[PASSED] Affordable Transgender Hormone Therapy

[Scherzinger]

surely you dont think this is a good idea. Anywhom, there are only 2 genders, and anyone who thinks otherwise has been....removed.....already. I dont believe this will have any effect on our nation's daily routines, even if we are against this....proposal

"Ambassador, it would appear that you are already in violation of GAR#91, as well as several other resolutions. I suggest you reevaluate your national policies, in order to come better in compliance with World Assembly resolutions. We don't want any lengthy trials on our hands, now, do we?"

We here at Fulford are very liberal and have already created this law within our own nation through our parliament, now it is time for the globe to follow!

- Adam Salt, President of Fulford

"I appreciate your support, Mr. President."

We are in violation of more resolutions than ones im actually following, cause most of them are hogwash. We arent gonna change our policies so you can feel better about yourself. We havent really cared much for your opinion anyway to be honest. The WA doesnt really seem interested in leaving dictatorial policies alone. WE will not bend our rulebook so that your feelings dont get hurt.

OOC: There are 2 genders, not 4 not 7 not 36, and i happily accept any condemnation for it, because facts really dont care abouot your personal feelings, and neither do i ^_^

[A Cornstar]

Gender is the new fursona. I'll ignore it because it's a. not real, and b. totes gross. Given sex is not gender it can and should be regulated by different standards. I'd just as soon accept AIDS burgers for school lunches as I would "reassignment"(Bahometism)

(OOC: Your entire argument revolves around gender not being real, which it demonstrably is as can be evidenced by merely observing human civilisation, and gender being gross, which isn’t an argument at all. Lots of surgery is ‘gross’, but very necessary. The General Assembly shouldn’t consider these arguments, and doesn’t appear to agree with you, based on the voting margins.)

That would be social role, gender role is a narrower albeit traditional scope. Carpenters and land lords are social roles not, genders. Gender has been redefined in so many ways and so often that it's become meaningless beyond meaning personality; it's not the same as sex after all. Really I find it closed minded to insist my personality must conform to a specific body type. "I'm good at math, so I must be Asian". That's messed up.

IC: "Whether something is "gross" or not is a piss-poor reason to ban it."

I'm not arguing for a ban, just explaining why I choose to ignore it. I also think mushrooms are gross, so I don't eat them. Out of sight, out of mind, I like to be comfy that way.

[Attanius]

His Majesty, Emperor Floyd, sees this bill as nothing more then an attempt to legislate things that should be left entirely to a private individual. Furthermore, the AOMDR (Attanian Office of Mental Disordee Research), officially has, and will continue to, consider Gender Dysphoria a mental illness that the sufferer of requires assistance of. Leave it to us on how we may help our own.

"So you believe that treatments should be left up to individuals, except when you disagree with the treatments they choose to undergo? Good to know."

"You've severely mistook what we've said. We simply refuse to follow a guideline that is so blatantly illdefined, loose, and endangering as this. Attanius provides support for all those suffering from mental disorders, reguardless of what shape the disorder takes. Therefore it should be left up to our choice as to how we can provide help, forcing anyone who has this issue to undergo surgery or medication without a truely deep investigation, along with therapy, is absolutely against our belief in logic. Your proposal is similar to 'enforcing those with depression into medication', while we only medicate when nessecary and when cosented to."

[Araraukar]

*snip*

OOC: You don't get a condemnation for being willfully ignorant. You just get ignored. And maybe added to the forum iggy list.

[Separatist Peoples]

I'm not arguing for a ban, just explaining why I choose to ignore it. I also think mushrooms are gross, so I don't eat them. Out of sight, out of mind, I like be comfy that way.

"Willfully inoring the plight of a vulnerable population and banning their treatment are effectively the same, ambassador. And I think you know that."

[Savoir]

"Men also naturally have estrogen and women naturally have testosterone, at least in Human species."

"I have listened and seriously considered what others have said, and I have been swayed by their opinions and great reasoning. We are now in favor of this proposal. As you said, men naturally have estrogen in their bodies. Some men are also deficient in testosterone. We have labelled such men in our nation beta males. The government of our nation wishes to see all individuals fulfill their destiny as dictated by their gender identity. As such, we shall enthusiastically provide hormone replacement therapy for beta males to increase their testosterone and suppress their estrogen, thus becoming more manly. Also, we have come to be in favor of transgender individuals. The beauty of the transgender must not perish from this earth."

[Wallenburg]

We are in violation of more resolutions than ones im actually following, cause most of them are hogwash. We arent gonna change our policies so you can feel better about yourself. We havent really cared much for your opinion anyway to be honest. The WA doesnt really seem interested in leaving dictatorial policies alone. WE will not bend our rulebook so that your feelings dont get hurt.

OOC: There are 2 genders, not 4 not 7 not 36, and i happily accept any condemnation for it, because facts really dont care abouot your personal feelings, and neither do i ^_^

OOC: If you refuse to actually RP within the requirements of WA law, why the fuck should anyone listen to your opinion on it?

[Attanius]

A Quote from Ambassador Adams

"Why should the World Assembly allow itself to be swayed by a nation that is incapable of adhering to the promise that all members make upon joining: to adhere to international law duly ratified by majority vote? If you refuse to comply, why should we consider your input? You've clearly no stake in the outcome while we do."

OOC: Often proposals that pass arent this violent on the political, social, or economic axis. This law is not only impossible, it doesnt fit a majority of nations nor players.

[Saciu]

At first, despite wide acceptance of the trans community, Saciu was set to vote against the proposal, as it risked hormones going to very young people forced into transition, which is indubitable child abuse. However, upon further review, highlighting how the word "consenting" has implications of a higher age, Saciu has voted in favour. Even so, the majority of Saciu does not believe in non-binary, or any gender other than male and female.

[Scherzinger]

(OOC: Your entire argument revolves around gender not being real, which it demonstrably is as can be evidenced by merely observing human civilisation, and gender being gross, which isn’t an argument at all. Lots of surgery is ‘gross’, but very necessary. The General Assembly shouldn’t consider these arguments, and doesn’t appear to agree with you, based on the voting margins.)

That would be social role, gender role is a narrower albeit traditional scope. Carpenters and land lords are social roles not, genders. Gender has been redefined in so many ways and so often that it's become meaningless beyond meaning personality; it's not the same as sex after all. Really I find it closed minded to insist my personality must conform to a specific body type. "I'm good at math, so I must be Asian". That's messed up.

IC: "Whether something is "gross" or not is a piss-poor reason to ban it."

I'm not arguing for a ban, just explaining why I choose to ignore it. I also think mushrooms are gross, so I don't eat them. Out of sight, out of mind, I like be comfy that way.

friend, in these times of liberal occupation, all you have to do is tell yourself you are what you say you are. I agree that this crap proposal is nothing more than an OOC attempt to make a political statement and attempt to force it upon those who have a differing opinion. Remember, its not whats factually and scientifically correct, its how loud you can scream it and how much you can insult the other side.

I seriously do not understand the reason this is a thing. You know, in the 1980's probably the last decade where common sense was a thing, there were masculine females and feminine males. There was nothing wrong with that and it wasnt a hot bloody issue. Now people think that they can slap science in the face and come out on top? Sorry, but im against this because i have a brain, not because i hate liberals or so called trans people. I would be literally more than happy to have a civil discussion about this with all of you (perhaps through telegram or discord - Momo Kawashima #6580) but you have to be blind, blunt, or a sheep to really think this proposal is a good move.

[New Sayoni]

I urge you to vote AGAINST this garbage lest you want your very own sons and daughters being given hormone therapy.

"Forbids any member-state from forcing an individual to undergo hormone therapy."

Unless they, presumably legal adults, wanted it. Then...well, they'll just go to a more accepting nation.

Our immigration policy is very lenient, kids.

[Araraukar]

OOC: Often proposals that pass arent this violent on the political, social, or economic axis. This law is not only impossible, it doesnt fit a majority of nations nor players.

OOC: Violent?

[Scherzinger]

OOC: Often proposals that pass arent this violent on the political, social, or economic axis. This law is not only impossible, it doesnt fit a majority of nations nor players.

OOC: Violent?

i believe he means violent in terms of the aggressiveness or the scale of the comment made, not actual bloodshed

[Morover]

1. Something being "real" does not mean it should be encouraged or promoted as sane. Schizophrenics are real. Psychopaths are real. What is the resolution author's point?

"Though all of these things you are mentioning were written by my esteemed co-author, I believe myself to also be fit to respond to these 'criticisms,' if they can even be called that."

2. It is up to the medical community and respective medical guilds of each member to decide what is and isn't an illness. The World Assembly has no business writing into law what does or does not fall under those categories.

"I find that international doctors and scientists in cooperation tend to be more accurate than those of specific nations, especially when it may be seen that those nations create circumstances that may lead their scientists to publish untrue results."

3. If their perceived gender differs from their biological sex then by definition it is not an accurate or "real" perception.

"Uh, yes it is."

4. Directly contradicts point #2. Is this resolution about dyslexia?

"Mental conditions are not mental illnesses, no contradiction there."

5. Yup I guess it is, here the author is repeating himself.

"Reinforcing an idea isn't inherently bad."

6. Another such way is to undergo psychiatric treatment.

"Shouldn't that be up to the individual undergoing treatment?"

It is also important to point out that at no point in this written excrement does the author specify it only applies to ADULTS.

"I recommend you reread the proposal. It specifically says 'consenting' individuals."

Once again the powerful LGBT lobby is attempting to corrupt the youth of nations by imposing their sexual fantasies and fetishes on them. I urge you to vote AGAINST this garbage lest you want your very own sons and daughters being given hormone therapy.

"What?"

-

"Ambassador, it would appear that you are already in violation of GAR#91, as well as several other resolutions. I suggest you reevaluate your national policies, in order to come better in compliance with World Assembly resolutions. We don't want any lengthy trials on our hands, now, do we?"


"I appreciate your support, Mr. President."

We are in violation of more resolutions than ones im actually following, cause most of them are hogwash. We arent gonna change our policies so you can feel better about yourself. We havent really cared much for your opinion anyway to be honest. The WA doesnt really seem interested in leaving dictatorial policies alone. WE will not bend our rulebook so that your feelings dont get hurt.

OOC: There are 2 genders, not 4 not 7 not 36, and i happily accept any condemnation for it, because facts really dont care abouot your personal feelings, and neither do i ^_^

"Ambassador, it would appear that you are already in violation of GAR#91, as well as several other resolutions. I suggest you reevaluate your national policies, in order to come better in compliance with World Assembly resolutions. We don't want any lengthy trials on our hands, now, do we?"

"Ambassador, don't waste your breath. The Scherzingerian delegation has rarely, if ever, succeeded in making an argument of justifiable policy. Their ambassador's one trick is just baiting others with outrageous statements. I live in hope that, one day, the Scherzingerian government will send an ambassador capable of crafting a legal argument and not just proverbially rubbing their ass on the resolution-at-vote. Until then, I can only assume that the Scherzingerian government writ large has all the same political acumen as their disaster of a representative.

OOC: Scherzinger doesn't care to debate. Just rile you up. I promise you that ignoring them is your best bet. After all, they're utterly powerless to effect meaningful opposition.

[Inderlanda3]

This proposal I vote against as many of our nations are religious and even if theyare not religious we will not spend thousands or more in currency when we believe there is 2 genders

[Fushiya]

I sense an imminent repeal in the days to follow.

[Separatist Peoples]

I sense an imminent repeal in the days to follow.

OOC: I suspect not, really. Prior repeals were based on some articulable legal failing, not just policy.

[Ard al Islam]

No. Hell no. I left the WA for this shit.

[Separatist Peoples]

No. Hell no. I left the WA for this shit.

OOC: Then why do you care? You aren't affected.

[Araraukar]

No. Hell no. I left the WA for this shit.

OOC: Goodbye then, you won't be missed.

[A Cornstar]

I'm not arguing for a ban, just explaining why I choose to ignore it. I also think mushrooms are gross, so I don't eat them. Out of sight, out of mind, I like be comfy that way.

"Willfully inoring the plight of a vulnerable population and banning their treatment are effectively the same, ambassador. And I think you know that."

"What makes a man turn neutral? Lust for gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality?"

No. Hell no. I left the WA for this shit.

OOC: Then why do you care? You aren't affected.

schadenfreude?

[Separatist Peoples]

"What makes a man turn neutral? Lust for gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality?"

"Gold, mostly."

[Scherzinger]

OOC: Separatist, i truly think you are an idiot, and someone who likes attempting to belittle others instead of just keeping it to yourself. Although saying this is gonna trigger your sensitivity alarm and im sure youll report it, as you have every other time. Im pretty sure that, while muted, youre still just poking fun of me, which is ok, i can take it, you clearly cant

"Since the ambassador of separatist, as well as others, mostly on the liberal left, believe that we are out of our minds as well as irrelevant in the WA, allow me to give you an actual argument on this hogwash.

When talking about being against gender mutilation/dysphoria/fake change etc, there are an issue i would think makes this law somewhat 'unconstitutional' so to speak, in most of you democracy-loving nations.

First and foremost, the issue of Religion, which, in a good chunk of nations, tends to be the leadership, i.e. theocracies, religious monarchies/republics and so on. In most religions, where God is an almighty figure, and his written word is the law of the land, trannies are forbidden from heaven. This includes homosexuals, actual satanists, capitalists, those who commit crimes, etc. Mutilation of the body is a slap in God's face, as, supposedly, your body, as well as whom you are, is supposed to be God's image of you. While an atheist myself and admittedly somewhat ill-read on religious texts, i am quite familiar with those that gods claim to love and hate. If this proposal becomes law, this would violate the basic freedoms of expression of religion, as well as the ability to follow religious practices freely. Assuming that you follow some of the basic rights that were laws in America, where the 1st Amendment is sacred, you will, simply put, outlaw part of your rights to your people.

A prime example would be the individual who just left the WA. Because i can only assume that this proposal violates the some parts of Islam. While i think its a backwards religion in general, it is still part of the religious argument. Most, if not all religions believe that the gender you are given at birth is the one you live out your life as. Granted, if a man becomes gay or a woman a lesbian, then they no longer religiously acceptable.

If this passes, this also means that, for example, a religious shopkeep who refuses to serve a transgender individual because it goes against their religious beliefs, can now have their business revoked, be shamed by the public, or even arrested and jailed, for expressing their right to religious freedoms. This, i would assume, means that the government either has to unlawfully modify their religion (modifying the law of god would be unacceptable in his eyes), found a new religion, or outlaw religion completely, which results in the changing of the rights that are guaranteed by your citizens.

I might finally add that i for one could simply revoke citizenship, as i already do, to trannies, and take advantage of a huge loophole in the proposal. Forcing me to allow them to keep their citizenship would seem pretty dictatorial in a supposed 'democratic' assembly.

If you are going to force us to follow this bu-humbug, i suggest that you take the time to modify it, so that it allows for a nation to somehow follow this proposal, without having to sacrifice their religious beliefs.

OOC: There, and if somehow you still want to keep at it separatist, well it proves that muting you was probably a solid choice, and my thoughts about you wont really change. On the other hand, i hope that this shows you that i have plenty a mind to argue, im admittedly just too lazy to do so, and dont really like most of you guys anyway lol

[Fushiya]

I sense an imminent repeal in the days to follow.

OOC: I suspect not, really. Prior repeals were based on some articulable legal failing, not just policy.

OOC: Not that it'll be a repeal put to vote, I just sense someone will draft one, from the objections on here.

[Ghosteria]

I mean... If I was the leader of a technologically primitive country I might be against this. However, in my country trans-people can be genetically and/or physically altered into their desired gender/species/machine etc.


However! For those technologically primitive, capitalist countries I feel that this resolution is unfair. So I must vote against it.