Why does it need to be changed?
Is there any legitimate reason for it to be changed?
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by Nova Cyberia » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:05 pm
by Page » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:06 pm
Scomagia wrote:Page wrote:
Yeah, how is that? How is someone harmed by being made aware of content so they can decide whether or not they want that content on their mind at the moment?
Encouraging people to avoid anxiety provoking situations or themes makes the anxiety worse. No anxiety disorder, including PTSD, is improved by avoiding the anxiety provoking stimulus. In fact, that's how disorders like agoraphobia worsen.
*have a panic attack in a specific place
*avoid that place because you had a panic attack there
*congratulations, the place itself is now a trigger.
*rinse and repeat until you can't leave home.
Source: ten years of GAD and Agoraphobia.
by Communal concils » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:09 pm
by Necroghastia » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:10 pm
Scomagia wrote:Necroghastia wrote:
Hmm. It does say that this study was conducted on the general public, not with people with PTSD. I'm also seeing a potential flaw with it simply giving a vague warning that could mean absolutely anything, which could lead the mind to make worse assumptions than are actually valid, rather than specifically describing what content is being warned for.
Gallo's source aside, trigger warnings are contrary to accepted protocols for anxiety disorders. No therapist worth a damn is going to tell you to avoid the causes of anxiety and panic unless they are trying to ruin you.
by Nova Cyberia » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:10 pm
Page wrote:Scomagia wrote:Encouraging people to avoid anxiety provoking situations or themes makes the anxiety worse. No anxiety disorder, including PTSD, is improved by avoiding the anxiety provoking stimulus. In fact, that's how disorders like agoraphobia worsen.
*have a panic attack in a specific place
*avoid that place because you had a panic attack there
*congratulations, the place itself is now a trigger.
*rinse and repeat until you can't leave home.
Source: ten years of GAD and Agoraphobia.
Agoraphobia can have a profound effect on one's quality of life, whereas people who have traumatic associations with such things as rape and child abuse can avoid detailed portrayals of these things without a major impact on their quality of life so I don't think that's a great comparison.
I also have GAD and I know that there is a right time and place for coping with one's anxiety but also times to avoid it. You can face the things that set off your anxiety in a good environment and in the right state of mind. But when you already have a mountain of shit on top of you, being forced to confront the sources of your anxiety isn't good. Even exposure therapy is done gradually, in a comfortable setting, and one is given the necessary time to prepare for it. If someone is afraid of snakes, their psychiatrist doesn't throw a surprise snake in their face when they walk through the door.
I think you're severely overestimating how many people want content warnings to facilitate relentless avoidance. In reality it's more like it's there so someone who is already having a shitty day doesn't encounter something to set off a panic attack.
by Communal concils » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:10 pm
by Nakena » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:11 pm
Nova Cyberia wrote:Page wrote:
Agoraphobia can have a profound effect on one's quality of life, whereas people who have traumatic associations with such things as rape and child abuse can avoid detailed portrayals of these things without a major impact on their quality of life so I don't think that's a great comparison.
I also have GAD and I know that there is a right time and place for coping with one's anxiety but also times to avoid it. You can face the things that set off your anxiety in a good environment and in the right state of mind. But when you already have a mountain of shit on top of you, being forced to confront the sources of your anxiety isn't good. Even exposure therapy is done gradually, in a comfortable setting, and one is given the necessary time to prepare for it. If someone is afraid of snakes, their psychiatrist doesn't throw a surprise snake in their face when they walk through the door.
I think you're severely overestimating how many people want content warnings to facilitate relentless avoidance. In reality it's more like it's there so someone who is already having a shitty day doesn't encounter something to set off a panic attack.
As someone who actually suffers with anxiety I can tell you that I don't need trigger warnings.
Facing what causes my anxiety has been the most useful thing for helping me to overcome it.
by Purgatio » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:14 pm
by Communal concils » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:16 pm
Page wrote:Scomagia wrote:Encouraging people to avoid anxiety provoking situations or themes makes the anxiety worse. No anxiety disorder, including PTSD, is improved by avoiding the anxiety provoking stimulus. In fact, that's how disorders like agoraphobia worsen.
*have a panic attack in a specific place
*avoid that place because you had a panic attack there
*congratulations, the place itself is now a trigger.
*rinse and repeat until you can't leave home.
Source: ten years of GAD and Agoraphobia.
Agoraphobia can have a profound effect on one's quality of life, whereas people who have traumatic associations with such things as rape and child abuse can avoid detailed portrayals of these things without a major impact on their quality of life so I don't think that's a great comparison.
I also have GAD and I know that there is a right time and place for coping with one's anxiety but also times to avoid it. You can face the things that set off your anxiety in a good environment and in the right state of mind. But when you already have a mountain of shit on top of you, being forced to confront the sources of your anxiety isn't good. Even exposure therapy is done gradually, in a comfortable setting, and one is given the necessary time to prepare for it. If someone is afraid of snakes, their psychiatrist doesn't throw a surprise snake in their face when they walk through the door.
I think you're severely overestimating how many people want content warnings to facilitate relentless avoidance. In reality it's more like it's there so someone who is already having a shitty day doesn't encounter something to set off a panic attack.
by Page » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:16 pm
Nova Cyberia wrote:Page wrote:
Agoraphobia can have a profound effect on one's quality of life, whereas people who have traumatic associations with such things as rape and child abuse can avoid detailed portrayals of these things without a major impact on their quality of life so I don't think that's a great comparison.
I also have GAD and I know that there is a right time and place for coping with one's anxiety but also times to avoid it. You can face the things that set off your anxiety in a good environment and in the right state of mind. But when you already have a mountain of shit on top of you, being forced to confront the sources of your anxiety isn't good. Even exposure therapy is done gradually, in a comfortable setting, and one is given the necessary time to prepare for it. If someone is afraid of snakes, their psychiatrist doesn't throw a surprise snake in their face when they walk through the door.
I think you're severely overestimating how many people want content warnings to facilitate relentless avoidance. In reality it's more like it's there so someone who is already having a shitty day doesn't encounter something to set off a panic attack.
As someone who actually suffers with anxiety I can tell you that I don't need trigger warnings.
Facing what causes my anxiety has been the most useful thing for helping me to overcome it.
by Page » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:18 pm
Communal concils wrote:Page wrote:
Agoraphobia can have a profound effect on one's quality of life, whereas people who have traumatic associations with such things as rape and child abuse can avoid detailed portrayals of these things without a major impact on their quality of life so I don't think that's a great comparison.
I also have GAD and I know that there is a right time and place for coping with one's anxiety but also times to avoid it. You can face the things that set off your anxiety in a good environment and in the right state of mind. But when you already have a mountain of shit on top of you, being forced to confront the sources of your anxiety isn't good. Even exposure therapy is done gradually, in a comfortable setting, and one is given the necessary time to prepare for it. If someone is afraid of snakes, their psychiatrist doesn't throw a surprise snake in their face when they walk through the door.
I think you're severely overestimating how many people want content warnings to facilitate relentless avoidance. In reality it's more like it's there so someone who is already having a shitty day doesn't encounter something to set off a panic attack.
If you truly want to stop mental issue like anxiety, then stop the source. changing the words of things isn't enough. If we are talking about rape, then you simply have to suppress and coerce those that do it, make punishments for those that do it and prevent it from happening.
by Nova Cyberia » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:20 pm
Page wrote:Nova Cyberia wrote:As someone who actually suffers with anxiety I can tell you that I don't need trigger warnings.
Facing what causes my anxiety has been the most useful thing for helping me to overcome it.
"Actually." Seems quite presumptuous to declare your own anxiety is valid while others are not.
And I'm pretty sure you didn't actually read the post you quoted. There is a time to deal with anxiety and a time to avoid it. There's a difference between making progress on one's own terms and setting off anxiety when things are already bad.
Galloism wrote:Page wrote:By the way, trigger warnings is just basic human decency. Like hey, I'm going to discuss rape so maybe you don't want to read this right now because it might bring up painful memories you don't want to relive right now. Is that so terrible? Is that the worst thing the evil cultural Marxists have come up with, just giving a heads up so people can decide for themselves if they want to proceed?
I mean, according to a recent harvard study, probably yes.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... lp-or-harmA recently published Harvard study tackled these questions. Researchers Benjamin Bullet, Peyton Jones, and Richard McNally had participants read passages from literary texts like Moby-Dick or Crime and Punishment. But before reading these passages, half of the participants received a warning that read: “TRIGGER WARNING: The passage you are about to read contains disturbing content and may trigger an anxiety response, especially in those who have a history of trauma.”
The researchers found that being exposed to trigger warnings caused participants to rate both themselves and others as more vulnerable to developing PTSD. Trigger warnings led to no self-reported differences in anxiety between the two groups overall, but for participants who already held the belief that “words cause harm,” trigger warnings led to an increase in anxiety.
While this study provides some initial evidence for why trigger warnings can be harmful, it has a major limitation: It was conducted with the general public, not with traumatized participants. Since trigger warnings are specifically designed for people with PTSD or those who would otherwise be sensitive to upsetting content that reminds them of past trauma, more research needs to be conducted.
The authors of the study addressed this limitation in their paper, and author Peyton Jones said on Twitter that the researchers plan to do a follow-up study involving participants with trauma histories. But, the authors have also proposed that trigger warnings may be counterproductive for individuals with PTSD because they encourage people to avoid trauma. Research suggests that avoiding trauma, while beneficial in the short term, can worsen symptoms in the long-term. One of the most effective treatments for PTSD is prolonged exposure therapy, which encourages repeated exposure to triggers so that patients can get used to them and no longer find them upsetting.
by Amuaplye » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:21 pm
Electrum on Discord wrote:Please do not ping me a list of body parts.
by Galloism » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:21 pm
Nova Cyberia wrote:In pretty sure Gallo twice now provided you with evidence trigger warnings do more harm than good and you ignored him both times.
by Cekoviu » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:22 pm
Amuaplye wrote:Can I just point out that the poll is biased?
Oh, and it's just a word. Who cares about if it's removed or not?
by Galloism » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:22 pm
by Scomagia » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:22 pm
Page wrote:Scomagia wrote:Encouraging people to avoid anxiety provoking situations or themes makes the anxiety worse. No anxiety disorder, including PTSD, is improved by avoiding the anxiety provoking stimulus. In fact, that's how disorders like agoraphobia worsen.
*have a panic attack in a specific place
*avoid that place because you had a panic attack there
*congratulations, the place itself is now a trigger.
*rinse and repeat until you can't leave home.
Source: ten years of GAD and Agoraphobia.
Agoraphobia can have a profound effect on one's quality of life, whereas people who have traumatic associations with such things as rape and child abuse can avoid detailed portrayals of these things without a major impact on their quality of life so I don't think that's a great comparison.
I also have GAD and I know that there is a right time and place for coping with one's anxiety but also times to avoid it. You can face the things that set off your anxiety in a good environment and in the right state of mind. But when you already have a mountain of shit on top of you, being forced to confront the sources of your anxiety isn't good. Even exposure therapy is done gradually, in a comfortable setting, and one is given the necessary time to prepare for it. If someone is afraid of snakes, their psychiatrist doesn't throw a surprise snake in their face when they walk through the door.
I think you're severely overestimating how many people want content warnings to facilitate relentless avoidance. In reality it's more like it's there so someone who is already having a shitty day doesn't encounter something to set off a panic attack.
by Communal concils » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:23 pm
Purgatio wrote:Communal concils wrote:
If you actually read Marxist Literature, you would know that Marxism contradicts with liberals. In fact, Marxism is anti-Liberal.
I made it very clear that when I use the phrase "Cultural Marxism" I am not referring to Marxist-Leninism. I am drawing a historical analogy, in the same way as Marxists preached about how the ruling class developed a 'ruling ideology' which they brainwashed the public into believing through 'ideological state apparatuses' in order to oppress the proletariat through 'false consciousness', modern liberal and progressive cultural movements believe in a very similar worldview, they just have a different view of who are the oppressors and oppressed, but the structure is the same, a 'dominant ideology' which props up the oppression of particular groups of people through 'ideological state apparatuses', and the solution in both cases is blind iconoclasms and indiscriminate deconstruction of everything that forms the bedrock foundation of a nation, its culture, its values and its identity.
Are Marxism and cultural progressivism different? Obviously. But I think more attention needs to be drawn in the similarities in their worldview and saying the two aren't the same thing is a pedantic objection because it misses the point.
by Page » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:23 pm
by Communal concils » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:28 pm
Page wrote:Communal concils wrote:
If you truly want to stop mental issue like anxiety, then stop the source. changing the words of things isn't enough. If we are talking about rape, then you simply have to suppress and coerce those that do it, make punishments for those that do it and prevent it from happening.
Just because something isn't enough doesn't mean it's not important. Opioids don't heal third degree burns but it's still a good idea to mitigate the pain.
by Communal concils » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:32 pm
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