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by Greater Cesnica » Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:20 am
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San Lumen wrote:You are ridiculous.George Orwell wrote:“That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there.”
by Candlewhisper Archive » Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:33 pm
by Greater Cesnica » Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:35 pm
Candlewhisper Archive wrote:I guess the main concern here remains MI's worry that it's too much. Gang rape -- even with an adult tag -- is probably taking things beyond the limits of what we're happy to see in an NS issue.
The lines are blurry - we've always said absolutely no to any issues about paedophilia, but we've had issues refer to adult rape before, albeit not graphically or explicitly.
Do you think it's possible to preserve the narrative while toning down the content? For example, maybe it could be on the assault course rather than in the showers, and rather than rape being implied, the sexual assault could explicitly be something milder (yet still unacceptable) like a group of male soldiers throwing water over her to leer at her in a wet t-shirt.
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San Lumen wrote:You are ridiculous.George Orwell wrote:“That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there.”
by The Marsupial Illuminati » Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:07 pm
Greater Cesnica wrote:I wanted to produce a reaction in the person receiving the issue. A visceral reckoning of the atrocity being described. Option Two is the 'nuclear' reaction- a blanket capital punishment to satisfy both the Leader's and the nation's desire for vengeance. I've removed all reference to stabbings and the specific number of attackers to tone it down. So my question is then, can something this graphic fly as an issue with the appropriate tagging?
Also, as for the scenarios you suggested- those incidents never make the papers in real life. It takes widespread abuse or a single horrific event to sear such events into the national consciousness. For instance, every single day an Allied Coalition soldier will commit an act of sexual assault overseas. But the Mahmudiyah rape and killings brought this to the front of the public consciousness, and seriously damaged the credibility of all U.S soldiers serving in Iraq.
by Sanctaria » Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:19 pm
Greater Cesnica wrote:So my question is then, can something this graphic fly as an issue with the appropriate tagging?
by Greater Cesnica » Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:45 pm
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San Lumen wrote:You are ridiculous.George Orwell wrote:“That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there.”
by Greater Cesnica » Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:56 am
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San Lumen wrote:You are ridiculous.George Orwell wrote:“That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there.”
by Greater Cesnica » Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:31 am
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San Lumen wrote:You are ridiculous.George Orwell wrote:“That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there.”
by Fauxia » Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:59 am
Greater Cesnica wrote:TITLE: Service Dishonored
VALIDITY: Has military, allows females in military, no capital punishment, strong law enforcement.
DESCRIPTION: After the revelation of a systemic, high-reaching sex abuse against female soldiers over the span of over a decade and the failure of senior military officials in stopping it, the @@DENONYM@@ military has found itself in the midst of a public relations nightmare.
As pressure and scrutiny mounts against the armed forces, you have agreed to meet with one of the victims of the abuse.
Option 1: "I joined the army to serve my country, because I've always f-felt there was a duty for me to do so." says Corporal @@RANDOMNAMEFEMALE@@, a victim of rape by one of her superiors. "It started off as catcalling, staring, whispering, but then it c-changed. I began being summoned to the office of my platoon commander, first every week, and then every other night. And then my lieutenant s-started assaulting me. I want to see justice. I want to see women like me to feel safe serving their country. @@NAME@@ needs more protections for female soldiers and harsher penalties for r-rapists and those who enable them. Like life in prison."
Outcome: Male soldiers caught staring too long at their female counterparts may be charged with sexual harassment.
Option 2: Colonel @@RANDOMMALE@@, commander of the base where this particular incident took place has accompanied Ms. @@RANDOMLASTNAMEFEMALE@@ to your office, and sits next to her across from your desk.
"I tried to stop what was happening. I laid off dozens of officers, but they would simply be re-assigned to another base. What I see here is a culture of intimidation, of utter disregard for the dignity of @@DENONYM@@ women. A lack of basic human empathy for others. Most of the perpetrators won't see real punishment with our current punishments and culture. We need a serious deterrent, @@LEADER@@. The long drop with a short stop should do the trick.
Outcome: The government has purchased in bulk thousands of yards of manila rope.
Option 3: A few minutes later, the two leave your office. Just as they exit through your officer door, a second Colonel, @@RANDOMMALE@@ enters.
"This would have never happened if women were not allowed into combat roles in the first place. When men and women are in crowded barracks, these... incidents are bound to happen. Now now, I'm not condoning what has happened, or defending the people who committed these acts! But to effectively curb scandals like these occurring in the future, drastic action must be taken." He quickly salutes you before leaving your office.
Outcome: @@NAME@@ has censored all media depictions of the wildly popular video game and film protagonist Sara Colt.Option 4: Hoping to take your mind off of this unfortunate topic, you pull out your phone only to find a text message from your nephew. Opening the message, you read: "idk about you but imo having women and men serve separately would solve this whole military rape thing". As you prepare to send a reply back another message appears on the screen: "also way more women could join cuz the standards for them would be lower lol".
Outcome: The @@DENONYM@@ military is experiencing a gender identity crisis.
by Greater Cesnica » Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:12 am
Fauxia wrote:Hey there, Greater Cesnica! Nice to see a new writer in GI, and this is extremely promising. I’ll go through here and try to correct some things but this is quite good.Greater Cesnica wrote:TITLE: Service Dishonored
VALIDITY: Has military, allows females in military, no capital punishment, strong law enforcement.
It’s possible this needs to have a "not extremely rare crime" tag, and not sure if it needs strong law enforcement. Not sure though.DESCRIPTION: After the revelation of a systemic, high-reaching sex abuse against female soldiers over the span of over a decade and the failure of senior military officials in stopping it, the @@DENONYM@@ military has found itself in the midst of a public relations nightmare.
A systemic, high-reaching sex abuse? Sounds like one instance to me. Just get rid of "a" and it should be fine.As pressure and scrutiny mounts against the armed forces, you have agreed to meet with one of the victims of the abuse.
"Pressure and scrutiny" sounds repetitive to me, but to be honest I’m not sure either one is right here. You could use something along the lines of "outrage" here, or something else entirely.Option 1: "I joined the army to serve my country, because I've always f-felt there was a duty for me to do so." says Corporal @@RANDOMNAMEFEMALE@@, a victim of rape by one of her superiors. "It started off as catcalling, staring, whispering, but then it c-changed. I began being summoned to the office of my platoon commander, first every week, and then every other night. And then my lieutenant s-started assaulting me. I want to see justice. I want to see women like me to feel safe serving their country. @@NAME@@ needs more protections for female soldiers and harsher penalties for r-rapists and those who enable them. Like life in prison."
Outcome: Male soldiers caught staring too long at their female counterparts may be charged with sexual harassment.
1) Since you use it later, I think the macro for the corporal should be @@RANDOMFEMALEFIRSTNAME(1)@@ @@RANDOMLASTNAME(1)@@. Macros are weird!
2) Issue effects/fallouts aren’t written as sentences, so no capitalization.Option 2: Colonel @@RANDOMMALE@@, commander of the base where this particular incident took place has accompanied Ms. @@RANDOMLASTNAMEFEMALE@@ to your office, and sits next to her across from your desk.
It should be @@RANDOMMALENAME@@ and probably Corporal @@RANDOMLASTNAME(1)@@."I tried to stop what was happening. I laid off dozens of officers, but they would simply be re-assigned to another base. What I see here is a culture of intimidation, of utter disregard for the dignity of @@DENONYM@@ women. A lack of basic human empathy for others. Most of the perpetrators won't see real punishment with our current punishments and culture. We need a serious deterrent, @@LEADER@@. The long drop with a short stop should do the trick.
Outcome: The government has purchased in bulk thousands of yards of manila rope.
Option 3: A few minutes later, the two leave your office. Just as they exit through your officer door, a second Colonel, @@RANDOMMALE@@ enters.
You could cut this option down a bit without losing the narrative by saying simply "as they leave, a second Colonel, @@RANDOMMALENAME@@, enters""This would have never happened if women were not allowed into combat roles in the first place. When men and women are in crowded barracks, these... incidents are bound to happen. Now now, I'm not condoning what has happened, or defending the people who committed these acts! But to effectively curb scandals like these occurring in the future, drastic action must be taken." He quickly salutes you before leaving your office.
Outcome: @@NAME@@ has censored all media depictions of the wildly popular video game and film protagonist Sara Colt.
Not sure whether the nephew is the right choice here, but perhaps.
Finally, it occurs to me that this should probably me ineligible for nations that have all-female militaries. If there’s no policy tag for that it should be ineligible for nations that chose 426.4.
Don’t rush submitting this. It still needs a good bit of work. It’s pretty good though.
Sic Semper Tyrannis.
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San Lumen wrote:You are ridiculous.George Orwell wrote:“That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there.”
by Greater Cesnica » Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:14 am
Drongonia wrote:This is looking really good, I hope it's accepted.
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San Lumen wrote:You are ridiculous.George Orwell wrote:“That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there.”
by Verdant Haven » Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:32 pm
Greater Cesnica wrote:DESCRIPTION: After the revelation of systemic, high-reaching sex abuse against female soldiers over the span of over a decade and the failure of senior military officials in stopping it, the @@DENONYM@@ military has found itself in the midst of a public relations nightmare. As scrutiny mounts against the armed forces and their ability to keep female soldier safe, you have agreed to meet with one of the victims of the abuse.
Option 1: "I joined the army to serve my country, because I've always f-felt there was a duty for me to do so." says Corporal @@RANDOMFEMALEFIRSTNAME(1)@@ @@RANDOMLASTNAME(1)@@, a victim of rape by one of her superiors. "It started off as catcalling, staring, whispering, but then it c-changed. I began being summoned to the office of my platoon commander, first every week, and then every other night. And then my lieutenant s-started assaulting me. I want to see justice. I want to see women like me to feel safe serving their country. @@NAME@@ needs more protections for female soldiers and harsher penalties for r-rapists and those who enable them. Like life in prison."
Outcome: male soldiers caught staring too long at their female counterparts may be charged with sexual harassment.
Option 2: Colonel @@RANDOMMALENAME@@, commander of the base where this particular incident took place has accompanied Ms. @@RANDOMLASTNAME(1)@@ to your office, and sits next to her across from your desk. "I tried to stop what was happening. I laid off dozens of officers, but they would simply be re-assigned to another base. What I see here is a culture of intimidation, of utter disregard for the dignity of @@DENONYM@@ women. A lack of basic human empathy for others. Most of the perpetrators won't see real punishment with our current punishments and culture. We need a serious deterrent, @@LEADER@@. The long drop with a short stop should do the trick.
Outcome: the government has purchased in bulk thousands of yards of manila rope.
Option 3: After a few minutes the two leave. As they leave, a second Colonel, @@RANDOMMALE@@ enters. "This would have never happened if women were not allowed into combat roles in the first place. When men and women are in crowded barracks, these... incidents are bound to happen. Now now, I'm not condoning what has happened, or defending the people who committed these acts! But to effectively curb scandals like these occurring in the future, drastic action must be taken." He quickly salutes you before leaving your office.
Outcome: @@NAME@@ has censored all media depictions of the wildly popular video game and film protagonist Sara Colt.
Option 4: Hoping to take your mind off of this unfortunate topic, you pull out your phone only to find a text message from your nephew. Opening the message, you read: "idk about you but imo having women and men serve separately would solve this whole military rape thing". As you prepare to send a reply back another message appears on the screen: "also way more women could join cuz the standards for them would be lower lol".
Outcome: the @@DENONYM@@ military is experiencing a gender identity crisis.
by Greater Cesnica » Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:39 pm
Verdant Haven wrote:I'll jump in here and see if I can give some feedback, too! I wasn't at all comfortable with the initial form as an issue, but since you've modified it to a less graphic form, I think you've got a good basis to address this very real and serious problem. A lot of this will be just suggestions for smoothing the language flow and tweaking characterizations, since you've got the issue pretty well sculpted now.Greater Cesnica wrote:DESCRIPTION: After the revelation of systemic, high-reaching sex abuse against female soldiers over the span of over a decade and the failure of senior military officials in stopping it, the @@DENONYM@@ military has found itself in the midst of a public relations nightmare. As scrutiny mounts against the armed forces and their ability to keep female soldier safe, you have agreed to meet with one of the victims of the abuse.
- The phrasing "over the span of over a decade" is a bit off, because of the repeated word "over." Perhaps "over the span of more than a decade..."
- I'd also probably use the term "sexual abuse" instead of "sex abuse" (at least in the US, that's the far more common form of the term. Disregard if it's the other way around where you are).Option 1: "I joined the army to serve my country, because I've always f-felt there was a duty for me to do so." says Corporal @@RANDOMFEMALEFIRSTNAME(1)@@ @@RANDOMLASTNAME(1)@@, a victim of rape by one of her superiors. "It started off as catcalling, staring, whispering, but then it c-changed. I began being summoned to the office of my platoon commander, first every week, and then every other night. And then my lieutenant s-started assaulting me. I want to see justice. I want to see women like me to feel safe serving their country. @@NAME@@ needs more protections for female soldiers and harsher penalties for r-rapists and those who enable them. Like life in prison."
- I'm glad you reduced the stuttering here - it was reaching caricature levels before. Honestly though, I would remove it completely. The victim doesn't need to be portrayed as weak or broken - I feel like they can make their point clearly and precisely despite the trauma they've undergone. It kind of undermines the argument for the strength of female service-members to have their spokesperson be blubbering through their testimony.Outcome: male soldiers caught staring too long at their female counterparts may be charged with sexual harassment.
- Excessive staring is sexual harassment. It's not ok in any workplace for men to leer at women (or vice versa). I'd suggest having something far more innocuous being penalized - something like "saying 'good morning' in the elevator is prosecuted as sexual harassment"Option 2: Colonel @@RANDOMMALENAME@@, commander of the base where this particular incident took place has accompanied Ms. @@RANDOMLASTNAME(1)@@ to your office, and sits next to her across from your desk. "I tried to stop what was happening. I laid off dozens of officers, but they would simply be re-assigned to another base. What I see here is a culture of intimidation, of utter disregard for the dignity of @@DENONYM@@ women. A lack of basic human empathy for others. Most of the perpetrators won't see real punishment with our current punishments and culture. We need a serious deterrent, @@LEADER@@. The long drop with a short stop should do the trick.
- I wonder if this might be more powerful with a female colonel, rather than a male. As is, this could be read somewhat paternalistic ally, with the idea that a female needs a male spokesperson to protect and represent her. I'm not suggesting you intended that, but I definitely can see that side of it.
- Perhaps identify them as "the newly-appointed commander of the base..." to suggest part of the changes underway, but she's asking for more.
- Also, I would suggest you refer to the victim with her rank rather than with "Ms." - she's still in the service and is there on at least semi-official business, so call her "corporal."
- Officers can't typically be "laid off" - that would require a court martial and revocation of their commission - "re-assigned" or "transferred" is probably the best the colonel could do on their own authority.Outcome: the government has purchased in bulk thousands of yards of manila rope.
- This phrasing might flow more smoothly as "the government has bulk-purchased thousands..."Option 3: After a few minutes the two leave. As they leave, a second Colonel, @@RANDOMMALE@@ enters. "This would have never happened if women were not allowed into combat roles in the first place. When men and women are in crowded barracks, these... incidents are bound to happen. Now now, I'm not condoning what has happened, or defending the people who committed these acts! But to effectively curb scandals like these occurring in the future, drastic action must be taken." He quickly salutes you before leaving your office.
- Don't need that first sentence - it contributes nothing not gained by the second sentence. Start with the "As they leave..."
- If you go with the suggestion above of having the colonel from Option 2 be the newly appointed base commander, it might make good narrative sense for this to be the former base commander.
- I don't entirely buy the "combat roles" line in his argument - this was in the barracks, at a base on home soil, over the course of many years. You don't have to be combat arms to live there and be exposed to that.
- The last sentence is also not needed - his salute and departure does not contribute to the issue or the decision.Outcome: @@NAME@@ has censored all media depictions of the wildly popular video game and film protagonist Sara Colt.
- This effect is a bit of a stretch from the speaker's proposal - I feel like the player is going to be expecting this decision to be the removal of women from the military, not some sort of censorship of media. For this to land, I think the proposal in option 3 will have to include something about reinforcing gender roles, or telling girls they shouldn't try to serve. With a bit more context, then censorship would make sense as a result.
- I don't know who "Sara Colt" is or why I should care about her games, and I don't think that level of specificity makes sense for this effect. I'd probably go with censoring all media depictions "of strong female protagonists" to better capture the broad-ranging effects of such a misogynistic outlook.Option 4: Hoping to take your mind off of this unfortunate topic, you pull out your phone only to find a text message from your nephew. Opening the message, you read: "idk about you but imo having women and men serve separately would solve this whole military rape thing". As you prepare to send a reply back another message appears on the screen: "also way more women could join cuz the standards for them would be lower lol".
- This is the only option here that's I'm iffy about keeping. What exactly is the speaker suggesting? Creating two full fledged armies, one for men and one for women? That doesn't feel like it matches the realism levels previous suggestions here do. Stronger discipline exists, harsh penalties exist, and gender segregation or outright prohibition exists... is the nephew suggesting something like the WWII WRNS/WAVES and similar, creating a special service just for women with limited roles? Make sure this suggestion is sufficiently different from option 3 in result, not just presentation.
- Where did the lower standards come in to it? This case so far has been all about having equality.Outcome: the @@DENONYM@@ military is experiencing a gender identity crisis.
- Depending on how this option shakes out, this could be a reasonable effect line. As I said above, this is the option I feel the most uncertain about.
You've got a very powerful issue here, with important subject matter. Good on you for tackling it well, and let's see this through!
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San Lumen wrote:You are ridiculous.George Orwell wrote:“That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there.”
by Greater Cesnica » Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:29 am
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San Lumen wrote:You are ridiculous.George Orwell wrote:“That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there.”
by Verdant Haven » Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:12 am
by Greater Cesnica » Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:18 am
Verdant Haven wrote:Looks like dramatic improvements to me! I only have two minor items left:
- In option 2, you accidentally put both individuals as colonels - the option 1 speaker was a corporal.
- I'm just missing the boat on the Guns'n'Roses reference, so was wondering what that is? I'm familiar with the band, certainly, but not with how they're relates to gender-separated service branches.
This is looking quite good, in my opinion!
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San Lumen wrote:You are ridiculous.George Orwell wrote:“That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there.”
by Verdant Haven » Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:53 pm
"Iwastried to stop what was happening. I re-assigned dozens of officers and recommended courts martial for them...
by Greater Cesnica » Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:00 pm
Verdant Haven wrote:Good replacement for the nephew.
Macros look good to me (you could use @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ on the first one, but I think that's what it defaults too - Issue Editors will handle those in the end!)
I found two more small typos/suggestions as I was re-reading, both in the same sentence from Option 2:"Iwastried to stop what was happening. I re-assigned dozens of officers and recommended courts martial for them...
- "was" is probably just left over from a re-write.
- "courts martial" is the plural of court martial, so since there are many of them, you might want that (if you don't think it sounds too pretentious)
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San Lumen wrote:You are ridiculous.George Orwell wrote:“That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there.”
by Greater Cesnica » Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:33 am
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San Lumen wrote:You are ridiculous.George Orwell wrote:“That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there.”
by Candlewhisper Archive » Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:40 am
by Greater Cesnica » Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:49 am
Candlewhisper Archive wrote:It remains well-written, but being centred around sexual abuse may still be too much for the game.
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San Lumen wrote:You are ridiculous.George Orwell wrote:“That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there.”
by Sanctaria » Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:13 am
"Private Mary X was sexually assaulted at her base - her attacker was court martialed and kicked out of the military. But now Private X is leading the charge on changing how women are perceived in the military."
Option 1: *demands female-only military*
Option 2: *keep military as, but make women only allowed become officers/hold positions of authority*
Option 3: *get rid of military*
Option 4: *get rid of women in the military*
by Trotterdam » Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:55 am
What, 3 of 4 options are sexist and the remaining one abolishes the military entirely?Sanctaria wrote:"Private Mary X was sexually assaulted at her base - her attacker was court martialed and kicked out of the military. But now Private X is leading the charge on changing how women are perceived in the military."
Option 1: *demands female-only military*
Option 2: *keep military as, but make women only allowed become officers/hold positions of authority*
Option 3: *get rid of military*
Option 4: *get rid of women in the military*
by Sanctaria » Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:04 pm
Trotterdam wrote:What, 3 of 4 options are sexist and the remaining one abolishes the military entirely?Sanctaria wrote:"Private Mary X was sexually assaulted at her base - her attacker was court martialed and kicked out of the military. But now Private X is leading the charge on changing how women are perceived in the military."
Option 1: *demands female-only military*
Option 2: *keep military as, but make women only allowed become officers/hold positions of authority*
Option 3: *get rid of military*
Option 4: *get rid of women in the military*
by Greater Cesnica » Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:49 pm
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San Lumen wrote:You are ridiculous.George Orwell wrote:“That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there.”
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