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Is Inequality Good? New concept says "Very much so"

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Great Minarchistan
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Is Inequality Good? New concept says "Very much so"

Postby Great Minarchistan » Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:23 am

For decades (possibly centuries), the dispute regarding the gap between the rich and the poor has been as fiercely divided as the socioeconomic conditions of both groups. From those who highlight the disparity between the vilified top 1% and the bottom 99% to those who consider the current inequality levels as reasonable, there's often the common consideration that constantly high/increasing inequality levels is inherently bad, citing studies that prove it lowers economic dynamism -- even though most of the decrease is credited to a lower incidence of ravage consumerism, which is a good thing from an environmentalist and neoclassical POV.

However, Tyler Cowen lays a rather interesting case for the subsidization of the wealthy in his book. Simply put, when analyzing return over capital and trickledown rates it is definitely possible for the poor to be better off by handling their money to the top earners. The logic is that, assuming that the long-run trickle down rate of the income generated on the economy is 30% (a good year in the markets renders around 20%, so 30% as a mean isn't really stretching it), the bottom earners would need the wealthy to have capital returns just a bit over three times higher than themselves to achieve a breakeven on upward income redistribution. Such figures -- at least in the developed world -- are definitely attainable as explicited in the spoiler below:

Image

This chart, alternatively known as the elephant chart, details on the global income growth from 1988 to 2008 by percentile of income. The developed lower middle class (all the way to upper middle) is situated around the P85-95 level, where the mean income growth was approximatedly 15%. The top 1%, on the other hand, reaped an income growth of 65% over the same time period, more than four times higher than the bottom earners. Under such scenario, redistributing money to the top percent would be a good idea for the typical citizen in the First World. Knowing that the bulk of the income of the wealthiest derives from capital gains and businesses (approx. 75pc in longrun estimates) the notion is reinforced since the vast majority of income gains from the rich is implied to come from investments, not real wage growth. Such proposal can be also applied to the extremely poor countries (located at P1-5 level) with a clique of few extraordinary rich men.


Truthfully, from a historical scope, such concept might go to the extent of justifying why developing countries with redistributive policies to the poor eventually decayed into a trap of low growth (e.g. USSR, Brazil) while poor countries which maintained a caste of rich people being constantly subsidized by the State eventually ascended to attain personal incomes equivalent to First World levels (e.g. South Korea with the Chaebols and Japan with the Zaibatsu).

Albeit the OP does seem a bit bloggy due to the extent of the explanation involved, I really think it's necessary to bring this up to the NS community given the raging debates on inequality that have been long happening. That said, I'd like to hear the arguments from the users regarding the subsidization of the rich, since it's an innovative solution to boost the condition of extremely poor countries.
Last edited by Great Minarchistan on Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Darussalam
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Postby Darussalam » Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:31 am

At worst, it's not worse than redistribution to the poor.

The key is ensuring more wealth creation - since workers are unable to accumulate human or physical capital themselves, it is rational that they would tax themselves to subsidize the growth of capital.

Unless political discussions of inequality aren't about improving people's condition at all. Which they indeed aren't. They're fundamentally status competition, and this is done at the expense of material wealth.

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Great Minarchistan
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Postby Great Minarchistan » Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:38 am

Darussalam wrote:At worst, it's not worse than redistribution to the poor.

The key is ensuring more wealth creation - since workers are unable to accumulate human or physical capital themselves, it is rational that they would tax themselves to subsidize the growth of capital.

Unless political discussions of inequality aren't about improving people's condition at all. Which they indeed aren't. They're fundamentally status competition, and this is done at the expense of material wealth.

Indeed. The author himself laid the case for the subsidization of the rich but he doesn't think it's ideal because he rejects utilitarianism and instead sticks to "muh human rights", because after all it doesn't matter how effective a policy is if you don't virtue-signal your love to the poor.
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LiberNovusAmericae
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Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:03 am

While I'm supportive of natural inequality, I am strongly opposed to a class of aristocrats being subsidized by the state. If a wealthy individual falls or rises, it is not for the state to intervene.

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Great Minarchistan
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Postby Great Minarchistan » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:05 am

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:While I'm supportive of natural inequality, I am strongly opposed to a class of aristocrats being subsidized by the state. If a wealthy individual falls or rises, it is not for the state to intervene.

The success of the wealthy aristocrats is far higher than the success of ordinary, poor people though. As a result, its a net societal gain to subsidize the rich -- think of it as giving money to the best managers you know of.
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LiberNovusAmericae
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Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:11 am

Great Minarchistan wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:While I'm supportive of natural inequality, I am strongly opposed to a class of aristocrats being subsidized by the state. If a wealthy individual falls or rises, it is not for the state to intervene.

The success of the wealthy aristocrats is far higher than the success of ordinary, poor people though. As a result, its a net societal gain to subsidize the rich -- think of it as giving money to the best managers you know of.

Yes, it would be my tax money, so strongly opposed.

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Great Minarchistan
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Postby Great Minarchistan » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:15 am

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Great Minarchistan wrote:The success of the wealthy aristocrats is far higher than the success of ordinary, poor people though. As a result, its a net societal gain to subsidize the rich -- think of it as giving money to the best managers you know of.

Yes, it would be my tax money, so strongly opposed.

Doesnt need to be coercive, short term incentives to subsidize the rich would do the trick. Needless to say, you would be benefited in the long run -- not much different from the income bonuses granted by further education in one's life.
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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:15 am

Great Minarchistan wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:While I'm supportive of natural inequality, I am strongly opposed to a class of aristocrats being subsidized by the state. If a wealthy individual falls or rises, it is not for the state to intervene.

The success of the wealthy aristocrats is far higher than the success of ordinary, poor people though. As a result, its a net societal gain to subsidize the rich -- think of it as giving money to the best managers you know of.

I think I hear the Internationale and the State Anthem of the Soviet Union playing in the background
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An Alan Smithee Nation
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Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:15 am

Do other astrologers agree with him?
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Salandriagado
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Postby Salandriagado » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:19 am

Meanwhile, in reality, exactly the opposite is true.
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

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Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:20 am

Salandriagado wrote:Meanwhile, in reality, exactly the opposite is true.

You can’t bring facts and stuff in here!!
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Great Minarchistan
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Postby Great Minarchistan » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:27 am

Salandriagado wrote:Meanwhile, in reality, exactly the opposite is true.

Much of this is -- as mentioned in the first lines of the OP -- consumption fodder or just promotion of cheap military keynesianism (check the 145¢ per dollar return on military for instance, which both of us know is blatantly false since a small share of the Defense budget goes to R&D while a large part of it is destined to destruction of structures and murder of people in the world). When factoring in the true long-term engine of sustainable growth, namely boosting formation of capital and improvement of human capital, subsidizing the rich might be a very good idea after all.
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Great Minarchistan
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Postby Great Minarchistan » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:28 am

An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:Do other astrologers agree with him?

Do you have any argument worth of substance or are you unable to comment because it's not about helping the disadvantaged in a direct way?
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Greater Carolinas
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Postby Greater Carolinas » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:29 am

Thermodolia wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:Meanwhile, in reality, exactly the opposite is true.

You can’t bring facts and stuff in here!!

Now this is epic, pwn them with your facts and logic

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An Alan Smithee Nation
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Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:45 am

Great Minarchistan wrote:
An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:Do other astrologers agree with him?

Do you have any argument worth of substance or are you unable to comment because it's not about helping the disadvantaged in a direct way?


Are you really taking this seriously, as opposed to seeing it as a way for him to sell books?
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Great Minarchistan
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Postby Great Minarchistan » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:48 am

An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:
Great Minarchistan wrote:Do you have any argument worth of substance or are you unable to comment because it's not about helping the disadvantaged in a direct way?


Are you really taking this seriously, as opposed to seeing it as a way for him to sell books?

I'm not being paid by him to advertise his shit and even if I were, surely not worth it to spend 40 mins of my time to gain peanuts.
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Torrocca
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Postby Torrocca » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:50 am

We're reaching unironic peak NeoFeudalism being promoted by """""Libertarians""""" on NSG now? Imagine my shock at this development.
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Great Minarchistan
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Postby Great Minarchistan » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:52 am

Torrocca wrote:We're reaching unironic peak NeoFeudalism being promoted by """""Libertarians""""" on NSG now? Imagine my shock at this development.

I'm rather surprised to see you admitting that feudalism offers better social progress than social democratic capitalism.
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Torrocca
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Postby Torrocca » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:55 am

Great Minarchistan wrote:
Torrocca wrote:We're reaching unironic peak NeoFeudalism being promoted by """""Libertarians""""" on NSG now? Imagine my shock at this development.

I'm rather surprised to see you admitting that feudalism offers better social progress than social democratic capitalism.


The only one who's peddling that lie is yourself.
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The Western Civilization
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Postby The Western Civilization » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:56 am

A great idea which I agree with 100%. Why isn't it an official ideology?
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Iridencia
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Postby Iridencia » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:57 am

"New" concept? """""""""""New""""""""""" concept?

What's with all these wide-eyed, self-congratulatory, young right-wingers trying to pretend that ideas like "the rich are just better than the poor," or "women are most equal when they stay in the kitchen," or "human races are just different," are all new, revolutionary breakthroughs? They're not, they've just never read a history book, and that's why they buy into it.

I'm sorry, I don't care how many times you lazily paint over the expatriation date on that can, the food inside is still rotten and shit.

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Hystaria
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Postby Hystaria » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:57 am

Great Minarchistan wrote:
Torrocca wrote:We're reaching unironic peak NeoFeudalism being promoted by """""Libertarians""""" on NSG now? Imagine my shock at this development.

I'm rather surprised to see you admitting that feudalism offers better social progress than social democratic capitalism.

This a sad event.
Especially with you stretching ten percent and saying its not a big deal. While still going off of an alternate amount to justify current economic reasons....
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Great Minarchistan
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Postby Great Minarchistan » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:57 am

Torrocca wrote:
Great Minarchistan wrote:I'm rather surprised to see you admitting that feudalism offers better social progress than social democratic capitalism.


The only one who's peddling that lie is yourself.

Not what your comment (and in special your recent comments) has demonstrated. Perhaps your irony is reaching such intense levels that you are in fact agreeing with the thesis.
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Hammer Britannia
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Postby Hammer Britannia » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:58 am

Torrocca wrote:
Great Minarchistan wrote:I'm rather surprised to see you admitting that feudalism offers better social progress than social democratic capitalism.


The only one who's peddling that lie is yourself.

GM is a classical liberal LARPing as a RIght-Libertarian, pay no mind to him.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:58 am

"Inequality is good because the wealth will trickle down"

This is a new idea?

Did someone go back in time and erase Reagonomics?
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