1906: Alternative Divergence [AH][OOC-DEAD]

by **Benuty** » Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:56 pm

Of Leben wrote:
Benuty wrote:Well to be fair I would still imagine the Mongolians would break apart into multiple empires (regardless of a success in China or not). The breaking pretty much was set into stone following Genghis’s death. Even under Kublai he was only nominally sovereign of the other Mongolian controlled areas. As such any area far enough might as well practically become independent.

We should work out our history sir.

Indeed, so what did you have in mind?

by **Benuty** » Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:03 pm

I suspect due to Russia's isolation from the support of the mainline church they may no longer be Chalcedonian. At least how other Chalcedonians might see them, and this has happened before. The Celtic Christians during the Anglo-Saxon conquests basically began to transform into their own church following the loss of contact from Rome. I see no reason why the same wouldn't happen in the Rus especially with the Mongolians adopting a branch of Christianity not exactly glowing with approval from the mainstream faith.

by **Pasong Tirad** » Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:58 pm

Full Nation Name : The Empire of Ethiopia (የኢትዮጵያ ንጉሠ ነገሥት መንግሥተ / Ye’ītiyop’iya Niguše Negešiti Menigišite), popularly known by much of the west as Abyssinia (አቢሲኒያ / Ābīsīnīya), and referred to colloquially by its own inhabitants as The Horn (ቀንድ / K’enidi).

Majority/Official Culture : Ethiopian, though it has to be stressed that this "national identity" is nominal and has only recently begun being enforced through strict Amharic schooling, much to the chagrin of the other peoples of the empire, and only those living in the Imperial capital of Addis Ababa and the crown province of Shewa will undoubtedly consider themselves as Ethiopian first. With the empire's multi-ethnic mass and with the empire only beginning to centralize and rise out of its feudal past, many peoples still consider themselves to be Amharic first or Oromo first or Somali first and Ethiopian second. The five largest ethnic groups of the empire are the Amharic, the Oromo, the Somali, the Tigrayans (Eritreans), and the Ethiopian Jews.

Territorial Core :

Territorial Claim :

The empire claims to rule all of the people it believes to be Ethiopian, which means that it claims lands north and south of the current borders of Ethiopia. Thus, they have claims on Tigrinyan land held the Eastern Romans, land that is also inhabited by Somalis and the Oromo, and, most importantly, land surrounding Lake Tana that is considered rightful Amharic land, land which the empire gave up in order to keep the peace with the Eastern Romans. The empire also technically has an ancient claim on most of Yemen due to the empire's lineage as the supposed successor state to the Kingdom of Aksum, although this claim is even weaker than its claims on the lands adjacent to the current empire in the Horn. While all of these claims are not enforced, the empire is unable to get rid of these claims as these form part of the backbone of the legitimacy of the monarchy.

Capital City : Addis Ababa, located at the heart of the Imperial province of Shewa, the lands that, before the abolition of feudalism, were controlled directly by the emperor due to his title as Negus of Shewa. It was established in 1886 by the late Empress Taytu Betul due to a need to create a permanent capital for the empire. It has since grown to be the bustling commercial and political heart of the empire, boasting many firsts in the Horn, such as the first university in the region, the first railroads, and the first telegraph lines, among others.

Population : Approximately 20 million people. 7 million Amharas, 5 million Oromos, 3 million Somalis, 2 million Tigrayans, a million Ethiopian Jews, and 2 million people of other ethnic groups. The capital of Addis Ababa alone holds a little over a million people, with slightly under half of them being of Amharic descent.

Government Type : Semi-constitutional monarchy.
Government Ideology/Policies : Ethiopian Nationalism, Orthodox Tewahedo Traditionalism, Anti-colonialism, Reformism

Government Focus : The reign of Empress Zewditu is focused on the continuation of the reforms of her father, Menelik II The Great. Fearing that they may soon fall under the influence - or worse, the colonization of her lands - of foreigners, Zewditu is determined to make sure this does not happen by maintaining the current territorial integrity of her empire and the rapid modernization of her military and economy. During her reign, The Horn will modernize - or it will perish.

Head of State : Atse (Empress) Zewditu

The 29-year old Queen of Kings is the first regnant empress the Horn has crowned. Following the death of her father in the aftermath of the civil war, she has taken up the mantle of empress since 1902 and is now entering the fourth year of her reign. Her reign has been marked with the continuation of her father Menelik II The Great's attempts at modernization and political reforms, but this time with no organized political or military force opposed to her rule.

Head of Government : Reise Mekwanint Habte Giyorgis Dinagde, who has served as Chief Minister since the position was created in 1900, and has served as the top adviser to the Negusa Nagast since the reign of Menelik II The Great. Originally a nobleman, as part of the reforms of Menelik II he was stripped of his noble title in order to fully integrate him into the Mekwanint, which is supposed to be a legislative body made up of the common people.

Government Description : Thanks to the reforms instituted by the Menelik II the Great before and after the civil war, through compromise and sheer willpower the emperor was able to create a proper, modern government for Ethiopia consisting of an almost fully-elected lower house and an appointed upper house, which both serve as the main legislative as well as judicial arms of the empire.

The lower house, known as the Mekwanint or the Council of Ministers, is the main legislative body of the empire, inspired by lower houses of many European monarchies. Virtually all of the council is composed of representatives directly elected by the provinces based on population, save for the twenty-two ministers directly appointed by the governors of the twenty-two provinces. The minister appointed by the emperor from the province of Shewa automatically serves as Reise Mekwanint (Chief Minister) and acts as Head of Government. The Mekwanint has virtually all the powers of a modern Western parliament, and is comparable to the British House of Commons in terms of strength, save for a few caveats.

The power of the Mekwanint is balanced by an indirectly-elected upper house known as the Mesafint, or the Council of Princes. The council is in turn subdivided into two: the various kings, princes, and sultans (in the case of the Somalis) of the twenty-two provinces are the most powerful members of the Mesafint and they as a whole body control the council; and all of the rest of the members of the council, which are composed primarily of the adult male representatives sent by the dozens upon dozens of noble houses of the empire, a councilor that acts as a representative of a "people," or an ethnic group in the empire, and three ministers that serve as the representative of the three main religions of the empire: Tewahedo Christianity, Sunni Islam, and Judaism. They serve as the imperial check on the power of the Mekwanint as well as the supreme court of the empire. The noble houses and sectors represented by the Mesafint choose which representative they send at their own discretion. The religious groups merely look to their head to appoint someone, the noble houses convene to discuss whom to send, and the peoples have been holding small elections to decide which delegates will choose among themselves who to send to the Mesafint.

For the executive arm of the empire, the twenty-two provinces of the Horn are directly governed by their respective Negus, with the power of the Negus being limited in the aftermath of the civil war. Now, the Negus is unable to directly control the purse of the province and instead has to defer all actions to an elected Enderase, or governor. Enderase means "regent of the crown," which entails that the enderase is directly appointed by the emperor on the advice of the people of the province. The negus still holds significant power in their province, however, as they still have the power to veto any proposals brought up by the enderase. During impasses, the two must meet together and come up with a solution and if no solution is found then the Negusa Nagast steps in on their behalf. The province of Shewa, being directly controlled by the crown, has an enderase of its own but one that is appointed by the emperor.

Majority/State Religion : Ethiopian Orthodox, known as the Tewahedo Church

Religious Description : The religion of the empire is mandated to be the Tewahedo Church, with the emperor being crowned as the Elect of God and serving as Defender of the Faith. However, the two other Abrahamic faiths of the empire are tolerated to an extent - a large Ethiopian Jewish community is present in the north of the empire, and much of the Somali and Afar populations in the eastern and northern parts of the empire are adherents of Islam. Their faiths are allowed to flourish for fear of uprisings if their freedom to worship is curtailed, but efforts have been made to slowly and peacefully convert everyone in the empire to the Tewahedo Church - a preference for Christian teaching in the "national schooling system" in place in Shewa, and promises of lower (or abolished) taxes and other bribes for conversion of a Muslim or a Jew and their close family are common, although strictly "not supported" by the crown for fear of backlash.

While Islam and Judaism are very tolerated in the empire, traditional African beliefs and faiths are less so. While there is no method of systematic oppression against the many old faiths present in the Horn, backlash against its open practice is common, and Christian or Muslim mobs sprouting up to drive out supposed witches or practitioners of old African faiths is regularly reported about, whilst little is done to curtail the violence.

Economic Ideologies : The empire is currently heavily mercantilist, with various protectionist policies, however it is slowly opening itself up to be more laissez-faire in order to stimulate the growth and modernization that the empire truly needs.

Major Production : Coffee, cotton, pulses, oilseeds, cattle, some gold production. Factories have begun opening up in Shewa, mostly military in nature, but many other factories have also begun popping up throughout the empire.

Economic Description : At least 80% of the population is employed in agriculture, with many others being employed in the few urban settlements in different trades. Much of the revenue of the government comes from taxing the Neguses of the provinces. A small but growing source of revenue comes from trading with the empire's neighbors, expanded interests in fishing in the Red Sea and the Indian Ocean, and a growing manufacturing hub in Addis Ababa. While the wealth of Shewa has been growing, most of the other provinces, however, are still lagging behind and have a long way to go.

Development: Semi-industrialized / Primitive

Development Description : Much of the twenty-two provinces currently administered by the empire are largely undeveloped, save of course for the nobles, their personal estates, and the settlements that spring up around the estates in search of prosperity. The recent prosperity that stability has afforded the empire is contained in the province. Development has also begun in many other regions, with plans for expanding railways and telegraph lines to all corners of the empire, but progress has been slow. Factories have begun popping up in the other provinces, which has brought with it a slow trickle of growth, and the crown has increased its support for its agricultural workers.

Army Description : The only truly modern arm of the Ethiopian army is the five thousand man strong Imperial Guard, or the Mehal Sefari. The army is still very much decentralized and the lords of the twenty-one other provinces of the empire have direct control over their respective armies, very much similar to how it was since feudal times. Many of them are beginning to be equipped with modern weaponry and are also being trained in modern infantry tactics, but progress, as always, is still very slow, and much of the armed strength of the empire is still centered around Shewa, because of preference and because of fears of uprisings.

This decentralized nature of the Imperial Army means that Shewa would, in case of armed conflict, still have to rely on the loyalty of her surrounding kings and their levies in times of war. In its greatest extent, Ethiopia can technically call upon every able-bodied male teen and adult to take up arms and fight, which would mean that the empire can theoretically call upon around two to three million men to arms for a short campaign. However, this number is, of course, radically smaller than the actual size of the army, which fluctuates between 50,000 (the Imperial Guard + the men that Shewa, the most populous kingdom, can realistically conscript on short notice) and 300,000 (the Imperial Guard, the levy of Shewa, and the levies of all the other provinces), or around 1.5% of the total population of Ethiopia, with a realistic mustering number hovering around 250,000 - 300,000.

Plans to further centralize the army and do away with the feudal levy system are underway, but there has been some pushback with the Neguses, who fear losing their position should their provincial armies be taken away from them.

Army Weakness : The army is still very primitive compared to much of the west, although it can be argued that, save for its imperial neighbor to the north, it is perhaps the best army composed of Africans in Africa, though that might not be saying as much, however, as large portions of the provincial levies are still armed with spears and single-shot rifles or worse. The only standing army to speak of is the Mehal Sefari, and while the provincial levy of Shewa is well-equipped, its possible conscripts would have little in the way of training. The primary weapon of the massive cavalry contingents of the levies is still the primitive lance and shield combination, and many of the tactics used by the Imperial Army still involve mass infantry and cavalry charges.

To add to this, much of the command positions from the rank of Shambel (Captain) and above are held by nobles who have little to no military experience whatsoever. Efforts are being made to fix this by sending possible officers abroad for training in foreign military academies, but a majority of the commanders of the Imperial Army are still incapable, save for the cadre of officers who served during the civil war.

Naval Description : There is no navy to speak of. If it were to be counted as some kind of "strength," the coastlines of the empire provide no infrastructure present to support any kind of invasion force. While the empire can support the fuel needs of small merchant vessels, Ethiopia has no large coaling and refueling stations nor docks and ports that are big enough to accommodate grand warships that foreign invaders may have. So, while invading Ethiopia might be easy, staying in Ethiopia will not be as the nearest port that can be used as a coaling station might be miles away from Ethiopia.

Naval Weakness : There is no navy to speak of. The empire only recently acquired proper coastlines with the last great expansion into Eritrea and Somalia, and so plans to create a proper navy are still in its infancy. Implementation of these plans is ludicrously slow due to the high cost of creating the proper infrastructure alone to maintain an active naval force, and that is yet to account for the cost of building - or, more realistically, buying - a ship. These infant plans were halted due to the civil war and are only starting to be revisited by a Mekwanint that continues to fear possible foreign excursions into the Horn.

Further Military Description : The current service rifle of the empire is a locally-produced variant of a Western single-shot rifle, while the Mehal Sefari is equipped with a modern six-round bolt-action rifle which it calls the Menelik Rifle that was either imported or produced in one of the many arms factories in Addis Ababa, and efforts are underway to equip every man in Ethiopia with a modern Ethiopian rifle. Officers from Metoaleqa (lieutenant) upwards are equipped with a firearm (usually a revolver, but it isn't uncommon for officers to prefer rifles) and a Shotel sword.

National Goals : The main issue of the empire is its survival. It fears above all encroachment by Western powers into their currently-held territories, fears which already rose up and reared its head when the Eastern Romans to the north and the Bretons to the south began encroaching upon land traditionally held by the Tigrayans, the Amhara, the Omoro, and the Somali. This is a brave new world Ethiopia has entered, and its main goal above all is to survive. Other than this, Ethiopia desires to modernize the army, to continue the government reforms started by Menelik II The Great, to create an actual navy, to build and complete railroads that will connect all of the twenty-two provinces of the country, to modernize the country's medieval infrastructure (roads, railways, telegraph lines, electricity, etc.).

National Issues : The Horn is still reeling from the effects of a small famine caused by the outbreak of the civil war, and tens of thousands have already died and the famine is still ongoing. The traditionalist nobility is still keen to oppose any further reform efforts aimed at giving more power to the common people. The empire's feudal past is still very prevalent, and a large majority of people outside of Addis Ababa and the province of Shewa are still impoverished, living in dirt-poor conditions while the nobles that govern their lands maintain immense wealth. The threat of foreign invasion is still at the forefront of the crown, and fear of colonizers still governs everything the empire does.

National Figures of Interest :

Ras Gugsa Welle, husband of the empress
Itege Tayu Betul, mother of the empress
Abuna Mattheos X, Primate of the Orthodox Tewahedo Church
Liqa Kahenat Menashe Hadane, religious leader of the Ethiopian Jews
Sheikh Uways al-Hassan, chosen representative of the Ethiopian Muslims
Bitwoded Wolde Tsadik Goshu, Kantiba (Lord-Mayor) of Addis Ababa
Haile Giyorgis Woldemikael, Negadras (Leader of the Merchants) of Addis Ababa and appointed leader of a network of merchants throughout the empire, and an elected member of the Mekwanint

National Ambition/Aspirations : Further democratization of the empire's governing apparatuses, unification of the Horn and all Ethiopians, creation of a modern Imperial Army and Navy, union of All Ethiopia under one rule.

History : Much of the history of Ethiopia remains unchanged. The POD is the 7th of May, 1769. The Zemene Mesafint, or the Era of The Princes, a time similar to the Japanese or Chinese Sengoku period or Warring States period, never happens because Ras Mikael Sehul never attempts to depose the current Emperor, Iyoas I. Instead, the empire lives on. Still very much backwards compared to the West and to its Roman neighbors to the north, declining in prestige, and turning inwards on itself. However, with the disappearance of the era of warring states and disputed claims to the imperial throne, the over half a dozen famines that beset Ethiopia during this period never happens - save for one in 1835 which was caused by the rains failing to fall.

Instead, the Zemene Mesafint is replaced by the Zemene Mewagedi (ዘሜን መወገድ), the Era of Solitude. While policies of strict isolationism were not in place like they were in Japan, Ethiopia's decline in prestige as a great imperial house was very much pronounced at this time, and much of the contact with outside powers simply stopped. The trade caravans and diplomatic missions from Constantinople ceased to arrive, save for the occasional mission from the Coptic Pope in Alexandria to the Tewahedo priests and bishops. Merchant vessels that sailed from Arabia and India down into the rivers leading into the center of the empire slowed down to a trickle or disappeared entirely. People were left impoverished and returned to plowing the fields and grazing the highland grasses with their cattle. Ethiopia was functionally, if not technically, on its own - but with the lack of wars and famine came with it an explosion of population. As the people turned away from being merchants to farming and animal husbandry, more and more food came in to feed all corners of the empire, and the population soared.

The lords were content, and therefore they spent their days in their own estates looking after their people. Ethiopia's technological prowess did not progress, however, and many of their soldiers still relied on spear and sword and aged muskets by the time the Zemene Mewagedi came to a close during the reign of Emperor Yohannes IV. It was during the reign of Emperor Yohannes IV that the empire had finally decided that it was time to reopen Ethiopia to the world. Trade routes were encouraged to reopen, and diplomatic missions were sent out to the Horn's neighbors to encourage commerce to recommence, a move which proved popular to the nobles of the land. Yohannes IV wasn't there to reshape Ethiopia into some modern state, he wanted to enrich himself and his lords by letting merchants come in to do trade. Ethiopia had a lot of cattle and plentiful harvests - which were a fine target for rinderpest, which came in from merchant vessels from India, and spread throughout the empire and the rest of Africa through semi-nomadic cattle herders looking for pastures their flock can graze.

Emperor Yohannes IV dies not in 1889 like in our timeline, but in 1892, after the worst of the Great Famine of Ethiopia. He succumbs to a smallpox epidemic that was probably linked to the lack of available food in the region caused by the rinderpest epizootic. Menelik II is crowned and sets about immediately to combating the great famine, which is what he did for the first three years of his reign, importing all manner of animals from his neighbors, saving a fourth of every harvest for possible future outbreaks of the famine, doing all the necessary precautions to make sure no rinderpest arrives from Indian merchant vessels, and subsidizing much of the agricultural work of the empire to help stimulate the growth of the farms. This strained the Imperial Treasury, but it made the common people and the nobles happy.

After the famine was considered over by 1895, Menelik II set about uniting The Horn. The fear of foreign invasion was at the forefront of his mind, and he believed he needed to expand the borders of Ethiopia in order to create more "buffer regions" against possible invasions by the sea, and so he assembled the Imperial Army and, as Meridazmach and "King of All Ethiopia," he marched north, northeast, east, and then southeast as he united Eritrea, Djibouti, and all of Somalia under the empire. This expanded the empire into its current borders.

Satisfied with the creation of border regions for the empire, Menelik II then began a series of modernization efforts beginning in 1898. He invited learned men from throughout the world to come to the Horn to teach and to become the experts to whom the Ethiopians would look to for guidance - Armenian commanders and merchants began training men and importing arms for the army, engineers from Europe and Egypt began laying down the foundations for modern infrastructure for railroads and telegraph lines, and many more learned men including mercenary commanders, naturalists, artists, and technologists came in droves to help in the massive modernization efforts of the empire. Backlash began pouring in, however, when the emperor began laying down the groundwork for political reforms - reforms aimed at taking away power traditionally held by nobles and elites and giving it to the people.

Resentment from traditionalist nobles burst out into the open and a civil war erupted at the turn of the century. Fearing foreign takeover of their government and the restructuring of the powers that the nobles have held for centuries, they took up arms against the crown in the largest war the empire had ever fought. Over half of the country sided with the traditionalist nobles, many of whom resided in the western parts of the empire, while the newly-integrated Somalis and Afars formed the backbone of the Imperial Army. Fighting raged on for over two years, and by the first year of the war, Menelik II was badly losing. He was no military commander like his predecessors were, and many of his lands were taken by the traditionalist Neguses. By the end of the year 1900, he was contained to the north and eastern portions of the empire. Namely, the Aussa region and the Somali lands north and east of the Ogaden.

In a desperate bid to win the war, Menelik II sent an imperial contingent which promised the Eastern Roman Empire the hand of the young granddaughter of the emperor, Le'elt (Princess) Woizero Zenebework (b. 1893), who was to be married off to whichever Roman prince they so desired when she comes of age and is to be held at the Roman court of Constantinople as their hostage (but in reality was treated more like a guest); and several northern Amharic and Tigrayan regions currently held by the rebels, which were to be administered by the Romans "for 99 years." In exchange, all Menelik asked - begged - for was the military intervention of the Romans, and materiel support in the form of arms and ammunition. The Eastern Roman Empire gladly accepted this proposal with some changes, mainly that the children of the heir to the throne, Le'elt Zewditu, would also be married off to a Roman. Seeing that there was virtually no risk to them, as the traditionalist rebels were as badly armed as Menelik's forces, if only a little more organized, the Romans and Ethiopians agreed to this alliance.

With coordination from the Romans, an offensive was launched by March, the end of winter, in 1901. Freshly-armed and trained, Menelik's forces broke out of the deserts of the Ogaden while the Romans invaded from the mountains of northern Ethiopia. When the dust settled, a famine had broken out in the empire, close to a million people had died, and the empire was now smaller than it used to be - but Menelik had won. He arrested and executed all of the leading nobles who took up arms against the crown, and defanged their noble houses by demoting their noble ranks.

Menelik II also became a victim of the war, however, as only days after the last of the executions took place, an assassin from a rebellious noble family shot the Negusa Nagast in his own home. Zewditu was crowned shortly after, and she took to normalizing relations between the previously-rebellious western half of her empire. Zewditu began just as her father did by fighting a famine and continuing her father's reforms. A government elected by the people was established in 1903 in the aftermath of the war, electricity was brought to Shewa in 1904, and a railroad linking Addis Ababa to the Red Sea was completed in 1905.

It is now 1906, and Empress Zewditu's reign is going well so far, but the threat of traditionalist lords - or worse, the common people - rising up against her is still there, as well as the looming fear of foreign attack.

RP Sample: But of course!

#AltDiv

by **Elerian** » Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:00 pm

Benuty wrote:
Elerian wrote:
Note that the Mongols were never able to conquer China, so they'd probably be less prolific than they were irl.

Well to be fair I would still imagine the Mongolians would break apart into multiple empires (regardless of a success in China or not). The breaking pretty much was set into stone following Genghis’s death. Even under Kublai he was only nominally sovereign of the other Mongolian controlled areas. As such any area far enough might as well practically become independent.

I didn't imagine it would have much of an effect on your history, I just thought I'd let you know. And now that I think about it, since we have Babylon, the Mongols wouldn't have reached Persia or the Middle East either.

by **Benuty** » Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:03 pm

Elerian wrote:
Benuty wrote:Well to be fair I would still imagine the Mongolians would break apart into multiple empires (regardless of a success in China or not). The breaking pretty much was set into stone following Genghis’s death. Even under Kublai he was only nominally sovereign of the other Mongolian controlled areas. As such any area far enough might as well practically become independent.

I didn't imagine it would have much of an effect on your history, I just thought I'd let you know. And now that I think about it, since we have Babylon, the Mongols wouldn't have reached Persia or the Middle East either.

So I looked at the empire by 1227, and since the campaign of Genghis into northern China failed I am probably going to have him die fighting the Volga river Bolgars. I mean by the time of his death the western reaches of the empire were fighting a war with them anyway. This will set up a process by which the Rus becomes the greatest prize conquered by the Mongols. Eventually, the khan ruling from Mongolia acts out of order, and the Golden Horde fully splits with him following his assault into Jin dynasty China.

by **Alt Div Admin** » Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:23 pm

Speyland wrote:
Reservation

Nation Name: Republic of Chile
Territory: Chile
#AltDiv (do not delete this, it's for keeping track of the apps)
*Note: Reservations will last for 72 hours. The OP board reserves the right to be subjective in regards to accepting reservations.

Pasong Tirad wrote:Excellent. Ethiopia will return.

Reservation

Nation Name: The Empire of Ethiopia (የኢትዮጵያ ንጉሠ ነገሥት መንግሥተ)
Territory: https://i.imgur.com/ATMMPi8.png
#AltDiv

Theyra wrote:
Reservation

Nation Name: Neo-Inca Empire
Territory: Peru, Bolivia, Ecuador, Colombia, and the Galápagos Islands
#AltDiv (do not delete this, it's for keeping track of the apps)
*Note: Reservations will last for 72 hours. The OP board reserves the right to be subjective in regards to accepting reservations.

Tyrrhenis wrote:
Reservation

Nation Name: Kingdom of Frisia
Territory: Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Iceland, Guinea-Bissau, Surinam
#AltDiv (do not delete this, it's for keeping track of the apps)
*Note: Reservations will last for 72 hours. The OP board reserves the right to be subjective in regards to accepting reservations.

*Edit* -having seen what I thought was a fully claimed Denmark actually be unclaimed I had an odd Idea, I have adjusted my reservation for my more interesting idea.

Benuty wrote:
Reservation

Nation Name: Rus Commonwealth
Territory: Territory previously claimed by Union Princes
#AltDiv (do not delete this, it's for keeping track of the apps)
*Note: Reservations will last for 72 hours. The OP board reserves the right to be subjective in regards to accepting reservations.

All these reservations have been added to the list.

Azlaake wrote:-Snip-

Remove the text within the brackets, and put more effort into the app. Particularly in the history section, as one paragraph won't cut it.

SCP Institution wrote:
Reservation

Nation Name : Caliphate of Alsharquia.
Territory : Entire Indian Subcontinent, Myanmar, with the rest of Australia and New Zealand.
#AltDiv (do not delete this, it's for keeping track of the apps)
*Note: Reservations will last for 72 hours. The OP board reserves the right to be subjective in regards to accepting reservations.

The light of Allah shall forever shines over our sublime empire...

I'm not sure that an Islamic India will be feasible, so you may want to talk to Trace or Novacom

Insaeldor wrote:-Snip-

As far as I'm aware that territory has already been reserved.

Kamchakta wrote:
Reservation

Nation Name: Portuguese Empire
Territory: Portugal / Colonies - Angola, Mozambique, Somalia, Djibouti, Eritrea, Zimbabwe, Zambia
#AltDiv (do not delete this, it's for keeping track of the apps)

Just wanted to reserve (In school) I hope this hasn't been taken.

Unless I'm wrong, Portugal has already been reserved.

by **Pasong Tirad** » Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:35 pm

Alt Div Admin wrote:
Kamchakta wrote:
Reservation

Nation Name: Portuguese Empire
Territory: Portugal / Colonies - Angola, Mozambique, Somalia, Djibouti, Eritrea, Zimbabwe, Zambia
#AltDiv (do not delete this, it's for keeping track of the apps)

Just wanted to reserve (In school) I hope this hasn't been taken.

Unless I'm wrong, Portugal has already been reserved.

I've also already claimed Somalia, Djibouti, and Eritrea.

Also, app done.

by **Of Leben** » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:27 pm

Benuty wrote:
Of Leben wrote:We should work out our history sir.

Indeed, so what did you have in mind?

Well, basically we win the Polish muscovite wars, and then we come out advantageous after the end of the two Northern Wars. Russia ends up paying tribute for a little while, and all is well for some time.

The tables get turned towards the end of the 18th century, as we have a disastrous civil war which ends with Russia and other powers intervening and losing a good chunk of Belorussian and half of the Ukraine.

In the 19th century we have one last war around the 1810s after we reject the enforced tribute payments, and we come out victorious- but we fail to reclaim our lost lands. We then both have a tenuous peace, for the next 100 years.

by **Intermountain States** » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:28 pm

Application is finally done

by **Kamchakta** » Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:17 pm

Kamchakta wrote:
Reservation

Nation Name: Portuguese Empire
Territory: Portugal / Colonies - Angola, Mozambique, Somalia, Djibouti, Eritrea, Zimbabwe, Zambia
#AltDiv (do not delete this, it's for keeping track of the apps)

Just wanted to reserve (In school) I hope this hasn't been taken.

Unless I'm wrong, Portugal has already been reserved.

I do not see any Portugal or any claims on it from other nations. However, I will remove Djibouti, Eritrea and Somalia from the colonies.

Reservation

Nation Name: Portuguese Empire
Territory: Portugal / Colonies - Angola, Mozambique, Zimbabwe, Zambia
#AltDiv (do not delete this, it's for keeping track of the apps)

by **Finland SSR** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:15 am

Salmon pink France hurts my soul.

by **Kamchakta** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:44 am

Reservation

Nation Name: Portuguese Empire
Territory: Core - Portugal / Colonies - Mozambique, Angola, Zambia, Zimbabwe, Malawi and South Tanzania
#AltDiv (do not delete this, it's for keeping track of the apps)
*Note: Reservations will last for 72 hours. The OP board reserves the right to be subjective in regards to accepting reservations.

by **Kazarogkai** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:00 am

Reservation

Nation Name: Free Commonwealth of Greater Guyana
Territory: British Guyana, Suriname, French Guyana, Brazilian Amapá, Eastern Venezuala
#AltDiv (do not delete this, it's for keeping track of the apps)
*Note: Reservations will last for 72 hours. The OP board reserves the right to be subjective in regards to accepting reservations.

Haven't been in an RP in a while. It would be nice to get the old noggin working again. Love these types of things so it's especially cool.

by **Tracian Empire** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:29 am

SCP Institution wrote:
Reservation

Nation Name : Caliphate of Alsharquia.
Territory : Entire Indian Subcontinent, Myanmar, with the rest of Australia and New Zealand.
#AltDiv (do not delete this, it's for keeping track of the apps)
*Note: Reservations will last for 72 hours. The OP board reserves the right to be subjective in regards to accepting reservations.

The light of Allah shall forever shines over our sublime empire...

It might be possible in that Islam has existed in this timeline, and the early expansion of Islam was roughly the same. But Babylon and the Romans managed to defend their core territories (Mesopotamia in Babylon's case, Asia Minor for the Byzantines), and the Caliphate collapsed a few centuries later with the Romans and crusaders pushing into the Levant and with Babylon taking over Arabia.

So there were no Timurids or Murghals to speak of, you'll have to find another way for Islam to have reached India.

by **Tracian Empire** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:31 am

Kamchakta wrote:(Image)
Reservation

Nation Name: Portuguese Empire
Territory: Core - Portugal / Colonies - Mozambique, Angola, Zambia, Zimbabwe, Malawi and South Tanzania
#AltDiv (do not delete this, it's for keeping track of the apps)
*Note: Reservations will last for 72 hours. The OP board reserves the right to be subjective in regards to accepting reservations.

Portugal is indeed free, the previous player withdrew his claim, reservation accepted.

by **Tracian Empire** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:35 am

Benuty wrote:I suspect due to Russia's isolation from the support of the mainline church they may no longer be Chalcedonian. At least how other Chalcedonians might see them, and this has happened before. The Celtic Christians during the Anglo-Saxon conquests basically began to transform into their own church following the loss of contact from Rome. I see no reason why the same wouldn't happen in the Rus especially with the Mongolians adopting a branch of Christianity not exactly glowing with approval from the mainstream faith.

Well, at least at its origins, the Kievan Rus could have still been Orthodox, the eastern Slavs should still be in an area where the Eastern Romans would have tried to send missionaries, and in an area under the authority of the Ecumenical Patriarch. But, if your faith would have started to diverge from the dogma of the Orthodox Church, then communion would have certainly been broken.

by **Tracian Empire** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:40 am

SCP Institution wrote:
Remnants of Exilvania wrote:Pretty sure Chile also got reserved and I think someone's web apping for Argentina as well.

The reservation list is really slow to update isn't it ?

Several of us in the OP board seem to be busy, my apologies. That is why my advice is to look throughout the entire thread for applications or reservations before making one, at least until we can properly keep everything updated again.

by **Tracian Empire** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:49 am

The Felan Federation wrote:
Reverend Norv wrote:
Certainly. It’s mentioned in Spain’s app. But it didn’t lead to republican government. If anything, since the Chalcedonian churches are subject to Roman imperial authority, it seems to have retrenched monarchical rule in Catholic/Orthodox Europe. So a Catholic republic would still be a fairly novel idea for a lot of Europeans.

I keep hearing about this Chalcedonian Church - what is it exactly and how is it different from the Catholic/Orthodox one?

In real life, the name of the Chalcedonian Church was given to that part of Christianity which accepted the Council of Chalcedon, basically today's Roman Catholic Church and Eastern Orthodox Church, as another part of Christianity broke away, refusing to accept it - what is known today as Oriental Orthodoxy( confusing name, basically Copts, Syriacs, Ethiopians).

Both in real life and in here, five Patriarchs were recognized as the pillars of the Chalcedonian Church, the Pope, and the Patriarchs of Constantinople, Antioch, Jerusalem, and Alexandria. But the church slowly started to break into two as time passed, along differences of dogma and rite, and because of clashes of authority, between the Pope who wanted to be recognized as the head of the church and the other Patriarchs who opposed it. Eventually, there was a dispute, and the church broke into two - the Great Schism - with the Catholics and Orthodoxy coming out of it.

In this timeline, the church initially broke as it did, but since all of the Pentrarchy is under Roman authority (the Pope under the WRE, the rest under the ERE), as the two empires repaired their relations in the 1400's, the Schism was canceled, and ever since, the Chalcedonian Church was kept together by Roman authority, despite still existing tensions and differences. So while Catholicism is still Catholicism, and Orthodoxy is still Orthodoxy, the churches are still considered to be together, or as it's said formally, "in communion".

by **Tracian Empire** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:50 am

Kazarogkai wrote:
Reservation

Nation Name: Free Commonwealth of Greater Guyana
Territory: British Guyana, Suriname, French Guyana, Brazilian Amapá, Eastern Venezuala
#AltDiv (do not delete this, it's for keeping track of the apps)
*Note: Reservations will last for 72 hours. The OP board reserves the right to be subjective in regards to accepting reservations.

Haven't been in an RP in a while. It would be nice to get the old noggin working again. Love these types of things so it's especially cool.

I'm still trying to realize what is happening in South America, but I am fairly certain that at least one of the Guyanas and Suriname are reserved, and we seem to have a WIP app that takes over Venezuela I'm afraid.

by **Kamchakta** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:31 am

Well, don't worry. I am making Portugal a Roman Catholic Nation. So they still exist in this time period

BTW, Is the Western Roman Empire Catholic or Orthodox? Or do they still worship the Roman/Greek Gods?

by **Remnants of Exilvania** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:32 am

Tracian Empire wrote:
SCP Institution wrote:
Reservation

Nation Name : Caliphate of Alsharquia.
Territory : Entire Indian Subcontinent, Myanmar, with the rest of Australia and New Zealand.
#AltDiv (do not delete this, it's for keeping track of the apps)
*Note: Reservations will last for 72 hours. The OP board reserves the right to be subjective in regards to accepting reservations.

The light of Allah shall forever shines over our sublime empire...

It might be possible in that Islam has existed in this timeline, and the early expansion of Islam was roughly the same. But Babylon and the Romans managed to defend their core territories (Mesopotamia in Babylon's case, Asia Minor for the Byzantines), and the Caliphate collapsed a few centuries later with the Romans and crusaders pushing into the Levant and with Babylon taking over Arabia.

So there were no Timurids or Murghals to speak of, you'll have to find another way for Islam to have reached India.

Same way it reached SEA perhaps?

Those darn muslim traders.

by **Reverend Norv** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:35 am

Kamchakta wrote:Well, don't worry. I am making Portugal a Roman Catholic Nation. So they still exist in this time period
BTW, Is the Western Roman Empire Catholic or Orthodox? Or do they still worship the Roman/Greek Gods?

Again, reread what Tracian Empire wrote about the Chalcedonian Church.

The Western Empire is Catholic, and the Eastern Empire is Orthodox. But the two churches never fully schismed, and so they are unified in one structure: the Chalcedonian Church. Portugal, as a Catholic country, would also belong to this larger Chalcedonian Church.

I really recommend reading the history sections of the apps for the Eastern Roman Empire, Spain, and France to get a sense of how the historical and religious development of Europe was quite different in this timeline.

by **Reverend Norv** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:36 am

Finland SSR wrote:Salmon pink France hurts my soul.

I've been trying to convince myself that it is Reformed orange.

by **Tracian Empire** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:42 am

Reverend Norv wrote:
Finland SSR wrote:Salmon pink France hurts my soul.

I've been trying to convince myself that it is Reformed orange.

If you want a different color just give us the code and I'll see what I can do

by **Tracian Empire** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:46 am

Kamchakta wrote:Well, don't worry. I am making Portugal a Roman Catholic Nation. So they still exist in this time period
BTW, Is the Western Roman Empire Catholic or Orthodox? Or do they still worship the Roman/Greek Gods?

There is still a very small pagan minority in the ERE a few thousands, not sure about the WRE.

But the WRE is clearly Catholic, just as the ERE is clearly Orthodox, with both churches in communion in the Greater Chalcedonian Church.

1906: Alternative Divergence [AH][OOC-DEAD]

Who is online