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LWDT VI: Kropotkin's Bread Dead Redemption.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Which Form of Leftism is The Best?

Left-Libertarianism
125
55%
Yes
66
29%
Left-Authoritarianism
37
16%
 
Total votes : 228

User avatar
Volkari
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 144
Founded: Jan 22, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Volkari » Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:48 pm

Dumb Ideologies wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:So this is how liberty dies...


Plot twist: liberty is always a sockpuppet and has never been alive.


Liberty is only possible in the totalitarian whole where all members of the community become a part of the state through corporatism. Only when every individual sees himself as the State can freedom be realized.
Proud Red White Blue Fascist
Giuseppe Mazzini wrote:So long as you are ready to die for humanity, the life of your country is immortal.
Fact: Uncle Sherman did nothing wrong

User avatar
Democratic Communist Federation
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5297
Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:15 pm

Volkari wrote:Liberty is only possible in the totalitarian whole where all members of the community become a part of the state through corporatism. Only when every individual sees himself as the State can freedom be realized.


Individuals are real. States are not.
Ššālōm ʿălēyəḵẹm, Mōšẹh ʾẠhărōn hạ•Lēwiy bẹn Hẹʿrəšẹʿl (Hebrew/Yiddish, מֹשֶׁה אַהֲרֹן הַלֵוִי בֶּן הֶערְשֶׁעל) ⭐ ⚑ ☥
third campism•Libertarian Marxist Social Fiction•critical realism•Antifa•Dialectical metaRealism ☝️ The
MarkFoster.NETwork
☭ You are welcome as an embassy of Antifa Dialectical metaRealism. ☪ Our ♥️ ḏik°r
(Arabic, ذِكْر. remembrance): Yā Bahāˁ ʾal•⫯Ab°haỳ, wa•yā ʿAliyy ʾal•⫯Aʿ°laỳ! (Arabic, !يَا بَهَاء لأَبْهَى ، وَيَا عَلِيّ الأَعْلَى)
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[color=#ff0000]Member,[/color] [url=https://www.nationstates.net/nation=democratic_communist_federation/detail=factbook/id=870177][color=#ff0000][u]Antifa Dialectical metaRealism[/u][/color][/url]

User avatar
Northern Davincia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16960
Founded: Jun 10, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Northern Davincia » Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:17 pm

Torrocca wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:If you can't use freedom to do stuff others don't like, you don't have freedom.


Freedom to do things that others dislike is fine.

Freedom to oppress or harm another, however (which Capitalism does :3) is no bueno.

Except that it doesn't.
Hoppean Libertarian, Acolyte of von Mises, Protector of Our Sacred Liberties
Economic Left/Right: 9.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.05
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

User avatar
Volkari
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 144
Founded: Jan 22, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Volkari » Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:18 pm

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
Volkari wrote:Liberty is only possible in the totalitarian whole where all members of the community become a part of the state through corporatism. Only when every individual sees himself as the State can freedom be realized.


Individuals are real. States are not.


I didn't peg you for a nominalist.

The state is the spiritual creation of individuals. It's an extension of the mind of the subjects that think it.
Last edited by Volkari on Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Proud Red White Blue Fascist
Giuseppe Mazzini wrote:So long as you are ready to die for humanity, the life of your country is immortal.
Fact: Uncle Sherman did nothing wrong

User avatar
Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 45025
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Kowani » Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:19 pm

Volkari wrote:
Dumb Ideologies wrote:
Plot twist: liberty is always a sockpuppet and has never been alive.


Liberty is only possible in the totalitarian whole where all members of the community become a part of the state through corporatism. Only when every individual sees himself as the State can freedom be realized.

All kinds of no.
American History and Historiography; Political and Labour History, Urbanism, Political Parties, Congressional Procedure, Elections.

Servant of The Democracy since 1896.


Historian, of sorts.

Effortposts can be found here!

User avatar
Democratic Communist Federation
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5297
Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:20 pm

Volkari wrote:I didn't peg you for a nominalist.

The state is the spiritual creation of individuals. It's an extension of the mind of the subjects that think it.


A nominalist would not say that individuals are real. A particularist might. However, I am a critical realist. What I wrote is based on critical realism.
Ššālōm ʿălēyəḵẹm, Mōšẹh ʾẠhărōn hạ•Lēwiy bẹn Hẹʿrəšẹʿl (Hebrew/Yiddish, מֹשֶׁה אַהֲרֹן הַלֵוִי בֶּן הֶערְשֶׁעל) ⭐ ⚑ ☥
third campism•Libertarian Marxist Social Fiction•critical realism•Antifa•Dialectical metaRealism ☝️ The
MarkFoster.NETwork
☭ You are welcome as an embassy of Antifa Dialectical metaRealism. ☪ Our ♥️ ḏik°r
(Arabic, ذِكْر. remembrance): Yā Bahāˁ ʾal•⫯Ab°haỳ, wa•yā ʿAliyy ʾal•⫯Aʿ°laỳ! (Arabic, !يَا بَهَاء لأَبْهَى ، وَيَا عَلِيّ الأَعْلَى)
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[color=#ff0000]Member,[/color] [url=https://www.nationstates.net/nation=democratic_communist_federation/detail=factbook/id=870177][color=#ff0000][u]Antifa Dialectical metaRealism[/u][/color][/url]

User avatar
Volkari
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 144
Founded: Jan 22, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Volkari » Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:24 pm

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
Volkari wrote:I didn't peg you for a nominalist.

The state is the spiritual creation of individuals. It's an extension of the mind of the subjects that think it.


A nominalist would not say that individuals are real. A particularist might. However, I am a critical realist. What I wrote is based on critical realism.


Yes they would, see Stirner's Der Einzige und sein Eigentum.
Proud Red White Blue Fascist
Giuseppe Mazzini wrote:So long as you are ready to die for humanity, the life of your country is immortal.
Fact: Uncle Sherman did nothing wrong

User avatar
Volkari
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 144
Founded: Jan 22, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Volkari » Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:27 pm

Kowani wrote:
Volkari wrote:
Liberty is only possible in the totalitarian whole where all members of the community become a part of the state through corporatism. Only when every individual sees himself as the State can freedom be realized.

All kinds of no.


It's an inevitable outcome of the dialectical struggle between individualism and collectivism.
Proud Red White Blue Fascist
Giuseppe Mazzini wrote:So long as you are ready to die for humanity, the life of your country is immortal.
Fact: Uncle Sherman did nothing wrong

User avatar
Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 45025
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Kowani » Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:35 pm

Volkari wrote:
Kowani wrote:All kinds of no.


It's an inevitable outcome of the dialectical struggle between individualism and collectivism.

Word salad that posits much while proving naught.
American History and Historiography; Political and Labour History, Urbanism, Political Parties, Congressional Procedure, Elections.

Servant of The Democracy since 1896.


Historian, of sorts.

Effortposts can be found here!

User avatar
Democratic Communist Federation
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5297
Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:41 pm

Volkari wrote:Yes they would, see Stirner's Der Einzige und sein Eigentum.


Where did Max Stirner call himself a nominalist?
Ššālōm ʿălēyəḵẹm, Mōšẹh ʾẠhărōn hạ•Lēwiy bẹn Hẹʿrəšẹʿl (Hebrew/Yiddish, מֹשֶׁה אַהֲרֹן הַלֵוִי בֶּן הֶערְשֶׁעל) ⭐ ⚑ ☥
third campism•Libertarian Marxist Social Fiction•critical realism•Antifa•Dialectical metaRealism ☝️ The
MarkFoster.NETwork
☭ You are welcome as an embassy of Antifa Dialectical metaRealism. ☪ Our ♥️ ḏik°r
(Arabic, ذِكْر. remembrance): Yā Bahāˁ ʾal•⫯Ab°haỳ, wa•yā ʿAliyy ʾal•⫯Aʿ°laỳ! (Arabic, !يَا بَهَاء لأَبْهَى ، وَيَا عَلِيّ الأَعْلَى)
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[color=#ff0000]Member,[/color] [url=https://www.nationstates.net/nation=democratic_communist_federation/detail=factbook/id=870177][color=#ff0000][u]Antifa Dialectical metaRealism[/u][/color][/url]

User avatar
Volkari
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 144
Founded: Jan 22, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Volkari » Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:48 pm

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
Volkari wrote:Yes they would, see Stirner's Der Einzige und sein Eigentum.


Where did Max Stirner call himself a nominalist?


I don't know if he ever did, but his work is identified as radical nominalism. Whatever he called himself has no bearing.
Proud Red White Blue Fascist
Giuseppe Mazzini wrote:So long as you are ready to die for humanity, the life of your country is immortal.
Fact: Uncle Sherman did nothing wrong

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9866
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:49 pm

Volkari wrote:
Dumb Ideologies wrote:
Plot twist: liberty is always a sockpuppet and has never been alive.


Liberty is only possible in the totalitarian whole where all members of the community become a part of the state through corporatism. Only when every individual sees himself as the State can freedom be realized.

Liberty is only possible through totalitarianism. And war is peace, ignorance is strength and all that wholesome stuff.
Nationality: Australian
Gender: MTF trans woman (she/her)
Political Ideology: Liberalism
Discord: mellotronyellow

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9866
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:50 pm

Volkari wrote:
Kowani wrote:All kinds of no.


It's an inevitable outcome of the dialectical struggle between individualism and collectivism.

The inevitable outcome is individualism winning by becoming collectivism?
Nationality: Australian
Gender: MTF trans woman (she/her)
Political Ideology: Liberalism
Discord: mellotronyellow

User avatar
Volkari
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 144
Founded: Jan 22, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Volkari » Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:50 pm

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Volkari wrote:
Liberty is only possible in the totalitarian whole where all members of the community become a part of the state through corporatism. Only when every individual sees himself as the State can freedom be realized.

Liberty is only possible through totalitarianism. And war is peace, ignorance is strength and all that wholesome stuff.


Yes, yes, I'm sure you totally read 1984 and not the SparkNotes.
Proud Red White Blue Fascist
Giuseppe Mazzini wrote:So long as you are ready to die for humanity, the life of your country is immortal.
Fact: Uncle Sherman did nothing wrong

User avatar
Democratic Communist Federation
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5297
Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:55 pm

Volkari wrote:I don't know if he ever did, but his work is identified as radical nominalism. Whatever he called himself has no bearing.


He is also commonly identified as an anarchist. He attacked anarchism in his writings.

So, I repeat my question: Where did Stirner ever identify himself as a nominalist?
Ššālōm ʿălēyəḵẹm, Mōšẹh ʾẠhărōn hạ•Lēwiy bẹn Hẹʿrəšẹʿl (Hebrew/Yiddish, מֹשֶׁה אַהֲרֹן הַלֵוִי בֶּן הֶערְשֶׁעל) ⭐ ⚑ ☥
third campism•Libertarian Marxist Social Fiction•critical realism•Antifa•Dialectical metaRealism ☝️ The
MarkFoster.NETwork
☭ You are welcome as an embassy of Antifa Dialectical metaRealism. ☪ Our ♥️ ḏik°r
(Arabic, ذِكْر. remembrance): Yā Bahāˁ ʾal•⫯Ab°haỳ, wa•yā ʿAliyy ʾal•⫯Aʿ°laỳ! (Arabic, !يَا بَهَاء لأَبْهَى ، وَيَا عَلِيّ الأَعْلَى)
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Pasong Tirad
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13776
Founded: May 31, 2007
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Pasong Tirad » Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:57 pm

Volkari wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Liberty is only possible through totalitarianism. And war is peace, ignorance is strength and all that wholesome stuff.


Yes, yes, I'm sure you totally read 1984 and not the SparkNotes.

That's it, we're all done guys, he's seen right through us. We don't actually read anything. Let's all pack up and leave he wins the internet.
Last edited by Pasong Tirad on Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Volkari
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 144
Founded: Jan 22, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Volkari » Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:06 pm

Pasong Tirad wrote:
Volkari wrote:
Yes, yes, I'm sure you totally read 1984 and not the SparkNotes.

That's it, we're all done guys, he's seen right through us. We don't actually read anything. Let's all pack up and leave he wins the internet.


Clearly you don't if you think that 1984 is everything.
Proud Red White Blue Fascist
Giuseppe Mazzini wrote:So long as you are ready to die for humanity, the life of your country is immortal.
Fact: Uncle Sherman did nothing wrong

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9866
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:15 pm

Volkari wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Liberty is only possible through totalitarianism. And war is peace, ignorance is strength and all that wholesome stuff.


Yes, yes, I'm sure you totally read 1984 and not the SparkNotes.

I have read 1984. It's a pretty good book. Don't see how whether or not I've read it makes your point any less or more stupid and contradictory.
Nationality: Australian
Gender: MTF trans woman (she/her)
Political Ideology: Liberalism
Discord: mellotronyellow

User avatar
Pasong Tirad
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13776
Founded: May 31, 2007
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Pasong Tirad » Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:32 pm

Volkari wrote:
Pasong Tirad wrote:That's it, we're all done guys, he's seen right through us. We don't actually read anything. Let's all pack up and leave he wins the internet.


Clearly you don't if you think that 1984 is everything.

Please try and point out where I said that.

User avatar
Volkari
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 144
Founded: Jan 22, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Volkari » Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:35 pm

Pasong Tirad wrote:
Volkari wrote:
Clearly you don't if you think that 1984 is everything.

Please try and point out where I said that.


Pasong Tirad wrote:That's it, we're all done guys, he's seen right through us. We don't actually read anything. Let's all pack up and leave he wins the internet.


In response to me sarcastically noting that Xenopolis probably never read 1984 like 99% of people who reference that book.
Last edited by Volkari on Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Proud Red White Blue Fascist
Giuseppe Mazzini wrote:So long as you are ready to die for humanity, the life of your country is immortal.
Fact: Uncle Sherman did nothing wrong

User avatar
Volkari
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 144
Founded: Jan 22, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Volkari » Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:49 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Dumb Ideologies wrote:
Good anarkitties don't spoil sequels.


Whoa now, you silly statist! I'm an anarkitty, which means I don't gotta listen to you! >:^3


Image
Proud Red White Blue Fascist
Giuseppe Mazzini wrote:So long as you are ready to die for humanity, the life of your country is immortal.
Fact: Uncle Sherman did nothing wrong

User avatar
Pasong Tirad
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13776
Founded: May 31, 2007
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Pasong Tirad » Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:00 pm

Volkari wrote:
Pasong Tirad wrote:Please try and point out where I said that.


Pasong Tirad wrote:That's it, we're all done guys, he's seen right through us. We don't actually read anything. Let's all pack up and leave he wins the internet.


In response to me sarcastically noting that Xenopolis probably never read 1984 like 99% of people who reference that book.

Right, but where there did I mention that "1984 is everything"?

And you must think so low of people to actually believe that "99% of people who reference that book" haven't read it.

User avatar
Volkari
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 144
Founded: Jan 22, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Volkari » Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:11 pm

Pasong Tirad wrote:Right, but where there did I mention that "1984 is everything"?


When you somehow grasped that "probably never read 1984" equals "people on the internet never read ever."
Pasong Tirad wrote:And you must think so low of people to actually believe that "99% of people who reference that book" haven't read it.


It's a product of a Southern childhood having to listen to people like Rush Limbaugh or Glenn Beck.
Proud Red White Blue Fascist
Giuseppe Mazzini wrote:So long as you are ready to die for humanity, the life of your country is immortal.
Fact: Uncle Sherman did nothing wrong

User avatar
Pasong Tirad
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13776
Founded: May 31, 2007
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Pasong Tirad » Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:36 pm

Volkari wrote:
Pasong Tirad wrote:Right, but where there did I mention that "1984 is everything"?


When you somehow grasped that "probably never read 1984" equals "people on the internet never read ever."

What you just said makes no sense to me.

Volkari wrote:
Pasong Tirad wrote:And you must think so low of people to actually believe that "99% of people who reference that book" haven't read it.


It's a product of a Southern childhood having to listen to people like Rush Limbaugh or Glenn Beck.

Great. Still wrong, though.

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9866
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:43 pm

Volkari wrote:
Pasong Tirad wrote:Please try and point out where I said that.


Pasong Tirad wrote:That's it, we're all done guys, he's seen right through us. We don't actually read anything. Let's all pack up and leave he wins the internet.


In response to me sarcastically noting that Xenopolis probably never read 1984 like 99% of people who reference that book.

Why don't you think anyone's read 1984?
Nationality: Australian
Gender: MTF trans woman (she/her)
Political Ideology: Liberalism
Discord: mellotronyellow

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