MAGAThread XVI: Raising the Barr

[Ifreann]

Can they describe the flying objects?

I can narrow it down to not being Iranian limpet mines.

Clearly you are unfamiliar with the minenwerfer. It werfs minen.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/16/poli ... index.html

A reminder that any attack on Iran would be in violation of international law.

Nicaragua Case II Electric Boogaloo.

[Loben The 2nd]

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/16/politics/mike-pompeo-iran-military-options/index.html

A reminder that any attack on Iran would be in violation of international law.

Nicaragua Case II Electric Boogaloo.

>implying international law really matters

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/16/politics/mike-pompeo-iran-military-options/index.html

A reminder that any attack on Iran would be in violation of international law.

Nicaragua Case II Electric Boogaloo.

>implying international law really matters

Yes it does. International law is a set of promises made among nations, and not keeping your promises is bad form in international relations. Thinking international law does not matter is misunderstanding what the body of law actually is.

The US has always done its best to give its actions a veneer of legality, from Grenada to Iraq. Iran will be no different. They need some legal foothold.

[Hurtful Thoughts]

Where any "no" answer leads inevitably to "therefore it didn't really happen therefore Iran".

Or they are incorrect about the object having anything to do with the attack.

Could’ve been a drone.

And they could've been removing drone-fragments from a dud that went *thump* and became one with the ship's hull.

As for international law issues... America has been at this game for awhile... it even wrote the rules as to what constitutes the difference between a pre-emptive strike and self-defense.... Back in 1836.

Iran didn't exist as a country back in 1836.

[Gormwood]

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/16/politics/mike-pompeo-iran-military-options/index.html

A reminder that any attack on Iran would be in violation of international law.

Nicaragua Case II Electric Boogaloo.

>implying international law really matters

Trying "Murika, FUK YAH!" is only going to result in multilateral sanctions that will hurt.

[The Greater Ohio Valley]

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/16/politics/mike-pompeo-iran-military-options/index.html

A reminder that any attack on Iran would be in violation of international law.

Nicaragua Case II Electric Boogaloo.

>implying international law really matters

>implying that being a pariah State is good.

[Wallenburg]

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/16/politics/mike-pompeo-iran-military-options/index.html

A reminder that any attack on Iran would be in violation of international law.

Nicaragua Case II Electric Boogaloo.

>implying international law really matters

I mean, thanks for saying that you support war criminals out loud.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Or they are incorrect about the object having anything to do with the attack.

Could’ve been a drone.

And they could've been removing drone-fragments from a dud that went *thump* and became one with the ship's hull.

As for international law issues... America has been at this game for awhile... it even wrote the rules as to what constitutes the difference between a pre-emptive strike and self-defense.... Back in 1836.

Iran didn't exist as a country back in 1836.

Yeah, the Caroline Dictum. “The necessity of self-defense was instant, overwhelming, leaving no choice of means, and no moment of deliberation”

This is not self defence anymore. Even so, Iran was there when article 51 of the UN Charter was signed. Not that that somehow matters, so I fail to see what you are trying to say.

(And an independent Persia did exist in 1836)

[Maineiacs]

And they could've been removing drone-fragments from a dud that went *thump* and became one with the ship's hull.

As for international law issues... America has been at this game for awhile... it even wrote the rules as to what constitutes the difference between a pre-emptive strike and self-defense.... Back in 1836.

Iran didn't exist as a country back in 1836.

Yeah, the Caroline Dictum. “The necessity of self-defense was instant, overwhelming, leaving no choice of means, and no moment of deliberation”

This is not self defence anymore. Even so, Iran was there when article 51 of the UN Charter was signed. Not that that somehow matters, so I fail to see what you are trying to say.

(And an independent Persia did exist in 1836)

I'm fairly sure his point was that since Iran was not around in 1836 (or so he mistakenly thought) that international law would somehow not apply. I'm also fairly sure that he'd be wrong there.

[The Rich Port]

When Donald Trump feels the need to retract one of his awful statements... You know it's bad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TW7v5Y2Cexw

I think, more than anything, this is what is going to cost him the next election.

Even the yes man CBS brought on doesn't try to justify it.

"Donald Trump is a rule-breaking maverick... But uh yeah, maybe that's too much rule-breaking."

And of course, he got someone else to take it back for him.

[Hurtful Thoughts]

Iran didn't exist as a country back in 1836.

(And an independent Persia did exist in 1836)

In the same sense that a Capitalist Russia existed in 1891.
-But then 1917 came along on a train and said hello.

Using Persian empire = Iran means Libya, Egypt, and Turkey = Iran

Not exactly the same country... if you're talking about the dirt itself... a people usually doesn't consider dirt and sand alone as a valid form of government.
(and by that metric, America would still technically be just as old as Iran if all we need is a location of dirt and living bodies)

If refering to the people in charge of governing the Persian Empire, the Shah was forced into exile some long time ago. A lot of the treaties signed by the Shahs were torn-up or ignored in the process.

Anyways... the point is... Iran didn't make the rules, they simply agreed to them (sometimes).

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Yeah, the Caroline Dictum. “The necessity of self-defense was instant, overwhelming, leaving no choice of means, and no moment of deliberation”

This is not self defence anymore. Even so, Iran was there when article 51 of the UN Charter was signed. Not that that somehow matters, so I fail to see what you are trying to say.

(And an independent Persia did exist in 1836)

I'm fairly sure his point was that since Iran was not around in 1836 (or so he mistakenly thought) that international law would somehow not apply. I'm also fairly sure that he'd be wrong there.

Yes, that was probably the point, but like you said that is false.

(And an independent Persia did exist in 1836)

In the same sense that a Capitalist Russia existed in 1891.
-But then 1917 came along on a train and said hello.

Using Persian empire = Iran means Libya, Egypt, and Turkey = Iran

Not exactly the same country... if you're talking about the dirt itself... a people usually doesn't consider dirt and sand alone as a valid form of government.
(and by that metric, America would still technically be just as old as Iran if all we need is a location of dirt and living bodies)

If refering to the people in charge of governing the Persian Empire, the Shah was forced into exile some long time ago. A lot of the treaties signed by the Shahs were torn-up or ignored in the process.

Anyways... the point is... Iran didn't make the rules, they simply agreed to them (sometimes).

No-one made the rules. The Caroline Formula was not made by the US, it was made by the Caroline Arbitral Committee to solve the Caroline dispute. During which, mind, it was found that the US had made a wrongful claim and that Britain had rightfully claimed self defence. The US didn’t ‘make’ law, they were simply a party to the arbitration. Besides, it was customary law, so the Committee didn’t even make law, they just reiterated the rule and put it into words.

The law of ‘mare liberum’ was made before the US was a state. So were the rules of state sovereignty. That does not mean they don’t apply to the US. Iran is not a consistent objector to the customary rules of anticipatory self defence, and therefore it applies to them. The same goes for the US.

Also, there is a big difference between thr Persian Empire and 19th century Persia, which just changed its name to become Iran. As you can see from current litigation before the ICJ, the Treaty of Friendship and Amity is still in force.

[Nakena]

(And an independent Persia did exist in 1836)

In the same sense that a Capitalist Russia existed in 1891.
-But then 1917 came along on a train and said hello.

Using Persian empire = Iran means Libya, Egypt, and Turkey = Iran

Not exactly the same country... if you're talking about the dirt itself... a people usually doesn't consider dirt and sand alone as a valid form of government.
(and by that metric, America would still technically be just as old as Iran if all we need is a location of dirt and living bodies)

If refering to the people in charge of governing the Persian Empire, the Shah was forced into exile some long time ago. A lot of the treaties signed by the Shahs were torn-up or ignored in the process.

Anyways... the point is... Iran didn't make the rules, they simply agreed to them (sometimes).

Persia was back then ruled by the Qajar Dynasty which itself got replaced by the Pahlavi Dynasty in 1925 and whose first ruler changed the name of Persia to Iran. This happened prior to the islamist takeover. The Khomeini Regime cancelled several treaties and other stuff that were done under the Pahlavi Dynasty. I'd say that most Qajar stuff was likely gone by that time.

[West Leas Oros 2]

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/16/politics/mike-pompeo-iran-military-options/index.html

A reminder that any attack on Iran would be in violation of international law.

Nicaragua Case II Electric Boogaloo.

>implying international law really matters

*laughs in U.S. Imperialism*

[Duhon]

DEPORTATIONS TO BEGIN

Next week ICE will begin the process of removing the millions of illegal aliens who have illicitly found their way into the United States. They will be removed as fast as they come in. Mexico, using their strong immigration laws, is doing a very good job of stopping people long before they get to our Southern Border. Guatemala is getting ready to sign a Safe-Third Agreement. The only ones who won’t do anything are the Democrats in Congress. They must vote to get rid of the loopholes, and fix asylum! If so, Border Crisis will end quickly!

[West Leas Oros 2]

DEPORTATIONS TO BEGIN

Next week ICE will begin the process of removing the millions of illegal aliens who have illicitly found their way into the United States. They will be removed as fast as they come in. Mexico, using their strong immigration laws, is doing a very good job of stopping people long before they get to our Southern Border. Guatemala is getting ready to sign a Safe-Third Agreement. The only ones who won’t do anything are the Democrats in Congress. They must vote to get rid of the loopholes, and fix asylum! If so, Border Crisis will end quickly!

They haven't begun already?

[Duhon]

DEPORTATIONS TO BEGIN

They haven't begun already?

The rest of that Boston Globe frontpage hasn't become reality yet. Maybe it is now, I'll just go to sleep first, as a reward for concentrating fully on writing almost nonstop

[Salandriagado]

And our only proof of that is the US saying so. In ways that the people who were actually there have called bullshit on.

The video showed them removing a mine, I thought

"Removing" and "placing" are two very different things.

[Tarsonis]

>implying international law really matters

*laughs in U.S. Imperialism*

https://youtu.be/084irEAQrLQ

[Liriena]

DEPORTATIONS TO BEGIN

Next week ICE will begin the process of removing the millions of illegal aliens who have illicitly found their way into the United States. They will be removed as fast as they come in. Mexico, using their strong immigration laws, is doing a very good job of stopping people long before they get to our Southern Border. Guatemala is getting ready to sign a Safe-Third Agreement. The only ones who won’t do anything are the Democrats in Congress. They must vote to get rid of the loopholes, and fix asylum! If so, Border Crisis will end quickly!

I hope he's just desperately making shit up, as usual.

[Gormwood]

Exclusive: Overruling his experts, Pompeo keeps Saudis off U.S. child soldiers list

The Dunning-Kruger Effect continues to be official policy.

[Cannot think of a name]

It doesn't include the word 'wall' though...

The agreement between Senate Appropriations Committee Chairman Richard Shelby, an Alabama Republican, and Vermont Sen. Patrick Leahy, the top Democrat on the panel, includes $2.88 billion for the Department of Health and Human Services to be directed to the Office of Refugee Resettlement, which administration officials warned lawmakers would run out of money by the end of this month without the emergency cash infusion.

[Bombadil]

Well I guess we can see Trump's campaign message for 2020 now..

Trump is the most awesome thing to ever happen to the universe
Democrats are commie traitors

[Major-Tom]

Well I guess we can see Trump's campaign message for 2020 now..

Trump is the most awesome thing to ever happen to the universe
Democrats are commie traitors

Basically more noise to rile up the 40% of voters who will stand by Trump through thick and thin.