Scherzinger wrote:Bilge
OOC: I was giving advice to the author, not communicating with you. ICly and OOCly. I like being on your ignore list.
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by Separatist Peoples » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:35 pm
Scherzinger wrote:Bilge
by Scherzinger » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:38 pm
by Novo Abrahamia » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:39 pm
by Separatist Peoples » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:39 pm
Scherzinger wrote:Separatist Peoples wrote:
OOC: I was giving advice to the author, not communicating with you. ICly and OOCly. I like being on your ignore list.
OOC: so instead of looking at the argument, youre just gonna go straight to my personal parts, pretty ignorant, but whatever, i cant change you, and you wont change me.
Scherzinger wrote:First and foremost, the issue of Religion, which, in a good chunk of nations, tends to be the leadership, i.e. theocracies, religious monarchies/republics and so on. In most religions, where God is an almighty figure, and his written word is the law of the land, trannies are forbidden from heaven. This includes homosexuals, actual satanists, capitalists, those who commit crimes, etc. Mutilation of the body is a slap in God's face, as, supposedly, your body, as well as whom you are, is supposed to be God's image of you. While an atheist myself and admittedly somewhat ill-read on religious texts, i am quite familiar with those that gods claim to love and hate. If this proposal becomes law, this would violate the basic freedoms of expression of religion, as well as the ability to follow religious practices freely. Assuming that you follow some of the basic rights that were laws in America, where the 1st Amendment is sacred, you will, simply put, outlaw part of your rights to your people.
by Scherzinger » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:40 pm
Novo Abrahamia wrote:Only a demonized brain would launch that issue. it's sick and ungodly. An insult to our Lord and Savior.
In Novo Abrahamia "transgenderness" is treated as a mental illness. No matter that the WA decides it's gonna stay that way.
by Saciu » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:41 pm
by Wallenburg » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:42 pm
Scherzinger wrote:Separatist Peoples wrote:
OOC: I was giving advice to the author, not communicating with you. ICly and OOCly. I like being on your ignore list.
OOC: so instead of looking at the argument, youre just gonna go straight to my personal parts, pretty ignorant, but whatever, i cant change you, and you wont change me.
by Mundiferrum » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:43 pm
Imperium Anglorum wrote:A Convention on Gender
A resolution to improve worldwide human and civil rights.
Category: Human Rights
Strength: Significant
Proposed by: Sionis Prioratus
Description: AWED by the progress the World Assembly has made in Civil Rights;
AWARE that in spite of said progress, there are still persons who, while free from discrimination, are denied their basic self-sense of personhood & identity, an abuse often beginning in the earliest infancy;
FURTHER AWARE said denials are a source of untold countless horrors, among them depression & suicide;
DESIROUS of eliminating those horrors;
IT IS ESTABLISHED:
1) Definitions:
• “Majoritarian genders (MG)”: The most prevalent genders found on any given sapient species (e.g. female & male) defined not only by genetic and/or anatomical features, but also by cultural roles each culture usually ascribes them. This resolution does not in any way deny that many sapient species do not have dichotomy in gender; but may differ in number of prevalent genders;
• “Intersex persons”: Due to genetic variations, cannot be assigned to any MG by evidence of genetic and/or anatomical features;
• “Transgender persons”: Born in a given MG, their basic self-sense of personhood & identity belong in another MG;
• “Intergender persons”: Self-identify as belonging to more than one MG at once, or not belonging to any MG at all; may express combinations of MG attributes, or none at all; also may have any MG features;
• “Gender-adequation procedure (GAP)”: Medical procedures seeking to assign to intersex, transgender or intergender persons gender-related anatomical and/or genetic features needed to fit in a person-centered adequate gender.
2) No intersex, transgender or intergender person shall be considered diseased by the sole reason of being intersex, transgender or intergender;
3) No nation can prohibit GAPs to intersex, transgender or intergender persons; nor can they be prohibited to travel to other nations for the sole reason of seeking GAPs in said nations; nor can return be denied for the sole reason of having had GAPs;
4) No intersex, transgender or intergender person shall be forced to choose to fit in any gender; persons are free to keep whatever life-compatible features Nature gave them. They shall be recognized as “intersex” (or culturally equivalent gender terms) if documents require gender identification;
5) Full recognition shall be given to gender changes & intersex/gender status in international/national personal documents, if they mention gender;
6) No intersex, transgender or intergender persons of any age shall have GAPs until they are mature enough to make an informed decision regarding their own future;
7) Intersex, transgender & intergender persons shall be:
a) Provided access to a list of expert GAP providers, as well as peer support, before & after GAPs. Said support shall also be provided to intersex, transgender & intergender persons who choose not to have GAPs;
b) Consistently told the truth, within the limits of their advisors’ knowledge and belief (including providers’ honesty about uncertainty) & given copies of their medical records as soon & as often as they ask for them;
c) Allowed to have GAPs after they have been informed of the risks & benefits (plus evidence, or lack thereof, for both).
Votes For: 3,363
Votes Against: 2,560
Implemented Wed Apr 28 2010
[WAR91 on NS] [WAR91 on NSwiki] [Official Debate Topic]
by Separatist Peoples » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:43 pm
by Saciu » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:44 pm
by Scherzinger » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:45 pm
Separatist Peoples wrote:Scherzinger wrote:
OOC: so instead of looking at the argument, youre just gonna go straight to my personal parts, pretty ignorant, but whatever, i cant change you, and you wont change me.
OOC: The roleplaying wasn't personal. Anything directed at you the player was objective fact. You lack the power, one way or another, to do anything about this proposal, and the author need not worry about your support or opposition.
BTW,Scherzinger wrote:First and foremost, the issue of Religion, which, in a good chunk of nations, tends to be the leadership, i.e. theocracies, religious monarchies/republics and so on. In most religions, where God is an almighty figure, and his written word is the law of the land, trannies are forbidden from heaven. This includes homosexuals, actual satanists, capitalists, those who commit crimes, etc. Mutilation of the body is a slap in God's face, as, supposedly, your body, as well as whom you are, is supposed to be God's image of you. While an atheist myself and admittedly somewhat ill-read on religious texts, i am quite familiar with those that gods claim to love and hate. If this proposal becomes law, this would violate the basic freedoms of expression of religion, as well as the ability to follow religious practices freely. Assuming that you follow some of the basic rights that were laws in America, where the 1st Amendment is sacred, you will, simply put, outlaw part of your rights to your people.
OOC: I'm no expert, I've just got a doctorate on this, but I can tell you that this wouldn't constitute a 1st Amendment violation religion. Such a law neither impermissible entangles religion with government nor prohibits the exercise of religion. It would be a law of general applicability. People are free to do as they please in accordance with their religions under this law. Nations may not, but nations don't have substantive individual rights under WA law
by Scherzinger » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:48 pm
by Separatist Peoples » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:49 pm
Scherzinger wrote:
OOC: riiight just like you have a doctorate in every other issue that has come to the table. Look flaunting a piece of paper in my face doesnt really mean that you are always right. Education is replacing an empty mind with an open one. Not replacing an ignorant mind with one that believes its status as a DR. puts him above everybody else, as well as always right.
OOC2: the roleplaying is really just annoying, as it seems as if youre putting your personal insults toward me under enough of an rp veil that the mods wont deem it report worthy, in any case, i would be happy to talk this about with you in TG, and, perhaps hopefully find some sort of peace, but i doubt youll read this part.
by Catsfern » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:54 pm
by Kuominwave » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:55 pm
by Scherzinger » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:58 pm
Separatist Peoples wrote:Scherzinger wrote:
OOC: riiight just like you have a doctorate in every other issue that has come to the table. Look flaunting a piece of paper in my face doesnt really mean that you are always right. Education is replacing an empty mind with an open one. Not replacing an ignorant mind with one that believes its status as a DR. puts him above everybody else, as well as always right.
OOC: You are on Discord? Hit me up in the WA Discord. I'll cheerfully prove it. I suspect it would be easier by far to communicate outside of the clunky telegram system.
In this case, you've misstated US Constitutional Law, which I am pretty well versed in. I'll freely admit that any knowledge on transgender issues comes from sources in which I have no degree.OOC2: the roleplaying is really just annoying, as it seems as if youre putting your personal insults toward me under enough of an rp veil that the mods wont deem it report worthy, in any case, i would be happy to talk this about with you in TG, and, perhaps hopefully find some sort of peace, but i doubt youll read this part.
OOC: This is an IC forum, and your ambassador hasn't done any ambassador-y things. Clearly, ambassadors who deal with this will be frustrated at your lack of compliance or adherence to diplomatic norms. I have little opinion on you one way or another.
by Kenmoria » Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:04 pm
Catsfern wrote:Question, are we permitted to allow the national market for the service of hormone therapy to determine an “affordable price” or will there be a set maximum we will be required to adhere to.
by Separatist Peoples » Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:05 pm
Scherzinger wrote:
Im just sayinig that i doubt it. Ill happily take you at your word for it. While again, im not quite all that fond of you, ive never really believed you a lair. Honestly, i prefer you just TG me your discord info, cause im not going to put what in my opinion is an infectious server on my discord so it can ping me every 3.5 seconds.
If theyre frustrated they can leave it to themselves, not shout it from the rooftops. Instead they can convince me, with honest debate and reasoning, into changing my opinion. Yes, i do as i please here, because most of these laws are a bunch of crud focused on putting ahead a nations personal agend over that of the other side. What you people fail to realise is that there is an opposing side to democracy, but instead of recognizing that, want to slowly force them to democratic nations
by Wallenburg » Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:05 pm
Scherzinger wrote:I despise you just as much, but allow you the same right to talk to me
by United Vegan Communes » Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:14 pm
by Ard al Islam » Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:40 pm
by Ard al Islam » Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:46 pm
by Stalliongrad and Far-Eastern Territories » Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:49 pm
by Separatist Peoples » Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:53 pm
Ard al Islam wrote:Hey, can y'all stop bad mouthing me? I just left the WA so its legislation wouldn't apply to my nation. And that had nothing to do with politics or beliefs; this is a fucking game, for God's sake!
Although I'll admit, I was inspired to do this when representatives from Muslim countries in the real-world UN walked out of a meeting talking about gay rights.
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