Israel denies entry to Reps. Omar and Tlaib

[Otira]

You don't need to speak so condescendingly to Vass.

emotions clearly run strong in this topic because unlike trickle down economics or your favorites music genre, this literally involves people dying. There are people dying because of an ethnic conflict that didn't need to happen but did.

I get that but Fahren is treating Vass like an idiot who owes him something for "evoking persecution." It's insulting.

[Rojava Free State]

emotions clearly run strong in this topic because unlike trickle down economics or your favorites music genre, this literally involves people dying. There are people dying because of an ethnic conflict that didn't need to happen but did.

Trickledown economics also involves people dying.

Okay, focus on the thing I said about music

We aren't debating whether van gogh's starry starry night was a masterpiece or disasterpiece. We're debating many different points about Israel

[Nakena]

emotions clearly run strong in this topic because unlike trickle down economics or your favorites music genre, this literally involves people dying. There are people dying because of an ethnic conflict that didn't need to happen but did.

Trickledown economics also involves people dying.

As long it is you whos on top and doing the trickling down it isn't you. :^)

[Kowani]

Trickledown economics also involves people dying.

Okay, focus on the thing I said about music

We aren't debating whether van gogh's starry starry night was a masterpiece or disasterpiece. We're debating many different points about Israel

“Disasterpiece” is my new favorite word.

Trickledown economics also involves people dying.

As long it is you whos on top and doing the trickling down it isn't you. :^)

Kinky.

[Cappuccina]

I'm rather sure that's definitely not how Christianity works, lol. Those guys are practically Christian Daesh.

If there is a state (e.g. Neko-koku) that promotes individualism and protects women's rights and children's rights do you consider it hostile to Muslims?

Disagreement and hostility are different things. It'd also depend on what you're referencing when you say either individualism or women's rights.

[United States of Americanas]

This is the same Israel that is snowflake triggered by the pretty much peaceful BDS movement. Not really a surprise when Bibi is known to kiss Donnie's fat orange ass.

Israel is screwed. They named a train station after the orange menace and now a town.

They now ban our Democrats from entry? Sounds like Israel is being run by Trump cultists!

It’s time to sanction and divest from Israel. We should have never been involved with them. Happy to support the BDS movement.

[Rojava Free State]

emotions clearly run strong in this topic because unlike trickle down economics or your favorites music genre, this literally involves people dying. There are people dying because of an ethnic conflict that didn't need to happen but did.

I get that but Fahren is treating Vass like an idiot who owes him something for "evoking persecution." It's insulting.

I'm pretty sure that Fahren is a Sephardic Jew and is looking at this from a historical perspective. He was probably raised with the stories of historical anti-Semitism and has come to believe that any non jew could be a potential threat, just like how a person raised in a household with klansmen parents may view any black man as a potential threat. To him, our criticism of Israel reminds him of historical prejudice of the past and he thinks without an israel, the Jewish people, his people, cannot survive.

Even if all that were true about the Jews needing israel, we as non jews have rights too. You can't shoot me just for being a brown man. I'm a human being. Those people in Palestine are humans too. They are men, women and kids. They're fathers, brothers, sisters, grandparents, cousins, aunts and uncles. Their homes should not be bulldozed to make way for Jewish settlers. Their children should not be treated as potential enemies and shot during a war in Gaza. White phosphorous shouldn't rain down on them. when I talk about their lives mattering, I'm not saying Jewish lives don't matter. They do matter, and so do the lives of Palestinians, and the Lebanese and Americans and Egyptians and everyone else.

[Rojava Free State]

This is the same Israel that is snowflake triggered by the pretty much peaceful BDS movement. Not really a surprise when Bibi is known to kiss Donnie's fat orange ass.

Israel is screwed. They named a train station after the orange menace and now a town.

They now ban our Democrats from entry? Sounds like Israel is being run by Trump cultists!

It’s time to sanction and divest from Israel. We should have never been involved with them. Happy to support the BDS movement.

I'm a member of the BDS movement myself. As far as I'm concerned I'm opened to dialogue but Israel needs to sit down and want to talk. This can end when every one is willing to actually have a discussion instead of throwing around words such as antisemitism and trying to silence debate

[Fahran]

I get that but Fahren is treating Vass like an idiot who owes him something for "evoking persecution." It's insulting.

I'm a touch irritated at the ability to overlook context that has been exhibited here today, especially by people who will routinely point to the context when it relates to discrimination/persecution against LGBT+ people or people of color. And, yes, Vass should offer an explanation given that she has compared the American government to the Nazi regime in the past and yet is seemingly not able to pick up a blatant dog whistle against Jews. It beggars belief. If you don't want me to act condescending, perhaps don't argue like you're ignorant - because I know full well y'all aren't.

And I'm a she.

[Rojava Free State]

What?!?

That's a topic related to some factions of Christianity. You might not get the context. Basically Christians generally believe that Jesus (who you call Issa) died on the cross (I know that according to Islam he didn't) and will come to Planet Earth again (where Christianity and Islam agree).

Some Christian factions believe that Israel-induced WWIII can bring about the Christian End Times, hence they support aggressive Israeli actions not because they actually give a shit about Jews but because they want an apocalyptic war.

Many evangelical Christians believe that the apocalypse can only commence once all the jews are back in Israel

This is why I think they're crazy and the Zionists have an easy time manipulating them as a result

[Fahran]

I would say there's a fifth column of zionists, both Jewish and Christian as well. I don't view this as a conflict between non jews and jews. I view it as a conflict between us and a government that treats us in an inferior fashion. It's kinda like how black people in brixton during the brixton riots viewed their conflict as being against the police and not against their white neighbors

Calling them a fifth column implies that Israel is an enemy. To be honest, I would try to avoid likening anyone to a fifth column since I can slide that shoe right off their foot and right onto yours. It's an ugly way to debate. It implies that the other side isn't loyal to our society and doesn't care about our society - and it's often quite prejudicial. I mean... you can agree that Israel gets too many passes and that America's government is too pro-Zionist, which is still a weird thing to say, without insinuating that large groups of people are basically traitors.

[Vassenor]

I get that but Fahren is treating Vass like an idiot who owes him something for "evoking persecution." It's insulting.

I'm a touch irritated at the ability to overlook context that has been exhibited here today, especially by people who will routinely point to the context when it relates to discrimination/persecution against LGBT+ people or people of color. And, yes, Vass should offer an explanation given that she has compared the American government to the Nazi regime in the past and yet is seemingly not able to pick up a blatant dog whistle against Jews. It beggars belief. If you don't want me to act condescending, perhaps don't argue like you're ignorant - because I know full well y'all aren't.

And I'm a she.

I'm not following your logic whereby "Nazis = bad ∴ Israel cannot be criticised for political action".

[Otira]

I get that but Fahren is treating Vass like an idiot who owes him something for "evoking persecution." It's insulting.

I'm pretty sure that Fahren is a Sephardic Jew and is looking at this from a historical perspective. He was probably raised with the stories of historical anti-Semitism and has come to believe that any non jew could be a potential threat, just like how a person raised in a household with klansmen parents may view any black man as a potential threat. To him, our criticism of Israel reminds him of historical prejudice of the past and he thinks without an israel, the Jewish people, his people, cannot survive.

A worthy observation. I'm Jewish and I've seen a lot of ignorant Jews who jump to conclusions over any criticism.

But Vass's questions and comments are very valid. Criticism of Israel, including criticism of Israeli government influence in other governments, is not antisemitism. It's extremely disingenuous to claim it is. And Fahren can calm down and not treat Vass like anyone owes Jewish people or Israel because they cite our persecution in their arguments. We're not owed anything.

[Fahran]

I'm not following your logic whereby "Nazis = bad ∴ Israel cannot be criticised for political action".

It's about how the criticism is done, Vass.

"I think Israel is guilty of ethnic cleansing in the West Bank and that the US government should be more proactive in reprimading Israel" is fine.

"Israel is hypnotizing the world" and "people have dual loyalties" are not.

Omar did the latter, and that's why I'm calling her an Anti-Semite and why the DNC should have passed the resolution to condemn her remarks.

[Fahran]

But Vass's questions and comments are very valid. Criticism of Israel, including criticism of Israeli government influence in other governments, is not antisemitism. It's extremely disingenuous to claim it is. And Fahren can calm down and not treat Vass like anyone owes Jewish people or Israel because they cite our persecution in their arguments. We're not owed anything.

I have explained multiple times that criticism of Israel is fine. Dog whistles are not. We're not owed anything, but, if you want to be taken seriously in a debate, you'll argue from a consistent position. My accusation here is that Vass and many others are arguing from a position quite different from their regular one and that they know as much. They know Antisemitic canards and tropes when they see them. They're ignoring it because it came from someone on "their" team.

[Rojava Free State]

I'm not following your logic whereby "Nazis = bad ∴ Israel cannot be criticised for political action".

It's about how the criticism is done, Vass.

"I think Israel is guilty of ethnic cleansing in the West Bank and that the US government should be more proactive in reprimading Israel" is fine.

"Israel is hypnotizing the world" and "people have dual loyalties" are not.

Omar did the latter, and that's why I'm calling her an Anti-Semite and why the DNC should have passed the resolution to condemn her remarks.

Omar said she wouldn't pledge dual loyalty. It isn't anti Semitic when it involves non jews as well as jews. I think many people in our government of many faiths have dual loyalty between this nation and israel

[Otira]

But Vass's questions and comments are very valid. Criticism of Israel, including criticism of Israeli government influence in other governments, is not antisemitism. It's extremely disingenuous to claim it is. And Fahren can calm down and not treat Vass like anyone owes Jewish people or Israel because they cite our persecution in their arguments. We're not owed anything.

I have explained multiple times that criticism of Israel is fine. Dog whistles are not. We're not owed anything, but, if you want to be taken seriously in a debate, you'll argue from a consistent position. My accusation here is that Vass and many others are arguing from a position quite different from their regular one and that they know as much.

It looks consistent to me. It seems you just don't like it.

[Vassenor]

I'm not following your logic whereby "Nazis = bad ∴ Israel cannot be criticised for political action".

It's about how the criticism is done, Vass.

"I think Israel is guilty of ethnic cleansing in the West Bank and that the US government should be more proactive in reprimading Israel" is fine.

"Israel is hypnotizing the world" and "people have dual loyalties" are not.

Omar did the latter, and that's why I'm calling her an Anti-Semite and why the DNC should have passed the resolution to condemn her remarks.

So criticising the amount of political influence the government of the State of Israel has in the world is anti-semitic because you say so.

[Fahran]

It looks consistent to me. It seems you just don't like it.

It's not consistent at all. The same people would howl if racially insensitive language was used by Trump - and rightly so.

[Fahran]

So criticising the amount of political influence the government of the State of Israel has in the world is anti-semitic because you say so.

No, resorting to Antisemitic canards is Antisemitic. I routinely criticize Israel. I even gave an example of how to criticize Israel without being an Anti-Semite.

[Rojava Free State]

I would say there's a fifth column of zionists, both Jewish and Christian as well. I don't view this as a conflict between non jews and jews. I view it as a conflict between us and a government that treats us in an inferior fashion. It's kinda like how black people in brixton during the brixton riots viewed their conflict as being against the police and not against their white neighbors

Calling them a fifth column implies that Israel is an enemy. To be honest, I would try to avoid likening anyone to a fifth column since I can slide that shoe right off their foot and right onto yours. It's an ugly way to debate. It implies that the other side isn't loyal to our society and doesn't care about our society - and it's often quite prejudicial. I mean... you can agree that Israel gets too many passes and that America's government is too pro-Zionist, which is still a weird thing to say, without insinuating that large groups of people are basically traitors.

Except many times they actively work against our own interests. These middle East wars hurt americans, and damage our economy. They may not be enemies of the people but they don't have our best interests in mind either

[Vassenor]

So criticising the amount of political influence the government of the State of Israel has in the world is anti-semitic because you say so.

No, resorting to Antisemitic canards is Antisemitic. I routinely criticize Israel. I even gave an example of how to criticize Israel without being an Anti-Semite.

Sounds more like you're looking for excuses to justify your own biases personally.

[Israeli Empiratic Commonwealth]

Sorry, is anyone else noticing a left wing hypocrisy here?
When it suits them, Jews are great and the holocaust was so bad and Nazis are all horrible etc etc
When it doesnt, just because Jews had the holocaust happen to them doesnt make this right etc etc

[Otira]

It looks consistent to me. It seems you just don't like it.

It's not consistent at all. The same people would howl if racially insensitive language was used by Trump - and rightly so.

It's not racially insensitive to criticize or be wary of corruption.

Vass isn't criticizing the people involved because they're Jewish, but because they appear corrupt. Do you understand the difference?

[North German Realm]

I get that but Fahren is treating Vass like an idiot who owes him something for "evoking persecution." It's insulting.

I'm pretty sure that Fahren is a Sephardic Jew and is looking at this from a historical perspective. He was probably raised with the stories of historical anti-Semitism and has come to believe that any non jew could be a potential threat, just like how a person raised in a household with klansmen parents may view any black man as a potential threat. To him, our criticism of Israel reminds him of historical prejudice of the past and he thinks without an israel, the Jewish people, his people, cannot survive.

Even if all that were true about the Jews needing israel, we as non jews have rights too. You can't shoot me just for being a brown man. I'm a human being. Those people in Palestine are humans too. They are men, women and kids. They're fathers, brothers, sisters, grandparents, cousins, aunts and uncles. Their homes should not be bulldozed to make way for Jewish settlers. Their children should not be treated as potential enemies and shot during a war in Gaza. White phosphorous shouldn't rain down on them. when I talk about their lives mattering, I'm not saying Jewish lives don't matter. They do matter, and so do the lives of Palestinians, and the Lebanese and Americans and Egyptians and everyone else.

Did... did you unironically compare a Jew to a Klansman on the basis of "assumption of threats" because uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh