westphalian sense, hence any treaties with them do not bind the US State in the international legal order.

[Ifreann]

Because the US government signed treaties saying so while conquering them.

The Native American Nations are not States in the Westphalian sense, hence any treaties with them do not bind the US State in the international legal order.

Per the US Constitution, treaties to which the United States is party shall, along with the Constitution itself and laws made pursuant to the Constitution, be the supreme law of the land. International legal order doesn't really come into it, America's own laws require it to abide by treaties.

[Purgatio]

The Native American Nations are not States in the Westphalian sense, hence any treaties with them do not bind the US State in the international legal order.

Per the US Constitution, treaties to which the United States is party shall, along with the Constitution itself and laws made pursuant to the Constitution, be the supreme law of the land. International legal order doesn't really come into it, America's own laws require it to abide by treaties.

If you read the dicta of Missouri v. Holland carefully, in the section where Associate Justice Holmes goes to the question of the correct interpretation of the Treaty Clause, it is clear from his reasoning that he and the Supreme Court view the Treaty Clause as essentially holding the same meaning as a treaty in the international legal sense (ie between States).

Otherwise, any contract signed by the US government is a treaty. Every contract signed with a federal contractor is a 'treaty'. This obviously isn't true. A 'treaty' is a binding contract between States, and the different Native American tribes and nations are not States and lack the legal competence to enter into international treaties.

[Cetacea]

Those things I just said.

I didn't ask what it is good for. I asked what's literally the use. Talking about their situations, needs, et al, means jack shit when they don't even have a vote among the many where legislature is concerned. It's nothing but a non-binding PR stunt.

Quite literally a PR stunt for Puerto Rico
but the point in the cases of Samoa and Guam is that the delegate gets close to the decision makers and is allowed to join committees and speak in congress. They get to have a chance to influence the members that do have voting power - its not the ideal situation but it is a good opportunity

[Kowani]

Per the US Constitution, treaties to which the United States is party shall, along with the Constitution itself and laws made pursuant to the Constitution, be the supreme law of the land. International legal order doesn't really come into it, America's own laws require it to abide by treaties.

If you read the dicta of Missouri v. Holland carefully, in the section where Associate Justice Holmes goes to the question of the correct interpretation of the Treaty Clause, it is clear from his reasoning that he and the Supreme Court view the Treaty Clause as essentially holding the same meaning as a treaty in the international legal sense (ie between States).

Otherwise, any contract signed by the US government is a treaty. Every contract signed with a federal contractor is a 'treaty'. This obviously isn't true. A 'treaty' is a binding contract between States, and the different Native American tribes and nations are not States and lack the legal competence to enter into international treaties.

Except it’s long been a part of Constitutional Law that the tribes have a “limited sovereignty.” One of the parts of said sovereignty include the ability to make treaties with the United States.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Scrap the treaties and turn them into states. The people on these reservations shouldn’t be living in limbo land

Strongly disagree. It's not their country and they don't necessarily want to be a part of it.