LWDT VI: Kropotkin's Bread Dead Redemption.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Yusseria's got a point. "MetaRealism sounds like the name of a joke philosophy.

You can take that up with the the late distinguished professor (University of London) Roy Bhaskar.

I'm afraid I don't hold antipositivist sociology professors in high regard.

[United Muscovite Nations]

You can take that up with the the late distinguished professor (University of London) Roy Bhaskar.

I'm afraid I don't hold antipositivist sociology professors in high regard.

There are many philosophers who aren't positivists.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

I'm afraid I don't hold antipositivist sociology professors in high regard.

There are many philosophers who aren't positivists.

Philosophers are not sociologists.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Then I can just say "no." No need for violence.

Unless he tries to take it from you.

Then it's self-defense.

[United Muscovite Nations]

There are many philosophers who aren't positivists.

Philosophers are not sociologists.

Sociology has a lot more to do with philosophy than it does with science imo. Trying to make "social sciences" was a mistake.

[Cekoviu]

Philosophers are not sociologists.

Sociology has a lot more to do with philosophy than it does with science imo. Trying to make "social sciences" was a mistake.

The methodology of science can absolutely be used with human constructs, and I don't think it's entirely fair to paint all of sociology as subjective (at least any more than biology or astronomy).

[United Muscovite Nations]

Sociology has a lot more to do with philosophy than it does with science imo. Trying to make "social sciences" was a mistake.

The methodology of science can absolutely be used with human constructs, and I don't think it's entirely fair to paint all of sociology as subjective (at least any more than biology or astronomy).

The problem with social sciences is that you can't apply the scientific method to everything because a lot of the conditions you want to study are non-reproducible.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

Sociology has a lot more to do with philosophy than it does with science imo. Trying to make "social sciences" was a mistake.

That is an American distinction. In most of the world, science and scholarship are synonymous.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Sociology has a lot more to do with philosophy than it does with science imo. Trying to make "social sciences" was a mistake.

That is an American distinction. In most of the world, science and scholarship are synonymous.

A language in which "science" and "academia" are interchangeable is a bad language.

[Duvniask]

Unless he tries to take it from you.

Then it's self-defense.

Self-defense is still violence, however. You will end up harming/injuring the person you are defending against. That is just the nature of the act.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Got to laugh when family bring up politics but eventually end up resorting to endlessly repeating the words "loony left" in lieu of an argument.

Still, got my own back when dad randomly claimed Rome fell due to lead poisoning and I did the whole "well actually it fell due to people refusing to pay taxes and due to mass migration without integration, ring any bells for what's happening under liberal individualism?"

All good fun.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Then it's self-defense.

Self-defense is still violence, however. You will end up harming/injuring the person you are defending against. That is just the nature of the act.

Self-defense is fundamentally different from other forms of violence, as you are not initiating force, but instead responding to it.

[Duvniask]

Self-defense is still violence, however. You will end up harming/injuring the person you are defending against. That is just the nature of the act.

Self-defense is fundamentally different from other forms of violence, as you are not initiating force, but instead responding to it.

I believe the conversation here was about violence, no? Regardless of any difference, it generally involves violence, because disabling a threat usually means harming it (in order that it be incapacitated).

[Western Vale Confederacy]

Got to laugh when family bring up politics but eventually end up resorting to endlessly repeating the words "loony left" in lieu of an argument.

Still, got my own back when dad randomly claimed Rome fell due to lead poisoning and I did the whole "well actually it fell due to people refusing to pay taxes and due to mass migration without integration, ring any bells for what's happening under liberal individualism?"

All good fun.

Whenever somebody omits the "uncontrolled mass migrations" being one of the pivotal reasons that Rome collapsed, I do the big laugh.

Obviously it was more than just that, but pretending that millions of barbarians that you initially brought in as mercenaries flooding over unprotected borders didn’t cause instability is effing dumb.

[Valrifell]

Got to laugh when family bring up politics but eventually end up resorting to endlessly repeating the words "loony left" in lieu of an argument.

Still, got my own back when dad randomly claimed Rome fell due to lead poisoning and I did the whole "well actually it fell due to people refusing to pay taxes and due to mass migration without integration, ring any bells for what's happening under liberal individualism?"

All good fun.

Whenever somebody omits the "uncontrolled mass migrations" being one of the pivotal reasons that Rome collapsed, I do the big laugh.

Obviously it was more than just that, but pretending that millions of barbarians that you initially brought in as mercenaries flooding over unprotected borders didn’t cause instability is effing dumb.

The Huns and Goths migrating all over the place didn't help the situation, but Rome was never exactly a bastion of stability. It wasn't even the fact that these were regular tribespeople, it was that they were culturally distinct from Rome and held more loyalty to their similar-speaking officer than the Eternal City.

So, yes, the migration did play a part, but less in the way we think of today and more of the raidy way.

[Conserative Morality]

Got to laugh when family bring up politics but eventually end up resorting to endlessly repeating the words "loony left" in lieu of an argument.

Still, got my own back when dad randomly claimed Rome fell due to lead poisoning and I did the whole "well actually it fell due to people refusing to pay taxes and due to mass migration without integration, ring any bells for what's happening under liberal individualism?"

All good fun.

"Mass migration without integration"

Is that what we're calling armed invasions now? Good fun.

Whenever somebody omits the "uncontrolled mass migrations" being one of the pivotal reasons that Rome collapsed, I do the big laugh.

Obviously it was more than just that, but pretending that millions of barbarians that you initially brought in as mercenaries flooding over unprotected borders didn’t cause instability is effing dumb.

I don't even know where to begin. 'Unprotected borders' maybe.

[Ostroeuropa]

Got to laugh when family bring up politics but eventually end up resorting to endlessly repeating the words "loony left" in lieu of an argument.

Still, got my own back when dad randomly claimed Rome fell due to lead poisoning and I did the whole "well actually it fell due to people refusing to pay taxes and due to mass migration without integration, ring any bells for what's happening under liberal individualism?"

All good fun.

"Mass migration without integration"

Is that what we're calling armed invasions now? Good fun.

Whenever somebody omits the "uncontrolled mass migrations" being one of the pivotal reasons that Rome collapsed, I do the big laugh.

Obviously it was more than just that, but pretending that millions of barbarians that you initially brought in as mercenaries flooding over unprotected borders didn’t cause instability is effing dumb.

I don't even know where to begin. 'Unprotected borders' maybe.

You're ignoring why those borders were unprotected.
The migrants had more loyalty to their tribe than rome but were nonetheless employed in a vital institution, and when they stopped being paid, they immediately turned on society.

Like if the government shutdown immediately resulted in all the US cops deciding to burn down buildings, rape and murder, secede from the US and declare a new totalitarian state with the locals being enslaved to their new feudal lord because, hey, you employed a bunch of tribalist foreigners with no loyalty to the country or its people and the second money ran out, that was it.

The borders were unprotected because the foreigners employed to guard them deserted to raid the country that took them in.

Friendly reminder more British Muslims joined ISIS than the UK army.

The lesson of Rome is:

Don't hire foreigners or people from a foreign culture to perform jobs vital to safety and security of a nation in such numbers that they could feasibly derail the project if they decided to.

As well as:

Pay your fucking taxes.

The problem with blocking foreign cultures from vital positions is that it doesn't gel with equality nor the goals of integration. So what we need is, oh I don't know, a small amount of them entering at any one time so as to give us space to assimilate them and get them to adapt to local customs and ideas?

[United Muscovite Nations]

Sociology has a lot more to do with philosophy than it does with science imo. Trying to make "social sciences" was a mistake.

That is an American distinction. In most of the world, science and scholarship are synonymous.

Lol what a load of horseshit.

Science is using the scientific method, most academics don't do that, and you know it.

[Yusseria]

"Mass migration without integration"

Is that what we're calling armed invasions now? Good fun.

I don't even know where to begin. 'Unprotected borders' maybe.

You're ignoring why those borders were unprotected.
The migrants had more loyalty to their tribe than rome but were nonetheless employed in a vital institution, and when they stopped being paid, they immediately turned on society.

Like if the government shutdown immediately resulted in all the US cops deciding to burn down buildings, rape and murder, secede from the US and declare a new totalitarian state with the locals being enslaved to their new feudal lord because, hey, you employed a bunch of tribalist foreigners with no loyalty to the country or its people and the second money ran out, that was it.

The borders were unprotected because the foreigners employed to guard them deserted to raid the country that took them in.

Friendly reminder more British Muslims joined ISIS than the UK army.

The lesson of Rome is:

Don't hire foreigners or people from a foreign culture to perform jobs vital to safety and security of a nation in such numbers that they could feasibly derail the project if they decided to.

As well as:

Pay your fucking taxes.

The problem with blocking foreign cultures from vital positions is that it doesn't gel with equality nor the goals of integration. So what we need is, oh I don't know, a small amount of them entering at any one time so as to give us space to assimilate them and get them to adapt to local customs and ideas?

Ah, the dangers of mass migration.

Oh, wait, forgot we aren't supposed to talk about such things.

"Mass migration good. Why you hate brown people? Shut up, xenophobe."

[United Muscovite Nations]

"Mass migration without integration"

Is that what we're calling armed invasions now? Good fun.

I don't even know where to begin. 'Unprotected borders' maybe.

You're ignoring why those borders were unprotected.
The migrants had more loyalty to their tribe than rome but were nonetheless employed in a vital institution, and when they stopped being paid, they immediately turned on society.

Like if the government shutdown immediately resulted in all the US cops deciding to burn down buildings, rape and murder, secede from the US and declare a new totalitarian state with the locals being enslaved to their new feudal lord because, hey, you employed a bunch of tribalist foreigners with no loyalty to the country or its people and the second money ran out, that was it.

The borders were unprotected because the foreigners employed to guard them deserted to raid the country that took them in.

Friendly reminder more British Muslims joined ISIS than the UK army.

The lesson of Rome is:

Don't hire foreigners or people from a foreign culture to perform jobs vital to safety and security of a nation in such numbers that they could feasibly derail the project if they decided to.

As well as:

Pay your fucking taxes.

The problem with blocking foreign cultures from vital positions is that it doesn't gel with equality nor the goals of integration. So what we need is, oh I don't know, a small amount of them entering at any one time so as to give us space to assimilate them and get them to adapt to local customs and ideas?

The reason the borders were unprotected was a power struggle between the two Magister Militi, by all accounts, Stilicho was very loyal to the Empire, and the only reason the Foederati revolted was because the Italian Comitatenses revolted, killed Stilicho, and then lynched their families.

[Conserative Morality]

The reason the borders were unprotected was a power struggle between the two Magister Militi, by all accounts, Stilicho was very loyal to the Empire, and the only reason the Foederati revolted was because the Italian Comitatenses revolted, killed Stilicho, and then lynched their families.

There is also, of course, the issue that the borders were often quite strongly protected, to the detriment of the economic viability of the Empire, and that the refusal of the Roman elite to accept outsiders such as Stilicho as time wore on stripped them of one of Rome's former strengths - the ability to turn their enemies and subjects to their side.

[Valrifell]

The reason the borders were unprotected was a power struggle between the two Magister Militi, by all accounts, Stilicho was very loyal to the Empire, and the only reason the Foederati revolted was because the Italian Comitatenses revolted, killed Stilicho, and then lynched their families.

There is also, of course, the issue that the borders were often quite strongly protected, to the detriment of the economic viability of the Empire, and that the refusal of the Roman elite to accept outsiders such as Stilicho as time wore on stripped them of one of Rome's former strengths - the ability to turn their enemies and subjects to their side.

No, CM, see, Rome collapsed because of mass immigration in spite of the fact the Empire had been successfully assimilating migrating and conquered people for the better half of 500 years.

[Torrocca]

There is also, of course, the issue that the borders were often quite strongly protected, to the detriment of the economic viability of the Empire, and that the refusal of the Roman elite to accept outsiders such as Stilicho as time wore on stripped them of one of Rome's former strengths - the ability to turn their enemies and subjects to their side.

No, CM, see, Rome collapsed because of mass immigration in spite of the fact the Empire had been successfully assimilating migrating and conquered people for the better half of 500 years.

W-We don't talk about that here, Val. C-Clearly the problems of R-Rome were entirely caused by migration!

[Washington Resistance Army]

The reason the borders were unprotected was a power struggle between the two Magister Militi, by all accounts, Stilicho was very loyal to the Empire, and the only reason the Foederati revolted was because the Italian Comitatenses revolted, killed Stilicho, and then lynched their families.

There is also, of course, the issue that the borders were often quite strongly protected, to the detriment of the economic viability of the Empire, and that the refusal of the Roman elite to accept outsiders such as Stilicho as time wore on stripped them of one of Rome's former strengths - the ability to turn their enemies and subjects to their side.

Odoacer didn't tbh, the Ostrogoths on the other hand...

[United Muscovite Nations]

The reason the borders were unprotected was a power struggle between the two Magister Militi, by all accounts, Stilicho was very loyal to the Empire, and the only reason the Foederati revolted was because the Italian Comitatenses revolted, killed Stilicho, and then lynched their families.

There is also, of course, the issue that the borders were often quite strongly protected, to the detriment of the economic viability of the Empire, and that the refusal of the Roman elite to accept outsiders such as Stilicho as time wore on stripped them of one of Rome's former strengths - the ability to turn their enemies and subjects to their side.

Lmao, that meme is fantastic.

But yeah, we gotta be careful in how we try to use history for our political uses. The histories I've read seem to say that the Romans were as much of the problem as any barbarian group.