Northumbrian independence

[The Blaatschapen]

The North shall rise again!

[The Huskar Social Union]

The North shall rise again!

[Yuyencia]

this should be supoorted along with independence movements in "china" not just tibet or uyghuristan but everywhere north to south manchukuo cantonia basuria, et cetra.

[Dresderstan]

The North shall rise again!

Good grief is that Jeremy Corbyn?

[Auze]

Yeah idk what that had to do with my question. But a pan-Islamic state did exist. Anyways Munkchester you didn't answer my question.

That is even further back than Northumbria. You have to admit, it's pot calling the kettle black.
Anyway, I think it could be cool, though I feel like it should be what the Northumbrians think. And there is the question of whether to revive/rebuild Cumbric, stick with Welsh or Cornish, or use English.

[Unstoppable Empire of Doom]

For those who don't know where Northumbria is, which is a shame because we're the reason you have electric light

Thomas Edison was murican, so was been franklin. I have no idea northumbrias claim is but it sounds like a stretch.

[Munkchester]

I think its my que to weigh in now. Durham has a population of 48,000 people and is a city only in name. (its more of a Large town meaning it wont make a very...productive capital).

No different to Bern, then. I'm not saying it would be the economic centre.

I am British myself so I know that support of Cornish independence and ESPECIALLY Northumbrian independence is virtually non-existent among the general population and more of a fantasy by a very select amount of individuals in these areas.

Where are you from?

If you can give valid reasons why Northumbria would make a successful nation I'm all ears.

It'd be more successful independent than under London, certainly.

Sure, sure, you may ask for independence now, but the moment those Viking longships appear on the horizon you'll come running back to the Southerners.

Hilarious.

[Munkchester]

Get thy filthsum Northwmbrian tallons off frae Scotland.

Scotland's just northern Northumbria.

You expect people to support the independence of a Medieval country?

I have no idea what basis for independence a country that stopped existing in the 900s could have.

ok American

Given only 22% wanted a devolved government in 2004, I'd say the burden of proof is on you to demonstrate a majority want any form of self government, let alone independence.

That vote was largely a combination of sticking it to Blair and the devolved government having almost no powers whatsoever.

[Munkchester]

For those who don't know where Northumbria is, which is a shame because we're the reason you have electric light

Thomas Edison was murican, so was been franklin. I have no idea northumbrias claim is but it sounds like a stretch.

That's interesting.

[Iciaros]

In general I find myself sceptical of independence movements, because while mismanagement by central authority can cause a number of practical problems which could conceivably be solved by independence, in my opinion they could all be equally solved with devolved government or just freer local government. And, honestly, it sounds easier to me to push for more local freedom than complete independence. Territory is a big thing with countries, as silly as I think it is.

But, anyway, that's my general view. I haven't really seen enough evidence in this thread for me to support Northumbrian independence specifically (but then again, I have a dim view of arguments that tout culture and identity as overriding justifications for secession, so they don't hold much weight with me). I'm not even sure, given the responses so far, if there is a significant cultural divide between Northumbria and the rest of England or whether the people of Northumbria even want it. Obviously that's not to say that neither is true, but until one or the other is reasonably proven with statistics or surveys or what-have-you, I don't feel comfortable accepting either as unadulterated truth.

[Andsed]

Get thy filthsum Northwmbrian tallons off frae Scotland.

Scotland's just northern Northumbria.

You expect people to support the independence of a Medieval country?

I have no idea what basis for independence a country that stopped existing in the 900s could have.

ok American

Given only 22% wanted a devolved government in 2004, I'd say the burden of proof is on you to demonstrate a majority want any form of self government, let alone independence.

That vote was largely a combination of sticking it to Blair and the devolved government having almost no powers whatsoever.

How is him being an American discredit his point? It is a fair one. Northumbria has not existed for hundreds of years and there is no real basis for Northumbrian independence

[Munkchester]

Scotland's just northern Northumbria.



ok American



That vote was largely a combination of sticking it to Blair and the devolved government having almost no powers whatsoever.

How is him being an American discredit his point? It is a fair one. Northumbria has not existed for hundreds of years and there is no real basis for Northumbrian independence

Are you an American too?

[Valrifell]

Scotland's just northern Northumbria.



ok American



That vote was largely a combination of sticking it to Blair and the devolved government having almost no powers whatsoever.

How is him being an American discredit his point? It is a fair one. Northumbria has not existed for hundreds of years and there is no real basis for Northumbrian independence

All states are legal fiction and nations are collective identities which can change over time. That Northumbria has not existed for a long time is not proof that Northumbria should not be independent.

[Andsed]

How is him being an American discredit his point? It is a fair one. Northumbria has not existed for hundreds of years and there is no real basis for Northumbrian independence

Are you an American too?

Yes why does that matter? And again what basis is there for Northumbrian independence? What national identity is there?

[Czech-Bohemia]

No part of Lothian belongs to Northumberland, that is Scottish land and therefore British land.

[Shanhwa]

Balkanize the United Kingdom, really.

I mean, it’d make for an interesting book series.

[Crysuko]

Balkanize the United Kingdom, really.

I mean, it’d make for an interesting book series.

Balkanise England into Northumbria, Mercia, Wessex and Cornwall.

[The New California Republic]

Complete nonsense. Northumbria hasn't existed as a single entity for over a thousand years. This is a non-issue.

It would also entail significant chunks of southern Scotland (including Edinburgh, Scotland's capital city no less!) being part of this new state. No.

[Shanhwa]

I mean, it’d make for an interesting book series.

Balkanise England into Northumbria, Mercia, Wessex and Cornwall.

Add in the Isle of Man and make it a main naval power of the Balkanized UK.

[Crysuko]

Balkanise England into Northumbria, Mercia, Wessex and Cornwall.

Add in the Isle of Man and make it a main naval power of the Balkanized UK.

Why don't we split Pictland out of Scotland while we're at it.

[Unstoppable Empire of Doom]

Thomas Edison was murican, so was been franklin. I have no idea northumbrias claim is but it sounds like a stretch.

That's interesting.

So not the guy who invented the first lightbulb, nor the guy who developed it's most widely adopted form. Well... That's cool.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Plenty of Northumbrians do, yes.

Like what?

Yeah idk what that had to do with my question. But a pan-Islamic state did exist. Anyways Munkchester you didn't answer my question.

That is even further back than Northumbria. You have to admit, it's pot calling the kettle black

The difference being that I'm not making wild claims to bring them back.

[Vdara]

Oh for fucks sake, this again?
I remember you telegramming me about this over and over with your ‘durrr scotland isn’t real’ bullshit.

You say Northumbria isn’t just north England. I think you should come to realise that Northumbria really is just north England.

Any bits of scotland you claim as Northumbria is false, and just because Edinburgh was called some Northumbrian name fuckin hundreds of years ago, you claim it as Northumbrian.

Your claims to Northumbrian nationalism are completely and utterly false.
If anything, Scotland has a better claim to some of Northumbria than Northumbria has on scotland.

[Old Tyrannia]

I suppose if Israel can come back to life after more than two and a half thousand years, Northumbria has a shot. I'm not sure that you'd be able to find even a hundred people in the region our OP claims for his new Northumbria who share his ambition, however. I should clarify for transparency's sake that I am a West Saxon oppressor.

Balkanise England into Northumbria, Mercia, Wessex and Cornwall.

Add in the Isle of Man and make it a main naval power of the Balkanized UK.

What about Kent, Essex, Sussex and East Anglia? Must they continue to suffer under the West Saxon yoke?

[The Blaatschapen]

I suppose if Israel can come back to life after more than two and a half thousand years, Northumbria has a shot. I'm not sure that you'd be able to find even a hundred people in the region our OP claims for his new Northumbria who share his ambition, however. I should clarify for transparency's sake that I am a West Saxon oppressor.

Add in the Isle of Man and make it a main naval power of the Balkanized UK.

What about Kent, Essex, Sussex and East Anglia? Must they continue to suffer under the West Saxon yoke?

To be fair, how many people in the territory of what is now Israel were supporting a jewish Israelian state a century before it happened?

We can start sowing the seeds of this movement now!