Civic Duty and Sausages Too(An Australian Election Thread)

[Liriena]

Fucking Christ.

something something hellworld

[Major-Tom]

Fucking Christ.

something something hellworld

When it comes down to the promise of “lower taxes,” which would really only apply to and benefit the wealthy, or saving the natural environment and combatting climate change, it looks like the former wins out among voters.

[Turbofolkia]

You know what this election proves we need? Voluntary voting. It shouldn't be against the law to refrain from voting.

Voluntary voting means conservatives win by an even bigger margin. It isn’t against the law to refrain from voting. The only obligation you have is to show up and get your name marked off. You can do what you like with your ballot paper afterwards. That’s not onerous at all.

[Turbofolkia]

something something hellworld

When it comes down to the promise of “lower taxes,” which would really only apply to and benefit the wealthy, or saving the natural environment and combatting climate change, it looks like the former wins out among voters.

Abbott said in an interview shortly after conceding defeat that when climate change is framed as a moral issue the left wins, but when it’s framed as an economic issue, the right wins. He seems to be right.

Labor’s biggest mistake was that they had no solid position on Adani. They should have either supported it and won support in Queensland but taken a hit elsewhere, or opposed it, and they would have taken a hit in Queensland but won support elsewhere. Instead they chose to dither which pleased nobody, and that’s reflected in the results. They may well finish the election on few seats than they started. It’s just pathetic. Absolutely pathetic.

[Angora Guanaco]

I guess this also means fuck detailed policy platforms going forward, because any inconsistency, any inability to further parse, anything wrong, it'll be magnified.

Fuck me, that shit's depressing.

This is really what I hate about this result. Labor's policies were detailed and they had a vision and a team but it turns out that's no match for a government who has frankly been one of the most dysfunctional we've had as long as that government runs a scare campaign with no policies of their own.

[Australian rePublic]

I'd like to dedicate this song to Bill Shortan and crew:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IoyvvEWHodk

[Australian rePublic]

I guess this also means fuck detailed policy platforms going forward, because any inconsistency, any inability to further parse, anything wrong, it'll be magnified.

Fuck me, that shit's depressing.

This is really what I hate about this result. Labor's policies were detailed and they had a vision and a team but it turns out that's no match for a government who has frankly been one of the most dysfunctional we've had as long as that government runs a scare campaign with no policies of their own.

Once again, nothing is better than shit. Your shitty policies could be as detailed as you want them, but you're just polishing a turd

[Neu Leonstein]

When it comes down to the promise of “lower taxes,” which would really only apply to and benefit the wealthy, or saving the natural environment and combatting climate change, it looks like the former wins out among voters.

And those tax cuts are never going to actually happen either. The only thing we actually know the Libs can deliver is shady payments to fake barrier reef foundations, dodgy one-man letterbox companies supposedly doing security work for offshore detention and $200m Christmas Island reopenings that last all of two weeks. Other than that, it's standstill for the foreseeable future.

[Angora Guanaco]

This is really what I hate about this result. Labor's policies were detailed and they had a vision and a team but it turns out that's no match for a government who has frankly been one of the most dysfunctional we've had as long as that government runs a scare campaign with no policies of their own.

Once again, nothing is better than shit. Your shitty policies could be as detailed as you want them, but you're just polishing a turd

But it's not like the L/NP has been at all functional in government. They aren't selling nothing, they're selling a government riddled with scandals, with very low female representation and with absolutely no action on climate change or the Murray Darling.

[Almorea]

Looks like the monarchy is safe for now.

[Neu Leonstein]

Looks like the monarchy is safe for now.

The monarchy is honestly not an issue either way. It doesn't hold any political power, given that the functions it currently performs would just be replicated by whatever the alternative is.

Which just leaves the people involved, and QE2 is a popular person. If Republicanism comes up again, it won't be until Charles is king and produced a few major gaffes. Which won't be until after the next election anyway.

[Australian rePublic]

Once again, nothing is better than shit. Your shitty policies could be as detailed as you want them, but you're just polishing a turd

But it's not like the L/NP has been at all functional in government. They aren't selling nothing,

Once again, better than shit

they're selling a government riddled with scandals,

Because the ALP is clean AF

with very low female representation

Refusal to discriminate against people based on their sex

and with absolutely no action on climate change

Absolutely no proposals to put the entirity of Australia into the same position as SA and WA with extreme electrical proces and blackouts.

People aren't as into the leftist bullshit as you are

or the Murray Darling.

And what, if anything, was the ALP's plan for the Murray Darling?

[Angora Guanaco]

But it's not like the L/NP has been at all functional in government. They aren't selling nothing,

Once again, better than shit

they're selling a government riddled with scandals,

Because the ALP is clean AF

with very low female representation

Refusal to discriminate against people based on their sex

and with absolutely no action on climate change

Absolutely no proposals to put the entirity of Australia into the same position as SA and WA with extreme electrical proces and blackouts.

People aren't as into the leftist bullshit as you are

or the Murray Darling.

And what, if anything, was the ALP's plan for the Murray Darling?

Obviously the ALP's Rudd-Gillard-Rudd wasn't great, but the Coalition has had leadership issues as well. Add to this George Christensen's Phillipine stuff, Barnaby's sex scandal, Bronwyn Bishop's helicopter ride etc etc.

The Coalition's "refusal to discriminate" has resulted in (at the 2016 election) only 20% of their Reps seats being held by women.

Honestly the ALP's plan for the Murray looks pretty small (basically renegotiating things) but here I still think they come out ahead from their climate change policy.

But even after all this it turns out that when you ceaselessly attack sensible policy the average voter starts to think it's "leftist bullshit" and votes L/NP.

[Australian rePublic]

Once again, better than shit


Because the ALP is clean AF


Refusal to discriminate against people based on their sex


Absolutely no proposals to put the entirity of Australia into the same position as SA and WA with extreme electrical proces and blackouts.

People aren't as into the leftist bullshit as you are


And what, if anything, was the ALP's plan for the Murray Darling?

Obviously the ALP's Rudd-Gillard-Rudd wasn't great, but the Coalition has had leadership issues as well. Add to this George Christensen's Phillipine stuff, Barnaby's sex scandal, Bronwyn Bishop's helicopter ride etc etc.

Didn't seem to bother the public

The Coalition's "refusal to discriminate" has resulted in (at the 2016 election) only 20% of their Reps seats being held by women.

Yea, and?

Honestly the ALP's plan for the Murray looks pretty small (basically renegotiating things) but here I still think they come out ahead from their climate change policy.

People care more about cheap reliable electricty than climate change. Considering that all of Billy's climate policies were anti-coal. People, who had seen that the anti-coal agenda lead to black outs and srupidly high power prices in SA and VIC prefer electricity to climate change policy. Not to mention the electric car bullshit, which shat off lots of people

But even after all this it turns out that when you ceaselessly attack sensible policy the average voter starts to think it's "leftist bullshit" and votes L/NP.

Your entire job as a political campaigner is to refute the policies of your opponate. The very fact that Billy didn't do that either means that he failed at his job at campaigning for the ALP or he knew that ScoMo was right. Billy was opposition leader for a really long time, so I don't think that the former is the case, which must mean that the later, knowing that ScoMo was right, must have been the case. You can't exactly argue against someone who's right.

This brings me back to my original point- nothing is better than shit. With LNP, I might not be swimming in a river of gold bars floating in it, but I sure as hell would prefer to swim in the river of just water than the river with shit floating in it

[Duhon]

Once again, better than shit


Because the ALP is clean AF


Refusal to discriminate against people based on their sex


Absolutely no proposals to put the entirity of Australia into the same position as SA and WA with extreme electrical proces and blackouts.

People aren't as into the leftist bullshit as you are


And what, if anything, was the ALP's plan for the Murray Darling?

Obviously the ALP's Rudd-Gillard-Rudd wasn't great, but the Coalition has had leadership issues as well. Add to this George Christensen's Phillipine stuff, Barnaby's sex scandal, Bronwyn Bishop's helicopter ride etc etc.

The Coalition's "refusal to discriminate" has resulted in (at the 2016 election) only 20% of their Reps seats being held by women.

Honestly the ALP's plan for the Murray looks pretty small (basically renegotiating things) but here I still think they come out ahead from their climate change policy.

But even after all this it turns out that when you ceaselessly attack sensible policy the average voter starts to think it's "leftist bullshit" and votes L/NP.

What this boils down to is "Let us have our turn pretty pleeeeeease" -- a shit look, yo.

[Angora Guanaco]

But even after all this it turns out that when you ceaselessly attack sensible policy the average voter starts to think it's "leftist bullshit" and votes L/NP.

Your entire job as a political campaigner is to refute the policies of your opponate. The very fact that Billy didn't do that either means that he failed at his job at campaigning for the ALP or he knew that ScoMo was right. Billy was opposition leader for a really long time, so I don't think that the former is the case, which must mean that the later, knowing that ScoMo was right, must have been the case. You can't exactly argue against someone who's right.

This brings me back to my original point- nothing is better than shit. With LNP, I might not be swimming in a river of gold bars floating in it, but I sure as hell would prefer to swim in the river of just water than the river with shit floating in it

I disagree with the idea that campaigning is only about refuting the polices of your opponent. It's also about providing polices and a vision of your own for the country, something that I think Labor did better. And really, I'd prefer to vote for a party that runs a positive campaign rather than one that merely tries to discredit it's opponent without providing a good policy agenda.

On policy, I think that the Labor polices were good, and you don't. I really don't think we're going to change each other's minds on that but I do think there is an interesting conversation to be had about how the Australian public sees them. I think that like Labor's Mediscare campaign last election the Coalition misrepresented Labor's policy positions and that it how the Australian public voted.

[Turbofolkia]

I think that like Labor's Mediscare campaign last election the Coalition misrepresented Labor's policy positions and that it how the Australian public voted.

I think that's the crux of it. Scare campaigns have proven to be very potent. Like with WorkChoices in 2007,"stop the boats" in 2013, Mediscare in 2016, and now this.

Not that Labor isn't blameless (the Adani Convoy and Shorten's general dithering on the issue was the height of stupidity), but it certainly doesn't bode well for how future elections will be campaigned.

[200th Division]

Glad that the Liberal Party won! I can't stand how the Labor opposition had a plan to remove superfunds which would've not helped us at all.. The Labor Party, in the end, didn't present us an honest campaign nor the promises that sounded realistic to me at all but after all, ScoMo is good in my own sense. Someone we need.

[Neu Leonstein]

Glad that the Liberal Party won! I can't stand how the Labor opposition had a plan to remove superfunds which would've not helped us at all..

You're taking the piss, right? There was no plan to remove superfunds. Are you one of those people in chaser 'this person votes' ads?

[Australian rePublic]

Your entire job as a political campaigner is to refute the policies of your opponate. The very fact that Billy didn't do that either means that he failed at his job at campaigning for the ALP or he knew that ScoMo was right. Billy was opposition leader for a really long time, so I don't think that the former is the case, which must mean that the later, knowing that ScoMo was right, must have been the case. You can't exactly argue against someone who's right.

This brings me back to my original point- nothing is better than shit. With LNP, I might not be swimming in a river of gold bars floating in it, but I sure as hell would prefer to swim in the river of just water than the river with shit floating in it

I disagree with the idea that campaigning is only about refuting the polices of your opponent. It's also about providing polices and a vision of your own for the country, something that I think Labor did better. And really, I'd prefer to vote for a party that runs a positive campaign rather than one that merely tries to discredit it's opponent without providing a good policy agenda.

On policy, I think that the Labor polices were good, and you don't. I really don't think we're going to change each other's minds on that but I do think there is an interesting conversation to be had about how the Australian public sees them. I think that like Labor's Mediscare campaign last election the Coalition misrepresented Labor's policy positions and that it how the Australian public voted.

Yea. I shoulda worded it better. Instead of "entire", I shoulda said "major". Either case, ALP ran "Mediscare" and the LNP overturned their decision. The ALP ran a campaign about ScoMo cutting penalty rates, and the LNP ran a campaign about more jobs. The LNP ran a campaign about Shortan's taxes, and the ALP's respons was chirping crickets. Failure to refute the LNP's scare tactics probs lost the ALP the election. Don't forget, people are dumb

[Beggnig]

I'm not surprised Shorten lost. His "That's such a dumb question" play on Q&A was bad enough, let alone going on to call those who disagree with him 'knuckle draggers'. It's never a dumb question to ask the cost of a policy proposal. He came off as an arrogant person filled with vitriol for the community.

[Jack Thomas Lang]

I think the problem with Labour, and honestly many climate aware political parties is that they don't focus on how the government can transition to the economy to renewable's while also helping people cope with lost jobs (coal miners for example). Instead they go for the moral argument, or "the children will PAY" which might work on wealthy suburbanites, but certainly doesn't do it for regional voters.

[Turbofolkia]

I'm not surprised Shorten lost. His "That's such a dumb question" play on Q&A was bad enough, let alone going on to call those who disagree with him 'knuckle draggers'. It's never a dumb question to ask the cost of a policy proposal. He came off as an arrogant person filled with vitriol for the community.

Don't forget Chris Bowen saying that "people should vote for someone else if they don't agree with all of our policies", or words to that effect. Honestly, I want to see Labor win, I think the country does better under Labor, but it's depressing when they put up such duds who couldn't win a chook raffle if they bought all the tickets.

I just hope the next leader will be someone half-competent who can win back Labor heartland. This country can't afford to have the Liberals keep on winning through another repeat of the Beazley/Crean/Latham disasters.

[Turbofolkia]

I think the problem with Labour, and honestly many climate aware political parties is that they don't focus on how the government can transition to the economy to renewable's while also helping people cope with lost jobs (coal miners for example). Instead they go for the moral argument, or "the children will PAY" which might work on wealthy suburbanites, but certainly doesn't do it for regional voters.

Yes, that's certainly true. I was very disappointed that Shorten was so indecisive on Adani because he wanted to play both sides. The Stop Adani convoy was incredibly tin-eared as well.

[Duhon]

I think the problem with Labour, and honestly many climate aware political parties is that they don't focus on how the government can transition to the economy to renewable's while also helping people cope with lost jobs (coal miners for example). Instead they go for the moral argument, or "the children will PAY" which might work on wealthy suburbanites, but certainly doesn't do it for regional voters.

To be fair, the economic arguments for transitioning out of fossil fuels and into a green economy sound crazy -- and in fact don't make sense economically. Fact is, it's very easy for policymakers to find themselves on the wrong side of the economic lodger when tackling responses to climate change, if they keep to themselves.