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by Hamidiye » Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:34 am
by Sycar » Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:28 pm
by Rhodevus » Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:49 pm
Rodrania wrote:Rhod, I f*cking love you, man. <3
Divergia wrote:The Canadian Polar-Potato-Moose-Cat has spoken!
Beiluxia wrote:Is it just me, or does your name keep getting better the more I see it?
by Sufokia » Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:13 am
by Mount Shavano » Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:38 pm
Sufokia wrote:OOC: I've been basing a lot of my dreadnought information on the development of Japanese (and by connection, British) capital ships. To OP, would it also be permitted to discuss the different styles of dreadnoughts and the advantages and disadvantages some nations' held over others?
Do I need "OOC" for this?
by The Biggles Syndicate » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:01 am
by The Atlantean Islands » Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:46 am
by Newne Carriebean7 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 11:42 am
Krugeristan wrote:This is Carrie you're referring to. I'm not going to expect him to do something sane anytime soon. He can take something as simple as a sandwich, and make me never look at sandwiches with a straight face ever again.
Former Carriebeanian president Carol Dartenby sentenced to 4 years hard labor for corruption and mismanagement of state property|Former Carriebeanian president Antrés Depuís sentenced to 3 years in prison for embezzling funds and corruption
by Mount Shavano » Sun Dec 16, 2018 2:42 pm
The Biggles Syndicate wrote:OOC:
Are dreadnoughts that are starships allowed, or are these only sea-based ones we're talking about?
by Otira » Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:59 pm
by Karpan » Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:54 am
by Mangahhan Super Region » Sun Dec 23, 2018 1:34 am
by Ederea » Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:50 pm
by Mount Shavano » Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:14 pm
Otira wrote:What national style of early (say 1906-1914) dreadnought is your favorite, Mt Shavano? Which do you think were the best? I've heard the Germans had better guns that the British, which is why they could mount smaller ones that could achieve roughly the same performance and thus also carry extra armour.
by Skanowka » Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:26 pm
by Newne Carriebean7 » Mon Dec 24, 2018 6:36 pm
Krugeristan wrote:This is Carrie you're referring to. I'm not going to expect him to do something sane anytime soon. He can take something as simple as a sandwich, and make me never look at sandwiches with a straight face ever again.
Former Carriebeanian president Carol Dartenby sentenced to 4 years hard labor for corruption and mismanagement of state property|Former Carriebeanian president Antrés Depuís sentenced to 3 years in prison for embezzling funds and corruption
by Imperium of The Huron » Mon Dec 24, 2018 10:49 pm
by Ederea » Tue Dec 25, 2018 12:15 am
by Greater Germany » Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:49 am
Mount Shavano wrote:In terms of favorite, the last set of German dreadnoughts and große kreuzers from that era are my choice - the König and Derfflinger classes. The German 12" did lose a bit of warhead size compared to the 13.5" on contemporary British ships, but kept up in armor penetration. They also made excellent use of the tonnage saved. König had the best protection of that generation of battleships and exceeded her design speed under combat conditions at Jutland.
Derfflinger and her relatives were unique among WWI and earlier capital ships in that they were able to produce cruiser speed with battleship quality guns and armor. They did give up a turret and some protection compared to König, so her armor was "only" equivalent to that of British battleships, but the design proved superior to the British & Japanese full-scale-guns-but-cruiser-armor approach.
In terms of best, I think the crown bounced around quite a bit. There were basically four generations.
For the first wave of dreadnoughts (Satsuma, Dreadnought, South Carolina, Nassau), designed in Japan, Britain, the United States, and Germany (although only completed in the last three) just after Tsushima, I feel that the Americans got the best value for their tonnage; their design was smaller but was the only one with superfiring turrets (the Americans had solved the problem of how to fire the upper turret without killing the crew of the lower turret in the late 1890s with the bizarre Virginia class), meaning they although they were 10%-15% smaller than the other designs they kept up in guns and armor and were only about 10% slower. The German Nassau was probably the most powerful ship, but the Germans built bigger and more expensive.
The second wave (Neptune, Delaware, Helgoland), happened pretty quick on the heels of the first. Once everyone saw what the others were doing, they modified their designs to beat perceived shortcomings. I think the American design is best in both efficiency and power; they built a ship to match the size and speed of the European ships, but with the superfiring problem solved they had a 25% heavier broadside than British and German designs and at best a minor deficit in protection.
The third wave of dreadnoughts (Orion, Wyoming, Kaiser, some of which were known as "super dreadnoughts", saw the Americans fall behind a bit. The new British ship, Orion, used an American style turret layout and a new 13.5" gun giving her superior firepower. The Germans retained the 12" gun but increased their armored belt to match the new British guns. Wyoming carried two more guns but did not increase either gun size or armor. I give Orion the edge because the Germans still had an inefficient "echelon" turret arrangement.
By the second set of super dreadnoughts (Iron Duke, New York, König), there's not much to choose between the competing designs. All three nations (and the French, and the Chileans, etc) had settled on five twin turrets in an AB-O-XY arrangement. The British and Americans had 13.5" or 14" guns and 12" belts, while the Germans reversed this. I pick the German design as the best since I think they got more in armor than they gave up in guns.
It's important to note that this analysis is probably slightly unfair to the British. They were "first to market" in all cases, so the American and German ships of each "generation" were entering service a few months to even a year or two behind the British equivalents and therefore should be expected to be slightly more modern.
by Mount Shavano » Mon Dec 31, 2018 11:02 am
Newne Carriebean7 wrote:Class Name:Zhackary Class Predreadnought battleship
Displacement (standard): 12,305 tons
Primary Armament (in inches):
4 X 10 inch main naval guns in two turrets fore and aft.
12X QF 3 inch guns with six positioned each on the port and starboard sides respectively
2 X 6 inch naval guns with both positioned opposite each other on either side before the secondary bridge in the rear
Maximum Armor Belt Thickness in inches: 7 inches at it's thickest location
Armor Layout (All-or-Nothing, Incremental, etc): Incremental
Powerplant Type (Turbines, Reciprocating, Expansion, Turbo-electric, Diesel, etc): Triple Expansion Steam engines
Power Source (Oil, Coal, Mixed, etc): Coal
Speed in knots:17 knots
Endurance in nautical miles: 995 nautical miles at 9 knots
Year in service:1880
Year last unit retired or sunk: 1902
Number of units: 7 (Zhackary I, Zhackary II, Sarah I, Fairy Anne, Alex II, Azhab, Harold I)
The Zhackary class battleships marked a revolution in Carriebeanian designs. Being influenced by a mixture of Russian and british era battleship building and having no experience upon her own, these ships were constructed in Russian ports under british supervision, then being delivered to the carriebeanian fleet throughout the 1880s,with the final ship being completed in 1894 after much delay.
Previously, Carriebeanian naval warships were either large turret ships or floating batteries of warships, with much of the last twenty years of steam naval design based upon Austrian ironclad frigates or Carriebeanian civil war ships of the line with armor slapped on the sides and steam engines installed in place of sails. The Zhackary Class was a radical alteration and design difference from the old models of ship building carriebean had grown accustomed towards. The belt, while tough in comparison to the 3 inch steel plating utilized in the ironed ships of the line, was still rather thin in certain areas, such as the magazine and underside, while tough in areas such as the machinery, bridge and armaments.
The lives of the ships were a mixed bag. All (except the still under construction Harold I) of them participated in the Serdian-Carriebeanian war, which was an abrupt wake up call to the Carriebeanian naval command, with the loss of The Azhab to heavy gunfire and the damaging of the Zhackary II during a collision. Poor Carriebeanian seamanship and expert Serdian gunnery further exasperated losses in the naval fights that did occur during the war. Friendly fire incidents also occurred, saved from the terrible accuracy of carriebeanian gunners,exemplified in an accidental firefight between Fairy Anne and Zhackary II, in which over 400 shells were reported to have been fired with just 18 hits being recorded on the 'enemy' (10 impacting the Fairy Anne and 8 impacting the Zhackary II) Carriebeanian vessels even accidentally shot at german passenger liners in the combat area, with serdian combat logs noting only 18 hits on serdian ships out of 1,051 shells fired, compared to 665 connecting impacts by serdian gunners out of 701 fired during the Battle off Leeward Island.
Poor construction of Carriebeanian vessels also played a role, with reports of pre-battle leaking and antiquated fire control systems in place, merely consistent of cannon crew sized teams, including the useless position of muzzle swabber with all the guns being breech loaded. There was also the problem of faulty ammunition, with cannon balls and mine rounds being stuffed into barrels, along with various family heirlooms and silverware from the galley, damaging the side armament with the mismatched ammunition. Carriebeanian vessels were also notorious for being horrific at navigation, with the collision between two battleships during the Leeward Island clash providing evidence of this claim, often having the captains and helmsman consistent with 18th century design of out in rear of the vessel, with serdian gunners zeroing in on the steerage section, often crippling the carriebeanian ships rather easily.
Class Name: Morzo class Predreadnought Battleships
Displacement (standard): 11,008 tons
Primary Armament (in inches):
3 X single turreted 10 inch naval guns
12 X 3.1 inch guns with six on port and starboard respectively
Maximum Armor Belt Thickness in inches: 2 inches
Armor Layout (All-or-Nothing, Incremental, etc): Incremental
Powerplant Type (Turbines, Reciprocating, Expansion, Turbo-electric, Diesel, etc): Turbine
Power Source (Oil, Coal, Mixed, etc): Wood
Speed in knots: 15 knots (top recorded speed) 10 knots (normal speed)
Endurance in nautical miles:1,065 miles at 9.5 knots
Year in service:1890
Year last unit retired or sunk:1923
Number of units: Morzo and Marley
Often considered the worst battleships in Carriebean's naval arsenal at the time. The Morzo class was drawn up within a few months and laid down the same time as a mild economic sneeze was occurring within the country. As a result, the designs were altered to make up for these shortcomings and due to a lack of coal because of the economic sneeze, the ships were switched to a wood burning turbines to compensate. The Armor, initially planned for a same belt of 6 inches akin to the Zhackary class, was cut three times it's proposed amount to just 2 thin little inches of armor around the belt and in the vital areas.
The wooden fed boilers would have preformed well, if it hadn't been for the rather shoddy construction of them and the placement of them next to the magazine and a thin sheet of steel between them less than a half inch thick. The ship was also notoriously sluggish for a battleship and turned rather horrifically. The ship was also designed with awkward V sections of raised steel protection for planned marines that would accompany the vessel, but the marines were scrapped and the V sections of steel were kept because of laziness in the design department.
The Morzo and Marley both were considered the ugliest ships in the fleet, and so sent off to watery graves during the Carriebeanian-Danish War of 1903-1904. Their performance against danish coastal defense ships was one of the only good things about the vessels, quickly squandered when up against modern german battleships at the start of the 1904-1905 Carriebeanian-German War. The 10 inch guns had a rather slow rate of fire of a round every 5 minutes, and given the aforementioned inaccuracy of Carriebeanian gunnery, it was mostly a waste of ammunition and brainpower to get these ships anywhere close to german warships.
Nonetheless, they attempted their best with what they had, and the Marley's captain gordon felix moore charged headlong into four german predreadnoughts, managing to score four hits with the 10 inch guns on their ships and eleven hits from the secondary batteries of cannons. Moore was awarded the Carriebeanian Order of the Blue Cross posthumously after his ship was impacted in the magazines by german gunnery. The Morzo would be in the war intercepting german merchant convoys during the war, holding a rather modest fifteen sunken ships by her skipper Lucas Norman Farr. The Morzo would go on to survive the war, being noted for firing the last shot of the Carriebeanian Amendment Revolution and being turned into a museum ship in 1924.
Class Name:Thames Class Predreadnought Battleships
Displacement (standard): 14,605 tons
Primary Armament (in inches):
2 X single 10 inch main guns
2 X twin 9 inch secondary batteries amidships
18 X 3.3 inch QF cannons (9 each on port and starboard)
Maximum Armor Belt Thickness in inches: 9 inches
Armor Layout (All-or-Nothing, Incremental, etc): Incremental
Powerplant Type (Turbines, Reciprocating, Expansion, Turbo-electric, Diesel, etc): Reciprocating
Power Source (Oil, Coal, Mixed, etc):Coal
Speed in knots:21 knots
Endurance in nautical miles: 2,031 miles at 17 knots
Year in service:1895
Year last unit retired or sunk: 1919
Number of units:5 (Thames, Marley, Piratei, Garther, and Schaltcher)
Hoping to learn from their mistakes of the Morzo class, Carriebeanian naval thinkers opted for a combination of 10 inch and 9 inch batteries while still keeping the singularity of the 10 inch rifles to reduce weight. The First ship was laid down just as the commissioning ceremony for the Morzo was occurring in 1890,taking five years to construct. New technologies were to be added and experimented with, such as coal replacing wooden fired boilers and thicker armor in more sensitive areas to avoid errors made in the Morzo and Zhackary class construction.
The Thames Class, while being built too late to fight in the Serdian Carriebean war, proved their worth and expense in the Carriebean Anglo-War against British Predreadnought squadron on the first of August 1904, where a British Predreadnought was sunk thanks to gradually improving Carriebeanian morale and better ammunition available, along with more advanced techniques and practices for warfare being utilized. Carriebeanian gunnery crews were trained for longer hours and actually learned how to shoot, preforming admirably under the circumstances of the engagements.
Despite this, the thicker armor proved to be not as important, with the sinking of the Marley to british laid mines during the siege of Tortuga in 1903. Carriebeanian gunnery actually was shockingly improving, with the scoring of more than three dozen hits on British warships. However, due to political machinations, these ships would stay in port during the ill-fated sortie to Denmark, instead having the Queen opting for the worse Morzo class to be sent up north as part of the fleet to escort ground troops.
Greater Germany wrote:To piggyback off your post, I've been reading up some on German battleships and what do you think they would have looked like in post-WW1 High Seas Fleet where Germany won? I'd like to add some battleships to this thread but I'm not entirely sure what direction they might have taken. My Wien design was a shot in the dark.
by The Green Union » Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:44 pm
by Mount Shavano » Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:27 pm
by Aldina » Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:53 pm
by Mount Shavano » Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:20 pm
Aldina wrote:(If you can guess which never-built class of battleships I based her on, you get a cookie.)
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