The Islamic Discussion Thread ٤: It's Always Sunni In Arabia

[Sahansahiye Iran]

If this life only matters for "getting good" with God, then it doesn't matter

That's what makes it matter.

How? It's already decided for you. My every action has already been planned and foreseen. No matter what, it's already been decided whether or not I'm going to Hell so what is the point?

[Khataiy]

Al-Haadi: guides whom he wills
Ar-Rasheed: guides to the right path whom he wills
Al-Wali: friend of those who are friends of him
Al-HafeeDH: guards whom he wills
*Al-QaabiD: witholds knowledge, faith, etc from whom he wills
Al-Muhaymin: protects whom he wills
Al-Mu-min: gives imaan to whom he wills.

Also: http://seekershub.org/ans-blog/2010/09/ ... disbelief/

I mean, you can add all that "to whom he wills" shite as much as you want but that's not actually the Arabic. And it simply shows my point more.

As for that link, it's just more repeated shite about "tests". And it is already shown to be false when applied to orthodox Islamic beliefs of taqdir. Specifically the life decree. Their reaction to that "test" was already chosen for them by Allah. It's him literally setting up a rigged test. One where all the right answers are D but the multiple choice is only A, B, and C. He already knows how they are going to choose, as he is omniscient, right? He knows they are going to fail and still sets it for them. The entire thing in Islam is basically based upon whether God feels like interfering. That's the definition of arbitrary.

God created us as he willed, it is his right to rule over our affairs, and in this right he is entitled to exercise it as freely or as limited as he wishes hence why it is a right rather than an obligation because God is not bound to obligations, he rules because it his his right to do so.

[Washington Resistance Army]

That's what makes it matter.

How? It's already decided for you. My every action has already been planned and foreseen. No matter what, it's already been decided whether or not I'm going to Hell so what is the point?

^

This is the problem with omniscience and omnibenevolence. In the case of religions like Islam or Christianity they present a (imo) pretty big logical conflict that can't be easily reconciled without some silly thought.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Al-Haadi: guides whom he wills
Ar-Rasheed: guides to the right path whom he wills
Al-Wali: friend of those who are friends of him
Al-HafeeDH: guards whom he wills
*Al-QaabiD: witholds knowledge, faith, etc from whom he wills
Al-Muhaymin: protects whom he wills
Al-Mu-min: gives imaan to whom he wills.

Also: http://seekershub.org/ans-blog/2010/09/ ... disbelief/

I mean, you can add all that "to whom he wills" shite as much as you want but that's not actually the Arabic.

I know, I was giving context.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

They did believe in Islam as the truth because their message is no different than that of Islam

Yeah, the Hebrews were huge fans of Muhammad as God’s messager! Oh wait, no. How about hell? No, they don’t have that either. Jesus as a prophet? Nope, he’s a false messiah. The true faith being for those who were not ethnically Jewish? Absolutely not.

There were Jews who converted to Al-Islam.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

I mean while they still (correctly) don't believe in the first three, the last one had by large disappeared by the time they'd been banished into Europe by Rome I think.

Yes, but he’s trying to claim that the Ancient Hebrews were actually Muslims.

Some were.

[The of Japan]

What does the Quran say about the bible and torah?

[Khataiy]

What does the Quran say about the bible and torah?

That they are the speech of God and equal in status to the Quran

[El-Amin Caliphate]

What does the Quran say about the bible and torah?

The Holy Qur'an talks about the Injeel (Gospel) and Zabur (Psalms), so we don't believe in the whole Bible. Notheless, we believe that the original Injeel, Zabur and Tawrat (Torah) are the word of Allah SWT.

[Sahansahiye Iran]

What does the Quran say about the bible and torah?

That they are the speech of God and equal in status to the Quran

Equal?

What?

[New haven america]

Yes, but he’s trying to claim that the Ancient Hebrews were actually Muslims.

Some were.

How can Ancient Hebrews, a people that existed around the time of the Roman Empire, be Muslim, if Islam didn't exist until ~600 AD?

[The Grims]

So the husband can hit the wife is she is starting drama but she can't do the same... How is that equality exactly.

It's called equity.

No, it is called being a loser who is afraid of his wife and unable to treat her decently.

[New haven america]

It's called equity.

No, it is called being a loser who is afraid of his wife and unable to treat her decently.

I mean, obviously he's not afraid of his wife.

He wouldn't be beating "Correcting" her if that was the case.

[Khataiy]

That they are the speech of God and equal in status to the Quran

Equal?

What?

We hold the Quran as equal to the Gospel, Torah and Psalms yes

[Sahansahiye Iran]

Equal?

What?

We hold the Quran as equal to the Gospel, Torah and Psalms yes

Can you provide one source on that? Almost two decades as a Muslim and I never heard that. They're all given by God but the Gospels and Torah are flawed while the Quran is perfect.

[Khataiy]

We hold the Quran as equal to the Gospel, Torah and Psalms yes

Can you provide one source on that? Almost two decades as a Muslim and I never heard that. They're all given by God but the Gospels and Torah are flawed while the Quran is perfect.

Yes this is true, but in terms of its originality the original Torah and Gospel are held in this regard as equal to the Quran

[Sahansahiye Iran]

Can you provide one source on that? Almost two decades as a Muslim and I never heard that. They're all given by God but the Gospels and Torah are flawed while the Quran is perfect.

Yes this is true, but in terms of its originality the original Torah and Gospel are held in this regard as equal to the Quran

Ah. The original. Okay, that's a pretty important bit to leave out, don't you think?

[Khataiy]

Yes this is true, but in terms of its originality the original Torah and Gospel are held in this regard as equal to the Quran

Ah. The original. Okay, that's a pretty important bit to leave out, don't you think?

I don't consider the altered versions as the Gospel and Torah.

[The of Japan]

Ah. The original. Okay, that's a pretty important bit to leave out, don't you think?

I don't consider the altered versions as the Gospel and Torah.

"altered"

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Some were.

How can Ancient Hebrews, a people that existed around the time of the Roman Empire, be Muslim, if Islam didn't exist until ~600 AD?

Al-Islam has existed since the beginning of time. It's final form has existed since ~600 AD.

It's called equity.

No, it is called being a loser who is afraid of his wife and unable to treat her decently.

That's why divorce exist if he can't treat her decently.

I don't consider the altered versions as the Gospel and Torah.

"altered"

Considering that the Gospel isn't even in its original language anymore yes, it's was altered.

[The Grims]

No, it is called being a loser who is afraid of his wife and unable to treat her decently.

That's why divorce exist if he can't treat her decently.

So when their spouse misbehaves a man is supposed to hit them, while a woman is supposed to ask for divorce ?
How easy is it for a woman to get a divorce in Islam ?

And nice to hear muslims are super saiyans. Makes them aweso e

[Washington Resistance Army]

Considering that the Gospel isn't even in its original language anymore yes, it's was altered.

You can go learn Koine Greek and read the originals afaik, the translations are remarkably good.

[The Grims]

Considering that the Gospel isn't even in its original language anymore yes, it's was altered.

You can go learn Koine Greek and read the originals afaik, the translations are remarkably good.

Those are not the originals, merely the oldest copies we have.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

That's why divorce exist if he can't treat her decently.

So when their spouse misbehaves a man is supposed to hit them, while a woman is supposed to ask for divorce ?

No, that's not a reason to divorce.

How easy is it for a woman to get a divorce in Islam ?

http://www.islamic-sharia.org/khula/
https://archive.islamonline.net/?p=1293

And nice to hear muslims are super saiyans. Makes them aweso e

What?

[Frievolk]

So when their spouse misbehaves a man is supposed to hit them, while a woman is supposed to ask for divorce ?

No, that's not a reason to divorce.

How easy is it for a woman to get a divorce in Islam ?

http://www.islamic-sharia.org/khula/
https://archive.islamonline.net/?p=1293

And nice to hear muslims are super saiyans. Makes them aweso e

What?

Holy shit the woman can't even divorce if the husband does a level of fucky enough shit that would qualify beating her black and blue if it was the wife doing it? (The "light tap")
Why would a woman get married at all? what? the woman's opinion was never asked for in Traditional Islam? Nevermind, My bad.