Dating is at a Record Low: Another Dating Thread

[Diopolis]

I believe dating should wait until a young person is ready to be married, so that even if certain unfortunate circumstances do arise, they can be rectified immediately.

[Felt Karpit]

I have been watching this thread for a bit because I find it super fascinating. It is a weird combination of people who have never dated saying that their inexperience makes it impossible to date, while on the other side we have people saying that people shouldn't date until they want to get married, and that waiting to date is actually desirable.

Personally I think that dating is hard when it is made hard, though I am coming from a perspective being a queer trans man, so my life experiences probably different from a lot of y'alls. One observation I have had is that meeting people going into the situation with the intention of dating is hard. Meeting a stranger and immediately going like "I want to make you my most intimate relationship right now" is stressful, but seems to be the norm for dating. Honestly, it is way easier to get to know someone as a friend before turning a relationship romantic. the issue is, from what I notice with straight men, a lot of y'all do not necessarily like having the most gender diverse friend groups, and being straight, your friendships won't turn romantic lol.

And even if you don't like the idea of dating your friends, having a more diverse friend group means that your friends know people, and could try to set you up on a date with them, and starting with a common friend will help ease you into a relationship. If you find dating awkward, having friends to guide it along will make it a lot easier.

Now in regards to the purpose of dating, if you go into dating with the mindset that it is only for marriage, I think you are setting yourself up for failure. That is daunting for most people, and honestly, this is the first place I have actually seen people with that mindset. Yes, dating should be to find someone that you love, but looking at every date as "Will we get married" is putting a lot of pressure on something that should be fun. Plus, dating is a good way to discovering things about yourself, so short relationships can still be important for your personal development.

I don't know why dating is at a low exactly. I really do think focus on school and work does take on hit on young people meeting each other. Also, I think people have a lot of communication issues. The reason I believe my relationship is successful is that we openly discuss our feelings, expectations, and what we are comfortable with, which i've noticed is a think that doesn't happen with others. The amount of relationship problems I see that could just be solved with simple communication is ridiculous.

[New haven america]

I believe dating should wait until a young person is ready to be married, so that even if certain unfortunate circumstances do arise, they can be rectified immediately.

Like?

[Diopolis]

I believe dating should wait until a young person is ready to be married, so that even if certain unfortunate circumstances do arise, they can be rectified immediately.

Like?

Some people slip up before their wedding day in the practice of chastity. Oftenest it is best to do the honorable thing.

[Kernen]

The Epstein Barr virus is sexually transmitted. No safe sex (condom, pill, diaphragm) will protect you there.

Life avoiding risk isn't life.

Syphilis and gonorrhea are also known to be transmitted whilst wearing a condom.

Relatively easy to treat and statistically unlikely.

Pregnancy can concur with just touching your penis and afterwards touching the vagina, branded it is rare but it happens.

This is such an unreasonably unlikely scenario that I can't even bother addressing it.

Abortion can cause guilt, and in the case of a medical procedure the girl can feel invaded, cause PTSD. True this is more a factor for the girl than the boy. But if you like someone, you wouldn't want to be responsible for causing them PTSD, right?

My partner never had a problem with hers. I suppose that depends on the value system you've instilled. And I have no intention of instilling in any children of mine a value system that makes them guilty of making good choices for themselves.

Just as with all addictions, the exposure to the drug and its effects can cause addiction.

Oversimplified concept of addiction.

Low self esteem for having had sex is more common in girls than in boys, true. But it isn't uncommon. Especially when you haven't performed/ enjoyed it as you thought you would.

Source?

Let's be honest here. Having sex is great, but not that earth shattering as media/ books are making you believe.
Achieving orgasm together won't make you "whole" or soulmates.

Disagree. Sex is pretty earth-shatteringly great. At least, it is for me. Maybe you're doing it wrong?

At 14 you are still discovering yourself, your Body hasn't yet fully changed. Most teens aren't comfortable in their own body. If you are not comfortable with yourself, don't really know what you like sexually, how can you have satisfactory sex then?

I dunno, I managed around that age.

[New haven america]

Like?

Some people slip up before their wedding day in the practice of chastity. Oftenest it is best to do the honorable thing.

Good thing most of the modern world knows that the idea of chastity is crap.

Seriously, how are you supposed to know what you like or not r if you and your partner are sexually compatible when you never go out for a test drive?

[Diopolis]

Some people slip up before their wedding day in the practice of chastity. Oftenest it is best to do the honorable thing.

Good thing most of the modern world knows that the idea of chastity is crap.

Seriously, how are you supposed to know what you like or not r if you and your partner are sexually compatible when you never go out for a test drive?

The idea of sexual compatibility is overstated drastically.

[New haven america]

Good thing most of the modern world knows that the idea of chastity is crap.

Seriously, how are you supposed to know what you like or not r if you and your partner are sexually compatible when you never go out for a test drive?

The idea of sexual compatibility is overstated drastically.

When you're in a relationship with a good sex life, it makes up 5% of the relationship.

When you're in a relationship with a bad sex life, it consumes 80% of the relationship.

[Chessmistress]

Like?

Some people slip up before their wedding day in the practice of chastity. Oftenest it is best to do the honorable thing.

A lot more of people don't bother to marry (most Americans aren't married) and even more people don't bother in the slighest about chastity.

[Aguaria Major]

You do have a point about this. It has been proven time and again that status (namely salary) is attractive to women. I'm personally a male enrolled in a US university, and where I am at least, women are namely looking for one of 2 things when it comes to even semi-romantic relations:

1) Sex. The rise of Tinder is what I blame for this fact. Casual sex has always been a thing at colleges here, but Tinder has thrown a drum of gasoline onto an already not-indignifucantly sized fire. However, these women are not the majority.

2) The true majority are looking for status. They want someone with a nice job, and a big house. Women looking for older men, is thus actually a pretty common thing where I go to school.

This second fact makes it almost impossible for any man of my age to be with anyone who matches his age. And it's not like we have any other options since dating high-schoolers is out of the question for numerous moral and legal reasons, and using the same trick and going older doesn't work since women mature faster than men, and older women thus don't want to be with someone who they view as a child.

It is a very real phenomenon.

As for my personal story/frustrations:

I am someone who is not bad-looking, but I am also not a 10. I am a fit man who regularly works out, and who was a varsity swimmer in high school. But, I am not completely shredded, and I have what I describe as a British smile, since my family couldn't afford braces for a long time when I was young. And I refuse to get them now because they screw with the way you play your instruments, should you play a wind instrument (of which I play 5). My friend convinced me to get Tinder once, and the fact I'm not a supermodel was an immediate handicap. Women don't want someone, even for a relationship, who is not a 10. I very much blame the culture of Tinder for this attitude. It's objectifying and dehumanizing, and it conditions people to judge each other based on looks above all else.

The above financial predicament is also something I've experienced.

Another fact is that for whatever reason, women seem to like quiet, soft-spoken, emotional men, of which I am not. I am never mean, and am very friendly in person, but I am also loud and opinionated. I have been told my personal mannerisms are very strident, and can border on aggressiveness sometimes. If someone pisses me off, I very loudly tell them off. And no woman, in my experience, wants someone like that. They want softer guys.

Whenever I go into romantic mode, I am relentlessly gunned down.

I once was told that I come on too strong, and that I need to take things slow, so I asked a girl I liked if she wanted to hang out one night. Apparently, she could tell where I was going, and responded with, "no, I don't want to hang out. I can't see us as friends, or as being compatible".

Dating is a nightmare.

NOTE: these are only my experiences as seen from my perspective, and nothing here is meant to be a general or universal rule on how women behave, for any women who read this.

Dating sites and apps are garbage IMO. You're better off trying to meet someone in person.

When it comes to Tinder and people looking like supermodels, they could have just photoshopped themselves, or are using a pic they found online. Unless you meet them IRL, you really can't be 100% sure that they look that good, which brings me back to the earlier point I made about dating apps being garbage.

As for your teeth, have you tried looking into Invisalign or similar plastic aligners? They're clear, they're removable, and from what I've heard, affordable.

No, actually. From what I've heard, they're not effective, but maybe I should give them a try.

And what you just said is why I have deleted it and sworn never to re-download that fuckpad disguised as an app.

As for the chastity thing that seems to have currently taken center stage here:

As someone studying evolutionary biology, I can say that we are all still animals and driven by the desire to spread as much of our own DNA around as possible. In a sexually reproducing species, this fact means that whatever progeny are produced will be as diverse as possible, randomly combining the DNA of as many members of the species as possible. This is good for the species since it means that should an environmental change new threat to existence manifest itself, there is more likely to be at least someone that will survive due to their different genome.

Now, monogamy is a thing in nature as well, but it is far less common, and most ape species do not practice it. Apes tend to go for the male-and-harem model. So did we, actually, until we started building civilizations. But that instinct is still there.

This is why chastity, in my opinion, is a fruitless endeavor, and people should just be honest about this with people they are involved with. And as long as both people consent to it, disregarding chastity is even alright if 2 people are married (open marriages). In a perfect world, even polygamy would be alright in my opinion, but it is a practice corrupted by the cult of Mormonism among others, so currently, I am not okay with this, though.

Looking at what I just wrote, could this possibly be the reason I can't get a date?

[Thepeopl]

As for the chastity thing that seems to have currently taken center stage here:

As someone studying evolutionary biology, I can say that we are all still animals and driven by the desire to spread as much of our own DNA around as possible. In a sexually reproducing species, this fact means that whatever progeny are produced will be as diverse as possible, randomly combining the DNA of as many members of the species as possible. This is good for the species since it means that should an environmental change new threat to existence manifest itself, there is more likely to be at least someone that will survive due to their different genome.

Now, monogamy is a thing in nature as well, but it is far less common, and most ape species do not practice it. Apes tend to go for the male-and-harem model. So did we, actually, until we started building civilizations. But that instinct is still there.

This is why chastity, in my opinion, is a fruitless endeavor, and people should just be honest about this with people they are involved with. And as long as both people consent to it, disregarding chastity is even alright if 2 people are married (open marriages). In a perfect world, even polygamy would be alright in my opinion, but it is a practice corrupted by the cult of Mormonism among others, so currently, I am not okay with this, though.

Looking at what I just wrote, could this possibly be the reason I can't get a date?

Why are we like chimps/ gorillas? I d classify us as bonobo 's, squirrel monkeys or lemurs.

If you take into account the body dysmorphia. And the choice of sexual partner is predominantly the female's.

Someone will come along and see right through your bluster or even yell as hard as you. Try to ask the girl who turned you down why she won't want to be friends, that could be very interesting to learn.

[Thepeopl]

The Epstein Barr virus is sexually transmitted. No safe sex (condom, pill, diaphragm) will protect you there.

Life avoiding risk isn't life.

That was not the original question, you asked how is that unhealthy.

Syphilis and gonorrhea are also known to be transmitted whilst wearing a condom.

Relatively easy to treat and statistically unlikely.

So you say most people don't kiss, go down on eachother or touch each others butt holes. Whilst having sex.

Pregnancy can concur with just touching your penis and afterwards touching the vagina, granded it is rare but it happens.

This is such an unreasonably unlikely scenario that I can't even bother addressing it.

Yes, as stated in my point. Very rare. But ppl should be aware that it does happen. So if someone says she us pregnant and you haven't penetrated her, she might not be lying. The same with the woman who is a chimera, rare but it happens. Her own children have different DNA than her. Because she carries 2 sets of DNA. (OH! Btw, you didn't point out my typo! Oops.)

My partner never had a problem with hers (abortion). I suppose that depends on the value system you've instilled. And I have no intention of instilling in any children of mine a value system that makes them guilty of making good choices for themselves.

Really, you are going with the personal anecdote here? Interesting.
I am adopted, I really have not experienced any detrimental effects of that . I don't see the problem.
For a fact I know my sister and about 70% of adopted children do struggle with their adoption

Just as with all addictions, the exposure to the drug and its effects can cause addiction.

Oversimplified concept of addiction.

So enlighten me. How does addiction work?

Low self esteem for having had sex is more common in girls than in boys, true. But it isn't uncommon. Especially when you haven't performed/ enjoyed it as you thought you would.

Source?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/8036980/
Ok, I might have had it backwards, low self esteem is a factor for sexual risky behaviour. But it doesn't improve the self esteem either.

Let's be honest here. Having sex is great, but not that earth shattering as media/ books are making you believe.
Achieving orgasm together won't make you "whole" or soulmates.

Disagree. Sex is pretty earth-shatteringly great. At least, it is for me. Maybe you're doing it wrong?

Really, how do you make sure all your atoms come back in the right place? Do you neighbourhood complain overly much about the string quartet at you bed?
It might be that your definition of earth shattering is slightly different from mine. A biology text book described it nicely: an orgasm is alike when you have a ticklish nose, for a long time and than you are able to sneeze. It feels a bit like that but only nicer.
I like reading books, I like chocolate and I like sex. I really wouldn't want to be without. But exploding into millions of pieces, which is earth shattering. No.

At 14 you are still discovering yourself, your Body hasn't yet fully changed. Most teens aren't comfortable in their own body. If you are not comfortable with yourself, don't really know what you like sexually, how can you have satisfactory sex then?

I dunno, I managed around that age.

And again the personal anecdote.
Which is great! Really am happy for you.

And as state in a prior post, I wouldn't mind if my 14 year old, be it my son or daughter, would have sex. But I would not advise or enable it. I did provide condoms and invite them to talk about it with me and ask anything they want to know.

[Ethel mermania]

Good thing most of the modern world knows that the idea of chastity is crap.

Seriously, how are you supposed to know what you like or not r if you and your partner are sexually compatible when you never go out for a test drive?

The idea of sexual compatibility is overstated drastically.

Not in a happy marriage it isnt.

[Special Aromas]

The idea of sexual compatibility is overstated drastically.

Not in a happy marriage it isnt.

I think you're confusing sexual compatibility with sexual competency. Short of having defective plumbing, I've never seen anything to indicate that two people can't have enjoyable sex if both of them know what they are doing. It's something that can be learnt, people even get paid to teach it these days.

[Rojava Free State]

STDs can be mitigated with safe sex. So can pregnancies. No idea what is bad about abortions.

Getting laid as a teenager isn't going to cause sexual addiction, and not getting laid is more likely to cause low self esteem than getting laid.

If I had a 14 year old kid, I'd encourage them to have sex when they're comfortable with it.

The Epstein Barr virus is sexually transmitted. No safe sex (condom, pill, diaphragm) will protect you there.
Syphilis and gonorrhea are also known to be transmitted whilst wearing a condom.

Pregnancy can concur with just touching your penis and afterwards touching the vagina, branded it is rare but it happens.

Abortion can cause guilt, and in the case of a medical procedure the girl can feel invaded, cause PTSD. True this is more a factor for the girl than the boy. But if you like someone, you wouldn't want to be responsible for causing them PTSD, right?

Just as with all addictions, the exposure to the drug and its effects can cause addiction.

Low self esteem for having had sex is more common in girls than in boys, true. But it isn't uncommon. Especially when you haven't performed/ enjoyed it as you thought you would.

Let's be honest here. Having sex is great, but not that earth shattering as media/ books are making you believe.
Achieving orgasm together won't make you "whole" or soulmates.

At 14 you are still discovering yourself, your Body hasn't yet fully changed. Most teens aren't comfortable in their own body. If you are not comfortable with yourself, don't really know what you like sexually, how can you have satisfactory sex then?
So I do encourage him to talk about everything with his girl ( she is bi sexual btw), have told him to respect himself and her. And told him where he can find the condoms when the one in his wallet is used.

"Most people become infected with EBV and gain adaptive immunity. In the United States, about half of all five-year-old children and about 90% of adults have evidence of previous infection." That's from the National center for infectious diseases. I know you weren't arguing in favor of abstinence so I'm not getting on you, but I think it's hilarious how every time someone tries to argue in favor of abstinence with half truths and flat out lies, it takes a 30 second Google search to trash their beliefs. Sex isn't bad folks. Out of thousands of species of creatures, we are the only one who treats sex like a damn time bomb

Even spiders don't fear sex like many people do, and spider sex ends with the male getting eaten, so that speaks volumes

[Rojava Free State]

Some people slip up before their wedding day in the practice of chastity. Oftenest it is best to do the honorable thing.

Good thing most of the modern world knows that the idea of chastity is crap.

Seriously, how are you supposed to know what you like or not r if you and your partner are sexually compatible when you never go out for a test drive?

When some good pious kid tells me they'll wait till marriage to have sex, I just grin devilishly knowing karma might not be so kind to them for that

[Saiwania]

Sex isn't bad folks. Out of thousands of species of creatures, we are the only one who treats sex like a damn time bomb
Even spiders don't fear sex like many people do, and spider sex ends with the male getting eaten, so that speaks volumes

It is perfectly rational to conclude that sex is bad to be too lax about. If you have sex, you need to be able to trust the other person enough and some people just aren't capable of that. The absolute worst outcome that could come from sex in my mind, is HIV. But the other more common outcome is having a child, which while not bad, is quite an enormous setback and difficulty if financially and economically, you'd be unprepared for it.

Some people will never become financially secure enough to be able to be a proper parent as opposed to a deadbeat. Your child might only resent you if you helped to create them, but they grew up in poverty with nothing but hardships in a cruel or dangerous world.

I don't even like kissing. Something about it is just a turn off for me.

[Crysuko]

Not in a happy marriage it isnt.

I think you're confusing sexual compatibility with sexual competency. Short of having defective plumbing, I've never seen anything to indicate that two people can't have enjoyable sex if both of them know what they are doing. It's something that can be learnt, people even get paid to teach it these days.

sexual surrogacy is very much a thing, if you believe in the ethics behind it

[Luminesa]

Sex isn't bad folks. Out of thousands of species of creatures, we are the only one who treats sex like a damn time bomb
Even spiders don't fear sex like many people do, and spider sex ends with the male getting eaten, so that speaks volumes

It is perfectly rational to conclude that sex is bad to be too lax about. If you have sex, you need to be able to trust the other person enough and some people just aren't capable of that. The absolute worst outcome that could come from sex in my mind, is HIV. But the other more common outcome is having a child, which while not bad, is quite an enormous setback and difficulty if financially and economically, you'd be unprepared for it.

Some people will never become financially secure enough to be able to be a proper parent as opposed to a deadbeat. Your child might only resent you if you helped to create them, but they grew up in poverty with nothing but hardships in a cruel or dangerous world.

I don't even like kissing. Something about it is just a turn off for me.

Growing up in a poorer family doesn’t ALWAYS mean the kids will be miserable. Rich families are often quite miserable themselves.

[Galloism]

The perfect job doesn't exis-

Not in a happy marriage it isnt.

I think you're confusing sexual compatibility with sexual competency. Short of having defective plumbing, I've never seen anything to indicate that two people can't have enjoyable sex if both of them know what they are doing. It's something that can be learnt, people even get paid to teach it these days.

[Luminesa]

The Epstein Barr virus is sexually transmitted. No safe sex (condom, pill, diaphragm) will protect you there.
Syphilis and gonorrhea are also known to be transmitted whilst wearing a condom.

Pregnancy can concur with just touching your penis and afterwards touching the vagina, branded it is rare but it happens.

Abortion can cause guilt, and in the case of a medical procedure the girl can feel invaded, cause PTSD. True this is more a factor for the girl than the boy. But if you like someone, you wouldn't want to be responsible for causing them PTSD, right?

Just as with all addictions, the exposure to the drug and its effects can cause addiction.

Low self esteem for having had sex is more common in girls than in boys, true. But it isn't uncommon. Especially when you haven't performed/ enjoyed it as you thought you would.

Let's be honest here. Having sex is great, but not that earth shattering as media/ books are making you believe.
Achieving orgasm together won't make you "whole" or soulmates.

At 14 you are still discovering yourself, your Body hasn't yet fully changed. Most teens aren't comfortable in their own body. If you are not comfortable with yourself, don't really know what you like sexually, how can you have satisfactory sex then?
So I do encourage him to talk about everything with his girl ( she is bi sexual btw), have told him to respect himself and her. And told him where he can find the condoms when the one in his wallet is used.

"Most people become infected with EBV and gain adaptive immunity. In the United States, about half of all five-year-old children and about 90% of adults have evidence of previous infection." That's from the National center for infectious diseases. I know you weren't arguing in favor of abstinence so I'm not getting on you, but I think it's hilarious how every time someone tries to argue in favor of abstinence with half truths and flat out lies, it takes a 30 second Google search to trash their beliefs. Sex isn't bad folks. Out of thousands of species of creatures, we are the only one who treats sex like a damn time bomb

Even spiders don't fear sex like many people do, and spider sex ends with the male getting eaten, so that speaks volumes

It’s not that sex is bad, not at all. It’s just there’s a time and a place for it. It’s like saying wine is bad. Not necessarily (though I don’t like wine much myself), but you’re not gonna drink down a bottle of Chardonnay while driving home from work.

[Luminesa]

I have been watching this thread for a bit because I find it super fascinating. It is a weird combination of people who have never dated saying that their inexperience makes it impossible to date, while on the other side we have people saying that people shouldn't date until they want to get married, and that waiting to date is actually desirable.

Personally I think that dating is hard when it is made hard, though I am coming from a perspective being a queer trans man, so my life experiences probably different from a lot of y'alls. One observation I have had is that meeting people going into the situation with the intention of dating is hard. Meeting a stranger and immediately going like "I want to make you my most intimate relationship right now" is stressful, but seems to be the norm for dating. Honestly, it is way easier to get to know someone as a friend before turning a relationship romantic. the issue is, from what I notice with straight men, a lot of y'all do not necessarily like having the most gender diverse friend groups, and being straight, your friendships won't turn romantic lol.

And even if you don't like the idea of dating your friends, having a more diverse friend group means that your friends know people, and could try to set you up on a date with them, and starting with a common friend will help ease you into a relationship. If you find dating awkward, having friends to guide it along will make it a lot easier.

Now in regards to the purpose of dating, if you go into dating with the mindset that it is only for marriage, I think you are setting yourself up for failure. That is daunting for most people, and honestly, this is the first place I have actually seen people with that mindset. Yes, dating should be to find someone that you love, but looking at every date as "Will we get married" is putting a lot of pressure on something that should be fun. Plus, dating is a good way to discovering things about yourself, so short relationships can still be important for your personal development.

I don't know why dating is at a low exactly. I really do think focus on school and work does take on hit on young people meeting each other. Also, I think people have a lot of communication issues. The reason I believe my relationship is successful is that we openly discuss our feelings, expectations, and what we are comfortable with, which i've noticed is a think that doesn't happen with others. The amount of relationship problems I see that could just be solved with simple communication is ridiculous.

Courting is definitely at a low. It’s just like you said, dating often includes how fast you can get a person to second base...or...third base(?) I guess. Spending time becoming friends with a person I think is most important.

[Saiwania]

Growing up in a poorer family doesn’t ALWAYS mean the kids will be miserable. Rich families are often quite miserable themselves.

Rich families are an infinitely better situation for children to be in. At least then, there is virtually no risk for them going hungry.

[Woods Is Back]

I partially agree...

I usually see that its one date, marriage, multiple children so they get welfare, then divorce.

But who am I to say?

[Crysuko]

Never dated due to being almost comically socially incompetent. in one such instance a girl flat out gave me her number, the latency on "she might like me" was about 2 years. I also once gave a girl a strawberry in an origami box as a valentine's present.

fate has decided I shall be loveless, and I lack the motivation to challenge it