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by Nova Cyberia » Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:39 pm
by Napkizemlja » Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:19 pm
Hardly, the Crusaders actually gave the Byzantines space to recover under the Komnenos dynasty and at times the crusader realms and the Byzantines were quite close allies. The banks at the time were merchant banks and barely had developed, not to mention being dominated by the Italian Jewish community, hardly something that the 11th century Papacy is going to go to war on behalf of. It was the crusades themselves that stimulated more refined forms of banking in order to finance the expeditions, with the primary institutions being holy orders like the Knights Templar and Knights Hospitaller. The Italian merchant dynasties commonly associated with medieval Italy didn't start having their influence felt until the 13th century and would not come into their political prime until the 14th century.Nea Byzantia wrote:Napkizemlja wrote:That is a given but to say that religion wasn't the driving force is wrong. The main non-religious factor was Pope Urban II attempt at quelling the numerous petty wars between knights and the lower nobility as well as attempting to increase Papal authority on the nobility of Europe.
Religion was a driving factor on the surface. On a political level, the Pope wanted to bring the Orthodox to heel; and the Italian banking clans wanted a piece of the Silk Road and the economic prosperity of the East.
by The Liberated Territories » Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:14 pm
by Salus Maior » Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:17 pm
The Liberated Territories wrote:nb the only good crusade was the fourth crusade.
Venetia delenda est
byzboos get out
by Jack Thomas Lang » Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:18 pm
Salus Maior wrote:That you're a racist and a xenophobe that adheres to a bullshit ideology?
by Salus Maior » Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:20 pm
by Benuty » Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:30 pm
Salus Maior wrote:Jack Thomas Lang wrote:Surely you're not that humourless? I know I criticised OT for getting too worked up over people joking about Anglicans, but this is something else.
Calling Africans "darkies" and then praising German atrocities against Baltics doesn't make for a good impression.
Not everything can be retracted by saying "It's a joke, bro!". If you don't believe in those things, maybe don't say them.
by Jack Thomas Lang » Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:30 pm
Salus Maior wrote:Calling Africans "darkies" and then praising German atrocities against Baltics doesn't make for a good impression.
Not everything can be retracted by saying "It's a joke, bro!". If you don't believe in those things, maybe don't say them.
by Benuty » Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:31 pm
by Locus Praemonstratus » Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:45 pm
Nea Byzantia wrote:Fahran wrote:The Pope actually excommunicated those who participated in the ill-fated 5th Crusade if I recall correctly.
You're thinking of the Fourth Crusade, and the excommunication of the sackers of Constantinople was just some political kabuki to keep the critics at home quiet. The Pontifex Maximus had no problem profiting off of the cheap shot to Eastern Rome.
Saint Augustine of Hippo wrote:Can any praise be worthy of the Lord’s majesty? How magnificent his strength? How inscrutable His wisdom! Man is one of your creatures, Lord, and his instinct is to praise you. (Confessions, Book I, pg. 1)
by The Liberated Territories » Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:50 pm
by Salus Maior » Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:20 pm
Jack Thomas Lang wrote:Salus Maior wrote:Calling Africans "darkies" and then praising German atrocities against Baltics doesn't make for a good impression.
Not everything can be retracted by saying "It's a joke, bro!". If you don't believe in those things, maybe don't say them.
I'm talking about the Know-Nothing joke, which I think was incredibly obvious. It seems to me that you did know that, and just used it as a beating stick for my other comments. I don't appreciate that. If you don't like what I said, then say it, rather than mischaracterise my position or wilfully misinterpret what I said.
by Hanafuridake » Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:33 pm
Suriyanakhon's alt, finally found my old account's password李贽 wrote:There is nothing difficult about becoming a sage, and nothing false about transcending the world of appearances.
by Jack Thomas Lang » Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:36 pm
Salus Maior wrote:I didn't take your claim to be a "Know Nothing" seriously. But I assumed you saying you were a Nativist was a true statement. Likewise I believe that is a bullshit ideology.
by Salus Maior » Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:46 pm
by Jack Thomas Lang » Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:58 pm
Salus Maior wrote:Then why say so? What's the joke?
by The Liberated Territories » Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:04 pm
by Luminesa » Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:05 pm
by Kowani » Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:13 pm
by Bear Stearns » Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:36 pm
Jack Thomas Lang wrote:Salus Maior wrote:Then why say so? What's the joke?
It's silly that I have to explain the joke, but here goes...
Bear Stearns posted a pic of Bill Cutting, a character from the movie "Gangs of New York" played by Daniel Day-Lewis. He's a nativist Prot gang leader and an expy of real Know-Nothing and gang leader Bill Poole. I don't have to tell you that Daniel Day-Lewis nails the role, and the joke was a variant of "I'm a Simple Man", because I like Daniel Day-Lewis. Just put a movie appropriate spin on it.
by The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord » Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:51 pm
Bear Stearns wrote:Jack Thomas Lang wrote:It's silly that I have to explain the joke, but here goes...
Bear Stearns posted a pic of Bill Cutting, a character from the movie "Gangs of New York" played by Daniel Day-Lewis. He's a nativist Prot gang leader and an expy of real Know-Nothing and gang leader Bill Poole. I don't have to tell you that Daniel Day-Lewis nails the role, and the joke was a variant of "I'm a Simple Man", because I like Daniel Day-Lewis. Just put a movie appropriate spin on it.
Also, 19th Century American nativist were just cooler than 21st Century ones, even if the immigration they were fighting against seems rather trivial when compared to today's numbers.
by FelrikTheDeleted » Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:01 pm
by Napkizemlja » Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:08 pm
by FelrikTheDeleted » Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:19 pm
Napkizemlja wrote:Tbh the greatest defense of Christendom was the Battle of Lechfeld in 955, when King Otto the Great of Germany, and later Holy Roman Emperor, beat back the pagan hordes of Hungary. Stick that into your goulash you horse fetishizing bastards.
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