United Muscovite Nations wrote:The draft cannot be repealed.
Fake news.
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by Ifreann » Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:06 pm
United Muscovite Nations wrote:The draft cannot be repealed.
by Sicaris » Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:10 pm
by Rezmaeristan » Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:12 pm
by Novus America » Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:14 pm
Ifreann wrote:Novus America wrote:
It is not paying with money.
I know. I did read the post before responding.And why should the community give something to you if you will not give to the community in return?
Because if the community doesn't afford political representation to every member then its government is not legitimate.I would say wanting a free ride from society is the absurdity.
Getting to vote isn't a free ride.Ors Might wrote:It’s not buyingOrs Might wrote:political power in your communiry should be boughtso much as it is earning your way into politics.
I shouldn't need to earn my vote.
by NERVUN » Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:15 pm
Saiwania wrote:This is quite a travesty and a setback, in that it'll significantly harm the nation's ability to mobilize for war.
Ideally, the men should do the waging of warfare whilst the women work the factories and give birth to and raise the future generations. Biology dictates that the womb is more valuable than any one man- whom can be paired with multiple women should there be fewer men available. Thus, it is a vested national interest to protect the women more.
by Ifreann » Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:23 pm
I say no. We have to be ready for anything. In the event that a war breaks out, we need our fighting-age population ready to be mobilized at a moment's notice.
Novus America wrote:Ifreann wrote:I know. I did read the post before responding.
Because if the community doesn't afford political representation to every member then its government is not legitimate.
Getting to vote isn't a free ride.
I shouldn't need to earn my vote.
Someone unwilling to contribute to the community is not a full member of the community.
by Novus America » Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:33 pm
Ifreann wrote:Rezmaeristan wrote:
Yes it can be repealed. But should it?
Yes.I say no. We have to be ready for anything. In the event that a war breaks out, we need our fighting-age population ready to be mobilized at a moment's notice.
America is currently in a bunch of wars.Novus America wrote:
Someone unwilling to contribute to the community is not a full member of the community.
A community demanding contributions in exchange for giving its members political representation is shit.
by Big Jim P » Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:37 pm
Novus America wrote:Ifreann wrote:I know. I did read the post before responding.
Because if the community doesn't afford political representation to every member then its government is not legitimate.
Getting to vote isn't a free ride.
I shouldn't need to earn my vote.
Someone unwilling to contribute to the community is not a full member of the community.
by Ifreann » Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:37 pm
Novus America wrote:Ifreann wrote:Yes.
America is currently in a bunch of wars.
A community demanding contributions in exchange for giving its members political representation is shit.
What makes a member of the community though?
A community can make membership contingent on contributing.
Not everyone automatically gets to be a instant member of any community.
by Big Jim P » Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:45 pm
Ifreann wrote:Novus America wrote:
What makes a member of the community though?
A community can make membership contingent on contributing.
Not everyone automatically gets to be a instant member of any community.
If people can be born, live, and die under a government and never get to vote because that government is shit and demands that people serve it before getting to vote then that government is shit.
by Ifreann » Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:49 pm
Big Jim P wrote:Ifreann wrote:If people can be born, live, and die under a government and never get to vote because that government is shit and demands that people serve it before getting to vote then that government is shit.
Just as shitty as the government that allows those who contribute nothing to vote.
by Novus America » Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:54 pm
Ifreann wrote:Novus America wrote:
What makes a member of the community though?
A community can make membership contingent on contributing.
Not everyone automatically gets to be a instant member of any community.
If people can be born, live, and die under a government and never get to vote because that government is shit and demands that people serve it before getting to vote then that government is shit.
by Reverend Norv » Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:55 pm
For really, I think that the poorest he that is in England hath a life to live as the greatest he. And therefore truly, Sir, I think it's clear that every man that is to live under a Government ought first by his own consent to put himself under that Government. And I do think that the poorest man in England is not at all bound in a strict sense to that Government that he hath not had a voice to put himself under.
Col. Thomas Rainsborough, Putney Debates, 1647
A God who let us prove His existence would be an idol.
Dietrich Bonhoeffer
by Ifreann » Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:00 pm
by Big Jim P » Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:02 pm
Reverend Norv wrote:Big Jim P wrote:
As long as they contribute, yes.
The state exists to serve the people. The people do not exist to serve the state. Its power over us is contingent on the services that it provides to us. Our power over the state is not contingent on the services that we provide to it.
EDIT: to be clear, I believe in public service as a moral obligation. We should all be asking what we can do for our country. But the right to vote is not contingent on that level of virtue. To make it so is to place the most basic of rights in the gift of the state, rather than in the hands of the people.
by Reverend Norv » Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:05 pm
Big Jim P wrote:Reverend Norv wrote:
The state exists to serve the people. The people do not exist to serve the state. Its power over us is contingent on the services that it provides to us. Our power over the state is not contingent on the services that we provide to it.
EDIT: to be clear, I believe in public service as a moral obligation. We should all be asking what we can do for our country. But the right to vote is not contingent on that level of virtue. To make it so is to place the most basic of rights in the gift of the state, rather than in the hands of the people.
As I said before, there are many ways one can contribute to ones community. However, if one chooses not to contribute, then those who do have to pull the non-contributers weight as well as their own.
For really, I think that the poorest he that is in England hath a life to live as the greatest he. And therefore truly, Sir, I think it's clear that every man that is to live under a Government ought first by his own consent to put himself under that Government. And I do think that the poorest man in England is not at all bound in a strict sense to that Government that he hath not had a voice to put himself under.
Col. Thomas Rainsborough, Putney Debates, 1647
A God who let us prove His existence would be an idol.
Dietrich Bonhoeffer
by Ifreann » Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:09 pm
Big Jim P wrote:Reverend Norv wrote:
The state exists to serve the people. The people do not exist to serve the state. Its power over us is contingent on the services that it provides to us. Our power over the state is not contingent on the services that we provide to it.
EDIT: to be clear, I believe in public service as a moral obligation. We should all be asking what we can do for our country. But the right to vote is not contingent on that level of virtue. To make it so is to place the most basic of rights in the gift of the state, rather than in the hands of the people.
As I said before, there are many ways one can contribute to ones community. However, if one chooses not to contribute, then those who do have to pull the non-contributers weight as well as their own.
by Novus America » Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:14 pm
by Ifreann » Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:17 pm
And no country has 100% universal suffrage. There are always some limits.
by Krasny-Volny » Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:21 pm
by Thermodolia » Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:27 pm
Internationalist Bastard wrote:Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
I'd rather we didn't.
The draft is necessary in the event of invasion or rebellion. As unlikely as an invasion/rebellion is at this point in time, it's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.
I just really don’t like forcing people into wars
Especially considering we used it in Vietnam
by Novus America » Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:31 pm
by Thermodolia » Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:32 pm
Genivaria wrote:Replace the draft with universal conscription for 2 years.
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