Sex Strike? Understand your opposition

[Scomagia]

Of course Lysistrata is set in 411 BC, when in reality the war continued another 7 years, and Athens got wrecked...

And even then, Lysistrata wasn't just a sex strike. The women of Athens and Sparta needed to accompany that sex strike with an occupation of the Acropolis and the treasury of Athens. The women knew and understood that a sex strike alone wouldn't have stopped the men from merely forcing themselves onto their women, they had to keep the men away from them by literally barricading themselves behind the gates of the Acropolis and they had to keep the men from being able to fund their wars. This doesn't seem to be what Alyssa Milano's suggesting. Honestly if she and a couple thousand women want to storm the Georgia legislature building and literally keep the men out while accompanying it with a sex strike that would be a lot more compelling, and more true to form to the events of Lysistrata.

I mean, do you think she's actually read it?

[Vetalia]

I mean, do you think she's actually read it?

No, she's as dumb as dogshit.

[Ors Might]

Lesser evils are still evils though. Evil should be fought, even if there is a greater one somewhere.

Absolutely no disagreement there. Sometimes a lesser evil's necessary, though, to prevent a greater one, as history's shown countless times.

That same history would also show that people use the term “lesser evil” when they actually mean the easier path. Regardless, if your striking involves intentionally harming innocent people, you can’t declare yourself to be in the right.

[The Black Forrest]

Absolutely no disagreement there. Sometimes a lesser evil's necessary, though, to prevent a greater one, as history's shown countless times.

That same history would also show that people use the term “lesser evil” when they actually mean the easier path. Regardless, if your striking involves intentionally harming innocent people, you can’t declare yourself to be in the right.

Hmmmmm? People who complain about "lessor evil" tend to take the easier path as well.

I know a guy who routinely uses the phrase and once declared he wasn't going to do it as he was going to vote libertarian.

Asked if he worked on the campaign and heard the excuses why he couldn't.

Voting as with talk is easy.

[Kowani]

Absolutely no disagreement there. Sometimes a lesser evil's necessary, though, to prevent a greater one, as history's shown countless times.

That same history would also show that people use the term “lesser evil” when they actually mean the easier path. Regardless, if your striking involves intentionally harming innocent people, you can’t declare yourself to be in the right.

Tell me how to win WWII without bombers and collateral damage, please.

[Ors Might]

That same history would also show that people use the term “lesser evil” when they actually mean the easier path. Regardless, if your striking involves intentionally harming innocent people, you can’t declare yourself to be in the right.

Hmmmmm? People who complain about "lessor evil" tend to take the easier path as well.

I know a guy who routinely uses the phrase and once declared he wasn't going to do it as he was going to vote libertarian.

Asked if he worked on the campaign and heard the excuses why he couldn't.

Voting as with talk is easy.

True. However, not negatively impacting innocent people will always be more justifiable than the opposite. Difficulty isn’t an excuse.

[Pasong Tirad]

And even then, Lysistrata wasn't just a sex strike. The women of Athens and Sparta needed to accompany that sex strike with an occupation of the Acropolis and the treasury of Athens. The women knew and understood that a sex strike alone wouldn't have stopped the men from merely forcing themselves onto their women, they had to keep the men away from them by literally barricading themselves behind the gates of the Acropolis and they had to keep the men from being able to fund their wars. This doesn't seem to be what Alyssa Milano's suggesting. Honestly if she and a couple thousand women want to storm the Georgia legislature building and literally keep the men out while accompanying it with a sex strike that would be a lot more compelling, and more true to form to the events of Lysistrata.

I mean, do you think she's actually read it?

Do I think she understands just how nuanced Aristophanes' Lysistrata, a text that is over 2000 years old, is? She's had some theater training, so I would assume that that she would have at least read it. Understanding that keeping your legs crossed alone isn't going to stop people and that the sex strike has to be a mass movement and not as, how she's portraying it, individual women simply saying no to men, isn't going to change a lot. The women of Lysistrata knew this, that's why they barricaded themselves out of the reach of men and took their money with them. An admirable approach, to be sure, but a futile one if it's treated more as an individual choice and less of a general strike that Lysistrata actually is.

[Nova Cyberia]

>tfw your only leverage in life is a hole between your legs

[Scomagia]

I mean, do you think she's actually read it?

Do I think she understands just how nuanced Aristophanes' Lysistrata, a text that is over 2000 years old, is? She's had some theater training, so I would assume that that she would have at least read it. Understanding that keeping your legs crossed alone isn't going to stop people and that the sex strike has to be a mass movement and not as, how she's portraying it, individual women simply saying no to men, isn't going to change a lot. The women of Lysistrata knew this, that's why they barricaded themselves out of the reach of men and took their money with them. An admirable approach, to be sure, but a futile one if it's treated more as an individual choice and less of a general strike that Lysistrata actually is.

Having theatre training doesn't mean she's familiar with Ancient Greek plays. That's like saying a film actor is necessarily familiar with The Godfather script. Maybe, maybe not. In this case, she doesn't seem to be acting like someone who has read the play, otherwise she'd be aware of how far short this "sex strike" falls by comparison.

[Pasong Tirad]

Do I think she understands just how nuanced Aristophanes' Lysistrata, a text that is over 2000 years old, is? She's had some theater training, so I would assume that that she would have at least read it. Understanding that keeping your legs crossed alone isn't going to stop people and that the sex strike has to be a mass movement and not as, how she's portraying it, individual women simply saying no to men, isn't going to change a lot. The women of Lysistrata knew this, that's why they barricaded themselves out of the reach of men and took their money with them. An admirable approach, to be sure, but a futile one if it's treated more as an individual choice and less of a general strike that Lysistrata actually is.

Having theatre training doesn't mean she's familiar with Ancient Greek plays. That's like saying a film actor is necessarily familiar with The Godfather script. Maybe, maybe not. In this case, she doesn't seem to be acting like someone who has read the play, otherwise she'd be aware of how far short this "sex strike" falls by comparison.

That's not true. Theater training starts with understanding where theater was born. I've been reading Greek plays since my first playwriting class. Theater acting classes begin with understanding ancient Greek acting. That's how theater - and film, by extension - is taught: through understanding past good films and theater productions. So yeah it should be a given that if you're a good theater actor you have at the very least a basic understanding of Greek plays, in much the same way that if you're a film actor you should be studying past good films like The Godfather to understand why they're good.

In any case, as far as I can tell, Alyssa Milano didn't take up acting in college or anything so she probably hasn't taken up Greek satire.

[Novus America]

Do I think she understands just how nuanced Aristophanes' Lysistrata, a text that is over 2000 years old, is? She's had some theater training, so I would assume that that she would have at least read it. Understanding that keeping your legs crossed alone isn't going to stop people and that the sex strike has to be a mass movement and not as, how she's portraying it, individual women simply saying no to men, isn't going to change a lot. The women of Lysistrata knew this, that's why they barricaded themselves out of the reach of men and took their money with them. An admirable approach, to be sure, but a futile one if it's treated more as an individual choice and less of a general strike that Lysistrata actually is.

Having theatre training doesn't mean she's familiar with Ancient Greek plays. That's like saying a film actor is necessarily familiar with The Godfather script. Maybe, maybe not. In this case, she doesn't seem to be acting like someone who has read the play, otherwise she'd be aware of how far short this "sex strike" falls by comparison.

If she was familiar with it she should be aware it was a fictitious satirical comedy, the events depicted in the play never actually happened. The “strike” in the play was not intended to be successful IRL.

In reality the play had no impact on the war of course.

So it would be attempting to emulate a purely fictional event in a satire that never happened while not actually understanding the fictional event in the first place.

[Bienenhalde]

Edwardian feminists, such as Christabel Pankhurst, took up the social purity cause and demanded that men improve their moral code by remaining chaste outside marriage. Although feminists achieved a small victory in repealing CDAs, the campaign to raise moral standards can be considered to have failed miserably. Today sex before marriage is accepted by the majority of people living in Britain, a fact that would have dismayed these early reformers.

Sad that modern-day feminists have been corrupted by immoral "sex positive" ideology and no longer advocate such views.

[Costa Fierro]

>tfw your only leverage in life is a hole between your legs

That's the thing though. We've reduced women down to the point where the only thing going for them is their genitalia, and that's it. Modern feminism has its entire basis in a woman's sexual leverage, because nothing supposedly controls men more than their sexual drive. Control men's access to sex, you control men. It's sexist to both men and women.

It's ironic, really. We keep being told that women are worth more than their genitalia but we're also told that women need to be treated differently because of it.

[Unia Ante]

For one, this does not seem to retaliate against the problem at hand. I don't think that people not having sex is gonna hurt conservatives. That's what they want. Second, I really don't see how this helps anything.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

[Tahar Joblis]

Of course Lysistrata is set in 411 BC, when in reality the war continued another 7 years, and Athens got wrecked...

And even then, Lysistrata wasn't just a sex strike. The women of Athens and Sparta needed to accompany that sex strike with an occupation of the Acropolis and the treasury of Athens. The women knew and understood that a sex strike alone wouldn't have stopped the men from merely forcing themselves onto their women, they had to keep the men away from them by literally barricading themselves behind the gates of the Acropolis and they had to keep the men from being able to fund their wars. This doesn't seem to be what Alyssa Milano's suggesting. Honestly if she and a couple thousand women want to storm the Georgia legislature building and literally keep the men out while accompanying it with a sex strike that would be a lot more compelling, and more true to form to the events of Lysistrata.

Lysistrata wasn't a historical documentary.

I wouldn't say that sex strikes can never work. (Note this included paying prostitutes to be part of the sex strike and taking steps to try to enlist the cooperation of wives of politicians.) In any protest, though, you need to have a clear set of actionable demands that can be met by the people that you are able to punish. (In this case, the people responsible literally would like most pro-choice women to abstain from having sex, which is to say that they aren't being punished by a sex strike by pro-choice women.)

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Yeah, I was wondering what did my SO had to do with any of it, that I should withhold sex from him, due to this law. And the answer is: nothing. So why should we punish men, in general, for what GA lawmakers decided to do?

To fight the patriarchal hivemind, of course. /s

I guess my only true power as a female member of society comes from my mighty vagina. This oh so magical hoohah that enacts societal change, according to Milano, by depriving sex hungry manapes of my coital wonderland. It spews glitter and rainbows too, I guess.

[Ethel mermania]

To fight the patriarchal hivemind, of course. /s

I guess my only true power as a female member of society comes from my mighty vagina. This oh so magical hoohah that enacts societal change, according to Milano, by depriving sex hungry manapes of my coital wonderland. It spews glitter and rainbows too, I guess.

Hold the glitter, much like sand, glitter is highly overrated in the sexual experience.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I guess my only true power as a female member of society comes from my mighty vagina. This oh so magical hoohah that enacts societal change, according to Milano, by depriving sex hungry manapes of my coital wonderland. It spews glitter and rainbows too, I guess.

Hold the glitter, much like sand, glitter is highly overrated in the sexual experience.

Not a fan of too much friction, I take it?

[Farnhamia]

Hold the glitter, much like sand, glitter is highly overrated in the sexual experience.

Not a fan of too much friction, I take it?

Men never do get it.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Not a fan of too much friction, I take it?

Men never do get it.

It flies above their noggins.

[Novus America]

And even then, Lysistrata wasn't just a sex strike. The women of Athens and Sparta needed to accompany that sex strike with an occupation of the Acropolis and the treasury of Athens. The women knew and understood that a sex strike alone wouldn't have stopped the men from merely forcing themselves onto their women, they had to keep the men away from them by literally barricading themselves behind the gates of the Acropolis and they had to keep the men from being able to fund their wars. This doesn't seem to be what Alyssa Milano's suggesting. Honestly if she and a couple thousand women want to storm the Georgia legislature building and literally keep the men out while accompanying it with a sex strike that would be a lot more compelling, and more true to form to the events of Lysistrata.

Lysistrata wasn't a historical documentary.

I wouldn't say that sex strikes can never work. (Note this included paying prostitutes to be part of the sex strike and taking steps to try to enlist the cooperation of wives of politicians.) In any protest, though, you need to have a clear set of actionable demands that can be met by the people that you are able to punish. (In this case, the people responsible literally would like most pro-choice women to abstain from having sex, which is to say that they aren't being punished by a sex strike by pro-choice women.)

Yes, as I pointed out several times in reality the war end years later when the Spartan Navy destroyed the Athenian one.
It was naval warfare, not sex strikes that ended the war, when Athens got wrecked and forced to surrender.
Lysistrata is a fictional satire/comedy. What happens in the play never happened in reality.

The “sex strikes” in Africa also involved women refusing to cook and clean.
Obviously the African “sex strikes” only happen in a deeply traditional system in which the women’s role is domestic, and men unwilling or unable to cook their own food.

And as you point out, it only works if nearly all women can mobilize towards a single objective.

Of course in the West women have at least half the votes.
So if they were actually united around something that would be enough.

As pointed out, abortion on demand is not something that unites women, rather women are very divided on the subject.

Feminists not having sex will not in change the votes of anti abortion women, nor anti abortion men.
So it is just pointless.

[Pasong Tirad]

And even then, Lysistrata wasn't just a sex strike. The women of Athens and Sparta needed to accompany that sex strike with an occupation of the Acropolis and the treasury of Athens. The women knew and understood that a sex strike alone wouldn't have stopped the men from merely forcing themselves onto their women, they had to keep the men away from them by literally barricading themselves behind the gates of the Acropolis and they had to keep the men from being able to fund their wars. This doesn't seem to be what Alyssa Milano's suggesting. Honestly if she and a couple thousand women want to storm the Georgia legislature building and literally keep the men out while accompanying it with a sex strike that would be a lot more compelling, and more true to form to the events of Lysistrata.

Lysistrata wasn't a historical documentary.

I wouldn't say that sex strikes can never work. (Note this included paying prostitutes to be part of the sex strike and taking steps to try to enlist the cooperation of wives of politicians.) In any protest, though, you need to have a clear set of actionable demands that can be met by the people that you are able to punish. (In this case, the people responsible literally would like most pro-choice women to abstain from having sex, which is to say that they aren't being punished by a sex strike by pro-choice women.)

Never claimed it as such. Because of course not. In Lysistrata the Peloponnesian War ends because the woman known as Peace comes into the stage, buck naked, young and beautiful, and the men, entranced and lusting over her naked body, agree to peace because they're too horny to say no. By "women of Athens and Sparta," I meant of course Lysistrata and her compatriots in the play, Kalonike and Myrrhine, etc.

[Ethel mermania]

Men never do get it.

It flies above their noggins.

If it were just above, everything would be fine.

[Stagnant Axon Terminal]

As a georgia resident, I'm not going on a sex strike for about 20 reasons. But you know what would work?
Burning the entire goddamn state to the ground. So count me in for that.