AT&T plans to fire 7,000 people

[Thermodolia]

You do realize that the DuffleBlog is satire right? It’s the military’s version of the Onion

Really? It was taken as a serious source on the other thread.

My bad.

It wasn’t taken as a serious source on the shutdown thread. One poster got confused.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Really? It was taken as a serious source on the other thread.

My bad.





How long will they have to live without back pay or any pay?





I'm arguing that furloughed employees are acting like unemployed when it comes to living situation and in impact on local economy,

"Acting like unemployed" is pretty irrelevant to unemployment statistics.

Wasn't using unemployment statistics. I am using impact on local economy.


For example:

Mike and Dave are regulars at Steve's Bakery.

Mike gets fired, Dave gets unpaid by the government.

Both stop going to Steve's Bakery as a result.

This impacts Steve's Bakery's income.

Thus, Steve has to fire someone to maintain the profitability of the Bakery.

Now apply that example to every store Mike and Dave ever regular at.

[Ethel mermania]

It doesn't quack like a duck, it caws like a crow.

When you are employed, that means you are on a payroll. You are eventually going to get paid when your bosses sort out their bullshit. This is the exact opposite of unemployment where you aren't on a payroll and you are not eventually going to get paid.

That it is the longest shutdown in history with no end in sight and you are not working doesn't mean anything, it's going to end and employees are going to get paid again, probably with backpay.

When is it going to end? How long will they live without pay?

As long as they aren't being payed, for all intense and purposes there life and there impact on the local economy is close to that of an unemployed person.

Well they still have their health benefits, and their time still accrues for pension benefits.

That said this thread is not about the shutdown but T, maybe you all should get back on topic?

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Really? It was taken as a serious source on the other thread.

My bad.





How long will they have to live without back pay or any pay?





I'm arguing that furloughed employees are acting like unemployed when it comes to living situation and in impact on local economy,

Yes the shutdown is bad.
Problem is you appear to be thread jacking your own thread, or setting the land speed record via moving goalposts.

We already have a shutdown thread.

It has nothing to do with AT&T restructuring because of a merger.

Neither. If people are not getting payed the reasons don't matter to the businesses they purchase goods or services from.


AT&T firing 7,000 people has the effect of the government shutdown, people not getting payed.

Will they get new jobs and in essence restart there income? Will the government shutdown end?

Hopefully yes and yes respectively.

But will it damage the local economy beacuse of this? Yes. And that has a ripple effect to nearly every business on the planet.

[Petrolheadia]

"Acting like unemployed" is pretty irrelevant to unemployment statistics.

Wasn't using unemployment statistics. I am using impact on local economy.


For example:

Mike and Dave are regulars at Steve's Bakery.

Mike gets fired, Dave gets unpaid by the government.

Both stop going to Steve's Bakery as a result.

This impacts Steve's Bakery's income.

Thus, Steve has to fire someone to maintain the profitability of the Bakery.

Now apply that example to every store Mike and Dave ever regular at.

And then Steve has to hire again, because Dave gets his money and can pay, and Mike likely gets a new job.

[Novus America]

Yes the shutdown is bad.
Problem is you appear to be thread jacking your own thread, or setting the land speed record via moving goalposts.

We already have a shutdown thread.

It has nothing to do with AT&T restructuring because of a merger.

Neither. If people are not getting payed the reasons don't matter to the businesses they purchase goods or services from.


AT&T firing 7,000 people has the effect of the government shutdown, people not getting payed.

Will they get new jobs and in essence restart there income? Will the government shutdown end?

Hopefully yes and yes respectively.

But will it damage the local economy beacuse of this? Yes. And that has a ripple effect to nearly every business on the planet.

Of course AT&T laying people off will had some short term negative impacts.
Nobody is denying that.

[Ethel mermania]

Yes the shutdown is bad.
Problem is you appear to be thread jacking your own thread, or setting the land speed record via moving goalposts.

We already have a shutdown thread.

It has nothing to do with AT&T restructuring because of a merger.

Neither. If people are not getting payed the reasons don't matter to the businesses they purchase goods or services from.


AT&T firing 7,000 people has the effect of the government shutdown, people not getting payed.

Will they get new jobs and in essence restart there income? Will the government shutdown end?

Hopefully yes and yes respectively.

But will it damage the local economy beacuse of this? Yes. And that has a ripple effect to nearly every business on the planet.

Again, they hired 27,000 in the past two years. They are killing off their POTS and DSL business. They are laying off 7,000 workers to streamline their operations to be in align with the company they want to be. They don't want to sell POTS lines anymore, why should they keep those people?

[Israeli Defense Force]

AT&T firing 7,000 people has the effect of the government shutdown, people not getting payed.

Still unrelated. And are the firings related to the tax breaks at all?

And Ethel pointed out here that AT&T has also hired 27,000 people in the last two years: https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=35177580#p35177580

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Wasn't using unemployment statistics. I am using impact on local economy.


For example:

Mike and Dave are regulars at Steve's Bakery.

Mike gets fired, Dave gets unpaid by the government.

Both stop going to Steve's Bakery as a result.

This impacts Steve's Bakery's income.

Thus, Steve has to fire someone to maintain the profitability of the Bakery.

Now apply that example to every store Mike and Dave ever regular at.

And then Steve has to hire again, because Dave gets his money and can pay, and Mike likely gets a new job.

Steve doesn't know when that will happen. In that time his business is in limbo.

Most likely the story will end happily like you said. But beacuse this is amplified every store Mike and Dave went to and there is 20,999 more Mike stories and 799,999 Dave stories.

Some of those stories will have an unhappy ending. Especially if a town or city has multiple Mike and Dave stories.

[West Leas Oros 2]

Can we pull a France and bring the Gilets-Jaunes to the USA?

[Novus America]

And then Steve has to hire again, because Dave gets his money and can pay, and Mike likely gets a new job.

Steve doesn't know when that will happen. In that time his business is in limbo.

Most likely the story will end happily like you said. But beacuse this is amplified every store Mike and Dave went to and there is 20,999 more Mike stories and 799,999 Dave stories.

Some of those stories will have an unhappy ending. Especially if a town or city has multiple Mike and Dave stories.

The shutdown will have negative impacts.
Again nobody is denying that.

It has nothing to do with the thread though.

[Novus America]

Can we pull a France and bring the Gilets-Jaunes to the USA?

To protest our already below global average fuel costs for being too high?

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Neither. If people are not getting payed the reasons don't matter to the businesses they purchase goods or services from.


AT&T firing 7,000 people has the effect of the government shutdown, people not getting payed.

Will they get new jobs and in essence restart there income? Will the government shutdown end?

Hopefully yes and yes respectively.

But will it damage the local economy beacuse of this? Yes. And that has a ripple effect to nearly every business on the planet.

Of course AT&T laying people off will had some short term negative impacts.
Nobody is denying that.

And long term.

Some businesses will either be crippled or dead thanks to this.

[West Leas Oros 2]

Can we pull a France and bring the Gilets-Jaunes to the USA?

To protest our already below global average fuel costs for being too high?

I was think more about whats happening here, but hey, we can protest that too I guess....

[Ethel mermania]

Of course AT&T laying people off will had some short term negative impacts.
Nobody is denying that.

And long term.

Some businesses will either be crippled or dead thanks to this.

Yeah. And I cant get dsl service anymore the horror.,, the horror.


You objected to the telegraph taking away pony Express jobs I take it.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

It has nothing to do with the thread though.

The whole point in bringing that up was that while the net gain of 300,000 jobs is good, the lack of income going towards 821,000 people destroys the effect of the tax breaks.

[Novus America]

To protest our already below global average fuel costs for being too high?

I was think more about whats happening here, but hey, we can protest that too I guess....

So protesting just work the sake of it?

[Israeli Defense Force]

And long term.

Some businesses will either be crippled or dead thanks to this.

Yeah. And I cant get dsl service anymore the horror.,, the horror.


You objected to the telegraph taking away pony Express jobs I take it.

Either Herp has you blocked or they don't have a reply for what you're saying. It looks like they're ignoring you.

[West Leas Oros 2]

I was think more about whats happening here, but hey, we can protest that too I guess....

So protesting just work the sake of it?

I mean, there's plenty to protest about in America.

[Novus America]

It has nothing to do with the thread though.

The whole point in bringing that up was that while the net gain of 300,000 jobs is good, the lack of income going towards 821,000 people destroys the effect of the tax breaks.

But that does not make the tax breaks bad.

Yes the shutdown is bad, but it is not caused by the tax breaks or AT&T realizing POTS and DSL are obsolete.

[Luziyca]

Sause

When the GOP passed tax reform in 2017, the party justified its corporate tax cuts with claims that the reductions would boost US employment, wages, and the overall economy. The FCC similarly justified its repeal of net neutrality by arguing that the onerous regulation of wireless and wireline service was hampering innovation, imposing ruinous costs, and generally harming the telcos, ISPs, and cellular service providers in the United States.

Thus far, the corporations Ajit Pai and the Republican Party bent over backward to help haven’t exactly been returning the favor. GM plans to close plants and fire 14,000 people. Verizon has no plan to boost 5G investment, despite Pai’s claim that repealing net neutrality would lead to additional corporate network spending. Now AT&T is reportedly preparing to fire 7,000 people, despite having previously promised that tax breaks and freedom from burdensome regulation would actually create jobs.

What AT&T Said Then
On May 4, 2017, AT&T CEO Randall Stephenson gave an interview to CNBC declaring the importance of cutting taxes. “Lower taxes drives more investment, drives more hiring, drives greater wages,” Stephenson said on CNBC’s Squawk Box. “All of this fits together.”

Other choice quotes include: “If you can have a tax reduction of 35 percent down to, you pick your number, 25 or 20 percent — to think that wouldn’t cause additional investment is nonsensical. I know exactly what AT&T would do: We would invest more.”

Here’s a really good one:

“Every billion dollars in additional investment we make is 7,000 additional jobs we have to put on to put that capital into the ground or on cell towers and so forth,” Stephenson said. “And these are 7,000 jobs wearing hard hats, these are high-paying jobs with good benefits. The correlation is very, very tight. If we have to make that kind of hiring and do that kind of hiring, that drives productivity, which drives what? Wage growth.” (Emphasis added).

AT&T reported a $19B tax windfall in January of 2018, along with an additional $3B in cash that it claimed it would spend on network investments throughout 2018. Capital expenditures in 2017 totaled $21.6B. At the beginning of 2018, AT&T forecast capital expenditures of $25B.

What AT&T Says Now
We don’t know how much AT&T spent on capital expenditures for the entire year, but in Q3 2018 the company stated its estimated capex for FY2018 would be ~$22B. That’s on par with what it spent in 2017, with no increase associated with either the GOP tax bill or the $20B windfall.

In the memo (leaked to Motherboard and confirmed by AT&T), AT&T tries to dodge its own previous statements, claiming that its CEO had previously said that $1B in investment creates 7,000 jobs “across the broader economy.” But that’s not what Stephenson said.

In 2017, Stephenson claimed that the Trump tax cuts would result in AT&T boosting its investment levels. He knew exactly what AT&T would do: It would invest. That investment would create jobs, not “across the broader economy,” but for AT&T workers. Hard hat jobs, with great benefits and good pay. The kind of jobs Americans want. The kind of jobs a CEO would dangle in front of Americans to make them think supporting a giant tax cut and regulatory reduction for corporations was a good idea. The kind of jobs you talk about when you use a pronoun like “we,” which doesn’t mean “Other companies besides AT&T.”

AT&T has earned record profits for itself by shuttering call centers and offshoring workers, with an estimated 16,500 jobs lost since 2011. The Communication Workers of America estimate AT&T eliminated 10,800 positions in the last year alone.

The bonuses AT&T claimed were paid out as a result of the Trump tax cuts were actually negotiated beforehand with its unions and had absolutely nothing to do with the GOP tax bill. Despite the promise that net neutrality repeal and the tax cut would boost wireless investment, overall wireless capital expenditures are believed to have fallen in 2018. And this isn’t unique to AT&T — Verizon also claimed plans to boost its own investment levels before deciding not to.

Instead of creating 7,000 jobs with every additional $1B in network investment, AT&T will shed 7,000 jobs to further enrich its stockholders and pay for stock buybacks.

Personal Note
Sometimes, in a story like this one, someone will pop in and accuse me of political bias. While I won’t pretend to lack political opinions, the point here isn’t political. It’s ethical.

Put simply, I’m tired of being lied to. The tax cuts and net neutrality repeal were advertised, justified, and declared necessary because of the necessary and critical impact they would have on overall investment and infrastructure. None of it happened. No one is punished for it. The chairman of the FCC has produced no data at any point that actually justified his claim that net neutrality was a threat to broadband investment or had resulted in a reduction of it. (At least, none that stood up to factual analysis).

We live in a country where powerful heads of major multi-national companies with resources and wealth that rival that of some countries are allowed to blithely lie about their own intentions and the impact of laws that blatantly favor their own self-interests. Our politicians, instead of serving as guardians of the public good, fall over themselves to enable this nihilistic behavior. And everyone — including, all too often, members of the press — treats this as business as usual.

So, despite leeway from Trump's FCC and leeway from tax breaks thanks to the GOP, AT&T managed to fuck over working Americans.

I said that the corporate tax breaks wouldn't work, I said that repealing NN was a bad idea, but some people still defended both decisions beacuse of the poor oppressed billionaires.

Here we are, where a billion dollar tech company fucks over working people despite all the leeway the GOP and Libertarians give them.

Fucking corporations make me sick. I can only hope that should a general strike is called in the US, AT&T and it's ilk of greddy tech corporations get there stock price eviscerated.

What say you NSG?

Agreed.

They're going to stagnate/fire "unnecessary workers" no matter what, because when you are pretty much a monopoly, and a robot can do your job better than you, they won't give a flying shit about "innovating" or "caring about the workers."

Maybe we should more rigorously enforce the antitrust acts, and break every major conglomerate up left and right.

[Novus America]

Sause




So, despite leeway from Trump's FCC and leeway from tax breaks thanks to the GOP, AT&T managed to fuck over working Americans.

I said that the corporate tax breaks wouldn't work, I said that repealing NN was a bad idea, but some people still defended both decisions beacuse of the poor oppressed billionaires.

Here we are, where a billion dollar tech company fucks over working people despite all the leeway the GOP and Libertarians give them.

Fucking corporations make me sick. I can only hope that should a general strike is called in the US, AT&T and it's ilk of greddy tech corporations get there stock price eviscerated.

What say you NSG?

Agreed.

They're going to stagnate/fire "unnecessary workers" no matter what, because when you are pretty much a monopoly, and a robot can do your job better than you, they won't give a flying shit about "innovating" or "caring about the workers."

Maybe we should more rigorously enforce the antitrust acts, and break every major conglomerate up left and right.

The are not a monopoly. See, Verizon.

And POTS and DSL would still be obsolete.

Western Union no longer lays telephone cables nor operates stage coaches.

[Israeli Defense Force]

Western Union no longer lays telephone cables nor operates stage coaches.

Which is criminal to the people of Dead Flats, Montana. That stage coach service was the only thing bringing in a tourist each year.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Yeah. And I cant get dsl service anymore the horror.,, the horror.


You objected to the telegraph taking away pony Express jobs I take it.

Either Herp has you blocked or they don't have a reply for what you're saying. It looks like they're ignoring you.

Wasn't ignoring and not blocking.

Was just taking a break.

Sorry Ethel.

The whole point in bringing that up was that while the net gain of 300,000 jobs is good, the lack of income going towards 821,000 people destroys the effect of the tax breaks.

But that does not make the tax breaks bad.

Yes the shutdown is bad, but it is not caused by the tax breaks or AT&T realizing POTS and DSL are obsolete.

Never said it was caused by the tax breaks, only that the tax breaks were meant to prevent it.

By that I mean that AT&T could have moved those 7,000 people in to possibly new services they could develop to replace POTS and DSL.

[Novus America]

Either Herp has you blocked or they don't have a reply for what you're saying. It looks like they're ignoring you.

Wasn't ignoring and not blocking.

Was just taking a break.

Sorry Ethel.

But that does not make the tax breaks bad.

Yes the shutdown is bad, but it is not caused by the tax breaks or AT&T realizing POTS and DSL are obsolete.

Never said it was caused by the tax breaks, only that the tax breaks were meant to prevent it.

By that I mean that AT&T could have moved those 7,000 people in to possibly new services they could develop to replace POTS and DSL.

That is incorrect. The tax breaks were not created to prevent obsolete technologies from becoming obsolete nor prevent the layoff of all unneeded employees.

Well perhaps. But I guess they determined they no longer needed them.
They are not going to keep paying them based on speculation, especially if they do not have the needed skills.

Certainly it is likely they made some mistakes, but I am sure they do have staffing professionals who make these decisions based on data.