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by The United Good » Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:06 pm
by Farnhamia » Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:12 pm
The United Good wrote:Do witches need to pass high school civics? And what about the pledge of allegiance? Could they say, "one country over our dark lord"? And exactly what does this have to do with masterbation?
Could someone explain O'Donnell to me?
by Ashmoria » Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:13 pm
Faith Hope Charity wrote:Alot of people seem to confuse Freedom of Religion with Freedom from Religion... theres a difference. Separation of church and state does not appear in the constitution, or the Bill of Rights. You are free to practice or not practice, no laws can be made regarding such... theres nothing more stated. O'Donnell has a point, and everyone has their own interpretation.
Ya, Jefferson has a letter talking to a friend about it, but I believe even that letter is spun by a specific interpretation.
by Caninope » Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:26 pm
Trotskylvania wrote:West America wrote:
Technically, it really doesn't say anything there about "seperation", only that the government can't establish a state church. I believe it was actually put in there to prevent the government from making a "Church of the United States", along the lines of the Church of England.
No, it doesn't just say that the government can't establish a state religion. It also prohibits the Congress from passing any law prohibiting the free exercise of religion.
These two clauses taken together clearly mandate separation of church and state.
Agritum wrote:Arg, Caninope is Captain America under disguise. Everyone knows it.
Frisivisia wrote:Me wrote:Just don't. It'll get you a whole lot further in life if you come to realize you're not the smartest guy in the room, even if you probably are.
Because Caninope may be in that room with you.
Nightkill the Emperor wrote:Thankfully, we have you and EM to guide us to wisdom and truth, holy one. :p
Norstal wrote:What I am saying of course is that we should clone Caninope.
by Urcea » Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:37 pm
by Vonners » Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:48 pm
Urcea wrote:The Voltania wrote:
Freedom of religion thnx.
While it is an interpretation indeed, Amendment I of X's freedom of religion clause pretty much rules out a national religion.
Establishment of national religion =/= separation of Church and State. The modern usage of SOCAS is that local and state governments, as well as the Federal Government, is and ought to be totally secular, as guaranteed by the Constitution. This is completely false. State and local governments are allowed to establish state-wide official religions if they damn please; Connecticut had one until 1818.
by Urcea » Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:09 pm
Vonners wrote:Urcea wrote:
Establishment of national religion =/= separation of Church and State. The modern usage of SOCAS is that local and state governments, as well as the Federal Government, is and ought to be totally secular, as guaranteed by the Constitution. This is completely false. State and local governments are allowed to establish state-wide official religions if they damn please; Connecticut had one until 1818.
are they? where are these religions? what happened to the one in Connecticut in 1818?
by Vonners » Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:11 pm
Urcea wrote:Vonners wrote:
are they? where are these religions? what happened to the one in Connecticut in 1818?
They changed their Constitution, I think they still may have been using the original charter, don't quote me on that. Are you disputing the ability of state and local governments to have an official religion? You have no Constitutional leg to stand on; in addition, these states do not have an official religion, and are not allowed to display religious symbols (such as the Tenth Amendments) because some weenie cries "It's violating my First Amendment Rights!". The First Amendment doesn't guarantee you the right not to be annoyed by other religions (including Christianity, Islam, etc.). The First Amendment explicitly begins with "CONGRESS shall make no law...", not "CONGRESS AND THE STATES shall makes no law..."
by Ashmoria » Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:15 pm
Urcea wrote:The Voltania wrote:
Freedom of religion thnx.
While it is an interpretation indeed, Amendment I of X's freedom of religion clause pretty much rules out a national religion.
Establishment of national religion =/= separation of Church and State. The modern usage of SOCAS is that local and state governments, as well as the Federal Government, is and ought to be totally secular, as guaranteed by the Constitution. This is completely false. State and local governments are allowed to establish state-wide official religions if they damn please; Connecticut had one until 1818.
by Bluth Corporation » Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:15 pm
Urcea wrote:Vonners wrote:
are they? where are these religions? what happened to the one in Connecticut in 1818?
They changed their Constitution, I think they still may have been using the original charter, don't quote me on that. Are you disputing the ability of state and local governments to have an official religion? You have no Constitutional leg to stand on; in addition, these states do not have an official religion, and are not allowed to display religious symbols (such as the Tenth Amendments) because some weenie cries "It's violating my First Amendment Rights!". The First Amendment doesn't guarantee you the right not to be annoyed by other religions (including Christianity, Islam, etc.). The First Amendment explicitly begins with "CONGRESS shall make no law...", not "CONGRESS AND THE STATES shall makes no law..."
by Urcea » Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:26 pm
Ashmoria wrote:Urcea wrote:
Establishment of national religion =/= separation of Church and State. The modern usage of SOCAS is that local and state governments, as well as the Federal Government, is and ought to be totally secular, as guaranteed by the Constitution. This is completely false. State and local governments are allowed to establish state-wide official religions if they damn please; Connecticut had one until 1818.
no theyre not.
14th ammendment, eh?
by Parnassus » Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:34 pm
by Tekania » Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:40 pm
Jingoist Hippostan wrote:Faith Hope Charity wrote:Alot of people seem to confuse Freedom of Religion with Freedom from Religion... theres a difference. Separation of church and state does not appear in the constitution, or the Bill of Rights. You are free to practice or not practice, no laws can be made regarding such... theres nothing more stated. O'Donnell has a point, and everyone has their own interpretation.
Ya, Jefferson has a letter talking to a friend about it, but I believe even that letter is spun by a specific interpretation.
Here's my theory:
Many people view atheism as a "religion." Probably falsely, although I have run into a few who appear to have blind faith in Richard Dawkins. Nonetheless, if you view atheism as a religion (As O'Donnell probably does) than you could interpret the establishment cause as prohibiting an establishment of all religions, including atheism. Therefore, by not establishing a religion you're establishing atheism, which means you're...
Wow, thinking rarely makes my head hurt this much. I think the pain and the way I keep pausing in typing and saying "Wait..wha..huh?" out loud indicates I'm on the right track for O'Donnell's thoughts.
by Southern Patriots » Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:43 pm
Jingoist Hippostan wrote:Is this thread's title incredibly misleading? Does it imply there's a possibility she didn't? Is it a baseless question designed to attack a speaker?
Does the original post selectively quote the article to support it's point? Is it possible the OP is misinterpreting her actions? Does this thread's discussion question have a blatantly obvious answer that will produce no real debate? Is it simply thinly veiled ad hominem that didn't merit a thread?
Panzerjaeger wrote:Why would Cleopatra have cornrows? She is from Egypt not the goddamn Bronx.
by Schlauberger » Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:20 pm
Urcea wrote:The Fourteenth Amendment argument is bull, and the interpretation thereof is also bull; establishment of a state or local religion in no way necessarily depriving anyone of anything (without due process) and is in no way depriving anyone of equal representation of law. It's such a fallacy, that, frankly, I don't even understand.
by Supreme Marshal Petan » Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:22 pm
by Brandenburg-Altmark » Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:15 pm
by Occupied Deutschland » Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:17 pm
by Ashmoria » Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:21 pm
Urcea wrote:
The Fourteenth Amendment argument is bull, and the interpretation thereof is also bull; establishment of a state or local religion in no way necessarily depriving anyone of anything (without due process) and is in no way depriving anyone of equal representation of law. It's such a fallacy, that, frankly, I don't even understand.
by Brandenburg-Altmark » Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:22 pm
Occupied Deutschland wrote:Did Barney Frank pass High School Economics? ANY Economics?
'' for Harry Reid
'' for Nancy Pelosi
'' for Chuck Schumer
etcetera.
by Vandengaarde » Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:22 pm
by Ashmoria » Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:22 pm
Occupied Deutschland wrote:Did Barney Frank pass High School Economics? ANY Economics?
'' for Harry Reid
'' for Nancy Pelosi
'' for Chuck Schumer
etcetera.
by Conserative Morality » Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:24 pm
Vandengaarde wrote:I hate the generalizations and assumptions at someone's intelligence based on something they said. It could have been a mistake, or perhaps something else, but anything in the air shall be gripped by those wishing to cause chaos and be used as an instrument of propaganda.
by MisanthropicPopulism » Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:25 pm
Ashmoria wrote:Urcea wrote:
The Fourteenth Amendment argument is bull, and the interpretation thereof is also bull; establishment of a state or local religion in no way necessarily depriving anyone of anything (without due process) and is in no way depriving anyone of equal representation of law. It's such a fallacy, that, frankly, I don't even understand.
lololol
that is why we have legal scholars on the supreme court. they understand it very well.
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