[Report] Islamic Discussion Thread

[Mostrov]

Concubinage in Al-Islam. Just something I found in discord, a really great article to read about how to have Halaal sex with one's slave.

[Old Tyrannia]

Addressed.

[The Man Who Shot Jiminy Cricket]

He isn't advocating rape, please see Qur'an 24:33,

"Force not your slave-girls to whoredom that ye may seek better enjoyment of the life of this world, if they would preserve their chastity."

Did either of you actually read the article?

That said, consent as a moral consideration is not an irrelevant discussion. Early jurists did, in fact, prohibit a man on moral grounds from coercing his wife or concubine into sexual relations, as one of the purposes of lawful sexual relations is mutual pleasure.

A major point in the article is that sex with one's slave must be consensual.

You should be ashamed for banning someome like this based purely on assumption.

[Frisbeeteria]

After consultation with other moderators, this forumban has been overturned on appeal.

You should be ashamed for banning someome like this based purely on assumption.

As you are not a moderator nor in any way involved in this ruling, you are *** Warned for spamming Moderation ***.

[Grenartia]

I'd like to request a second opinion on this appeal. There are many users on this site who are rape survivors and who shouldn't feel like they can be raped all over again (since there's no such thing as true consent in the slave-owner dynamic) because of one backwards person's religious beliefs, and there are likely quite a few human trafficking survivors who would not appreciate hearing that, either. There are also many female posters who do not belong to either category who would feel unsafe about continuing to be on here if such statements are allowed, and will likely leave.

One such poster, in her own words:

It's good to know that El-Amin thinks it's okay to enslave women of another religion and have sex with them.

Because that's not uncomfortable as fuck for female posters here.

Also, there is the argument to be made that sexual slavery is a fate worse than death, and that advocating for it (while Amin will likely decry this, that is effectively what he has done) is worse than advocating death, or any other form of violence, which is already an actionable offense here.

[Farnhamia]

*fires off a Mod attention flare*

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Then your claim doesn't make sense. Polygyny and slavery are literally in the Holy Qur'an, the only "strain of Islam" that wouldn't believe that literally wouldn't even be Islam in the 1st place.

You sound just like the people who enslaved your ancestors.

Am I just being paranoid or is this a personal attack?

Also - unrelated to this post - is it ok to lie about people on NS?

[Dresderstan]

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=462608&start=125

The thread has suddenly gone off topic comparing, and so far as blatantly believing The Man Who Shot Jiminy Cricket is Parkus, which last I checked was not the topic of the thread.

[Grenartia]

Since I'm now being reported, I'll take the opportunity to defend myself:

You sound just like the people who enslaved your ancestors.

Am I just being paranoid or is this a personal attack?

Pointing out historical irony =/= a personal attack.

https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=462608&start=125

The thread has suddenly gone off topic comparing, and so far as blatantly believing The Man Who Shot Jiminy Cricket is Parkus, which last I checked was not the topic of the thread.

I was asked, and I answered. That is all.

[NERVUN]

I'd like to request a second opinion on this appeal. There are many users on this site who are rape survivors and who shouldn't feel like they can be raped all over again (since there's no such thing as true consent in the slave-owner dynamic) because of one backwards person's religious beliefs, and there are likely quite a few human trafficking survivors who would not appreciate hearing that, either. There are also many female posters who do not belong to either category who would feel unsafe about continuing to be on here if such statements are allowed, and will likely leave.

One such poster, in her own words:

It's good to know that El-Amin thinks it's okay to enslave women of another religion and have sex with them.

Because that's not uncomfortable as fuck for female posters here.

Also, there is the argument to be made that sexual slavery is a fate worse than death, and that advocating for it (while Amin will likely decry this, that is effectively what he has done) is worse than advocating death, or any other form of violence, which is already an actionable offense here.

I'm going through the reports separately, so there's gonna be a couple of posts.

The ruling is upheld. I read the posting in question, and you have to do a lot of inferring, connecting, reading the wind, etc to get El-Amin's posting about historical practices constitutes avocation of rape.

[NERVUN]

You sound just like the people who enslaved your ancestors.

Am I just being paranoid or is this a personal attack?

Also - unrelated to this post - is it ok to lie about people on NS?

It is not a personal attack.

Lying in and of itself is not against the rules, per-se. If it becomes harassment, we will take steps.

[NERVUN]

https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=462608&start=125

The thread has suddenly gone off topic comparing, and so far as blatantly believing The Man Who Shot Jiminy Cricket is Parkus, which last I checked was not the topic of the thread.

Farn got it.

[Mostrov]

I feel it a better thing to report something without comment, preventing any invective from clouding the minds of moderators; nevertheless I feel I ought to clarify with the right of reply which seems to be allowed here as to what I was reporting.

I in fact read the thread (and the article) very carefully, and am familiar with the user's views, but a deciding factor in making this report was seeing something so gratuitous that no context would excuse the statement as made in either good-faith—which was stated to no longer be a concern— or as something so provocative that were the average reader to read, they would be offended.

While the issue of rape was what was cause for initial punishment, it is secondary to my complaint: I reported this post because it supported sexual slavery—something that the poster admits he supports [1] and which is regarded as an international war-crime. Considering there are [url]=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_slavery#Asia_2parts of the world[/url] in which this is an ongoing matter I would extremely concerned if anyone on this forum were to post any support of this activity.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

[1]

Literally no where is "sex slavery" nor "sexual slavery" said. What you could so is actually read the link you reported instead of making baseless assumptions.

[The Archregimancy]

[1]

Literally no where is "sex slavery" nor "sexual slavery" said. What you could so is actually read the link you reported instead of making baseless assumptions.

El-Amin, we're capable of making a judgement on this ourselves, thank you. You are the subject of the report, so you're entitled to post here; but this intervention wasn't entirely helpful.

[NERVUN]

I feel it a better thing to report something without comment, preventing any invective from clouding the minds of moderators; nevertheless I feel I ought to clarify with the right of reply which seems to be allowed here as to what I was reporting.

I in fact read the thread (and the article) very carefully, and am familiar with the user's views, but a deciding factor in making this report was seeing something so gratuitous that no context would excuse the statement as made in either good-faith—which was stated to no longer be a concern— or as something so provocative that were the average reader to read, they would be offended.

While the issue of rape was what was cause for initial punishment, it is secondary to my complaint: I reported this post because it supported sexual slavery—something that the poster admits he supports [1] and which is regarded as an international war-crime. Considering there are [url]=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_slavery#Asia_2parts of the world[/url] in which this is an ongoing matter I would extremely concerned if anyone on this forum were to post any support of this activity.

Again, it was ruled on, challenged, ovterturned, and that over-turning was upheld. The article in question is talking about the historical actions of concubinage and how, in their opinion, that answers the charge that Islam allows or encourages sexual violence. I would no more punish a poster for linking to that than I would for someone linking to a Wiki article talking about the emperors of China and their massive harems.

You have to REALLY look sideways and connect a number of posts all over the place to arrive at the conclusion that he was advocating for sexual slavery. I did read the thread when I made my ruling, including your linked posts and I see no reason to revisit it.

[Free African Union]

a really great article to read about how to have Halaal sex with one's slave.

Yeah, that is really looking at it sideways alright. I take it if someone posts a link about lynching and they say "a really great article to read about how to hang niggers" will warrant a pass as well.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Also, isn't slavery illegal anyway? Isn't talking about how to treat "your slaves" and Amin's constant advocacy of slavery itself a violation of the rules?

[NERVUN]

I knew I forgot something. Ok, since we don't take third party appeals, and the appeals on this issue have been exhausted, I see no reason to leave this open for more random postings.

Another Mod may of course decide otherwise, but until then, iLock.