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LWDT VI: Kropotkin's Bread Dead Redemption.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Which Form of Leftism is The Best?

Left-Libertarianism
125
55%
Yes
66
29%
Left-Authoritarianism
37
16%
 
Total votes : 228

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Democratic Communist Federation
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5297
Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:06 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:Is it the responsibility of western powers to overthrow Assad? If not, we leave them to authoritarianism. If so, we embrace "imperialism".
I care about their liberties insofar as they're willing to fight for them.


I am a communist internationalist. As I see it, there is no us and them. We are all responsible for one another. Imperialism, or hegemony, is a contradiction to communist internationalism.
Ššālōm ʿălēyəḵẹm, Mōšẹh ʾẠhărōn hạ•Lēwiy bẹn Hẹʿrəšẹʿl (Hebrew/Yiddish, מֹשֶׁה אַהֲרֹן הַלֵוִי בֶּן הֶערְשֶׁעל)
third campismLibertarian Marxist Social Fictioncritical realismAntifaDialectical metaRealism ☝️ The
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You are welcome as an embassy of Antifa Dialectical metaRealism. Our ♥️ ḏik°r
(Arabic, ذِكْر. remembrance): Yā Bahāˁ ʾal•⫯Ab°haỳ, wa•yā ʿAliyy ʾal•⫯Aʿ°laỳ! (Arabic, !يَا بَهَاء لأَبْهَى ، وَيَا عَلِيّ الأَعْلَى)
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Northern Davincia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16960
Founded: Jun 10, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Northern Davincia » Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:18 pm

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
Northern Davincia wrote:Is it the responsibility of western powers to overthrow Assad? If not, we leave them to authoritarianism. If so, we embrace "imperialism".
I care about their liberties insofar as they're willing to fight for them.


I am a communist internationalist. As I see it, there is no us and them. We are all responsible for one another. Imperialism, or hegemony, is a contradiction to communist internationalism.

If we are all responsible for one another, why not use imperialism to "liberate" Syrians from Assad?
I am of the opinion that it's not our responsibility, because it doesn't affect us.
Last edited by Northern Davincia on Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hoppean Libertarian, Acolyte of von Mises, Protector of Our Sacred Liberties
Economic Left/Right: 9.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.05
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

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Reikoku
Senator
 
Posts: 3645
Founded: Apr 01, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Reikoku » Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:26 pm

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
Reikoku wrote:Imperialism isn't destroying the world.


Tell that to the people in Syria or Yemen.


Syria and Yemen are two small authoritarian countries. Neither of them are the world.

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Ryukyu
Attaché
 
Posts: 82
Founded: Oct 23, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Ryukyu » Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:09 pm

The Liberated Territories wrote:Reminder that Bush is loved by the Kurds

really proof
sfs georgetown ic wiki

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The Liberated Territories
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11859
Founded: Dec 03, 2013
Capitalizt

Postby The Liberated Territories » Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:13 pm

Ryukyu wrote:
The Liberated Territories wrote:Reminder that Bush is loved by the Kurds

really proof


https://www.foxnews.com/world/love-amer ... gs-us-bush
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/exm5 ... merica-724
Left Wing Market Anarchism

Yes, I am back(ish)

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Kubra
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17229
Founded: Apr 15, 2006
Father Knows Best State

Postby Kubra » Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:25 pm

The Liberated Territories wrote:Reminder that Bush is loved by the Kurds
No surprise, really. Ideology is ideology, but this is the guy who humiliated Saddam.
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
Comrade J. Posadas

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Northern Davincia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16960
Founded: Jun 10, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Northern Davincia » Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:08 pm


It brings a tear to my eye. My favoring of an independent Kurdistan is much higher.
Hoppean Libertarian, Acolyte of von Mises, Protector of Our Sacred Liberties
Economic Left/Right: 9.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.05
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

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The National Salvation Front for Russia
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 490
Founded: Nov 19, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby The National Salvation Front for Russia » Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:34 pm

I've come to the radical and completely new conclusion that banning the popularisation and spreading of Nazi/Fascist propaganda is something good, not bad.
Russian Nationalist
Christian Democrat & Regionalist
Мы спасeм Россию!

Cлужить России - To Serve Russia
I support the Community for Democracy and Rights of Nations

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Western Vale Confederacy
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9211
Founded: Nov 09, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Western Vale Confederacy » Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:08 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:

It brings a tear to my eye. My favoring of an independent Kurdistan is much higher.


The Kurds are quite the resilient bunch.

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Fahran
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 22562
Founded: Nov 13, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Fahran » Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:04 am

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:IMO, imperialism and the U.S. have, sadly, become almost indistinguishable. As autonomist Marxists say, the U.S. is the Empire.

Setting up independent republics is not peak imperialism.

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Luminesa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 61266
Founded: Dec 09, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Luminesa » Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:24 am

The National Salvation Front for Russia wrote:I've come to the radical and completely new conclusion that banning the popularisation and spreading of Nazi/Fascist propaganda is something good, not bad.

Not sure if that’s a new conclusion, actually.
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The National Salvation Front for Russia
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 490
Founded: Nov 19, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby The National Salvation Front for Russia » Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:36 am

Luminesa wrote:
The National Salvation Front for Russia wrote:I've come to the radical and completely new conclusion that banning the popularisation and spreading of Nazi/Fascist propaganda is something good, not bad.

Not sure if that’s a new conclusion, actually.

It's not, I was being sarcastic. Although I support any measure to throw Nazis out of political discourse as good and decent.
Russian Nationalist
Christian Democrat & Regionalist
Мы спасeм Россию!

Cлужить России - To Serve Russia
I support the Community for Democracy and Rights of Nations

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Democratic Communist Federation
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5297
Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:00 am

Northern Davincia wrote:If we are all responsible for one another, why not use imperialism to "liberate" Syrians from Assad?
I am of the opinion that it's not our responsibility, because it doesn't affect us.


We have no world government, which I would like to see, so who is the we that would do that? I certainly would not trust the U.S. in matters of international affairs.
Ššālōm ʿălēyəḵẹm, Mōšẹh ʾẠhărōn hạ•Lēwiy bẹn Hẹʿrəšẹʿl (Hebrew/Yiddish, מֹשֶׁה אַהֲרֹן הַלֵוִי בֶּן הֶערְשֶׁעל)
third campismLibertarian Marxist Social Fictioncritical realismAntifaDialectical metaRealism ☝️ The
MarkFoster.NETwork
You are welcome as an embassy of Antifa Dialectical metaRealism. Our ♥️ ḏik°r
(Arabic, ذِكْر. remembrance): Yā Bahāˁ ʾal•⫯Ab°haỳ, wa•yā ʿAliyy ʾal•⫯Aʿ°laỳ! (Arabic, !يَا بَهَاء لأَبْهَى ، وَيَا عَلِيّ الأَعْلَى)
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Democratic Communist Federation
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5297
Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:02 am

Reikoku wrote:Syria and Yemen are two small authoritarian countries. Neither of them are the world.


The world is made [edit: up] of countries of all sorts. If you are in Syria or Yemen, that is your world. I could care less about governments. I care about the people in those societies.
Last edited by Democratic Communist Federation on Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ššālōm ʿălēyəḵẹm, Mōšẹh ʾẠhărōn hạ•Lēwiy bẹn Hẹʿrəšẹʿl (Hebrew/Yiddish, מֹשֶׁה אַהֲרֹן הַלֵוִי בֶּן הֶערְשֶׁעל)
third campismLibertarian Marxist Social Fictioncritical realismAntifaDialectical metaRealism ☝️ The
MarkFoster.NETwork
You are welcome as an embassy of Antifa Dialectical metaRealism. Our ♥️ ḏik°r
(Arabic, ذِكْر. remembrance): Yā Bahāˁ ʾal•⫯Ab°haỳ, wa•yā ʿAliyy ʾal•⫯Aʿ°laỳ! (Arabic, !يَا بَهَاء لأَبْهَى ، وَيَا عَلِيّ الأَعْلَى)
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Democratic Communist Federation
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5297
Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:03 am

The National Salvation Front for Russia wrote:I've come to the radical and completely new conclusion that banning the popularisation and spreading of Nazi/Fascist propaganda is something good, not bad.


Banning rarely works with most things. They just go underground. It is better, IMO, to simply keep a close eye on them.
Ššālōm ʿălēyəḵẹm, Mōšẹh ʾẠhărōn hạ•Lēwiy bẹn Hẹʿrəšẹʿl (Hebrew/Yiddish, מֹשֶׁה אַהֲרֹן הַלֵוִי בֶּן הֶערְשֶׁעל)
third campismLibertarian Marxist Social Fictioncritical realismAntifaDialectical metaRealism ☝️ The
MarkFoster.NETwork
You are welcome as an embassy of Antifa Dialectical metaRealism. Our ♥️ ḏik°r
(Arabic, ذِكْر. remembrance): Yā Bahāˁ ʾal•⫯Ab°haỳ, wa•yā ʿAliyy ʾal•⫯Aʿ°laỳ! (Arabic, !يَا بَهَاء لأَبْهَى ، وَيَا عَلِيّ الأَعْلَى)
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Democratic Communist Federation
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5297
Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:17 am

Fahran wrote:Setting up independent republics is not peak imperialism.


It depends on which country or entity is doing it and their motivations.
Ššālōm ʿălēyəḵẹm, Mōšẹh ʾẠhărōn hạ•Lēwiy bẹn Hẹʿrəšẹʿl (Hebrew/Yiddish, מֹשֶׁה אַהֲרֹן הַלֵוִי בֶּן הֶערְשֶׁעל)
third campismLibertarian Marxist Social Fictioncritical realismAntifaDialectical metaRealism ☝️ The
MarkFoster.NETwork
You are welcome as an embassy of Antifa Dialectical metaRealism. Our ♥️ ḏik°r
(Arabic, ذِكْر. remembrance): Yā Bahāˁ ʾal•⫯Ab°haỳ, wa•yā ʿAliyy ʾal•⫯Aʿ°laỳ! (Arabic, !يَا بَهَاء لأَبْهَى ، وَيَا عَلِيّ الأَعْلَى)
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[color=#ff0000]Member,[/color] [url=https://www.nationstates.net/nation=democratic_communist_federation/detail=factbook/id=870177][color=#ff0000][u]Antifa Dialectical metaRealism[/u][/color][/url]

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Dumb Ideologies
Post Czar
 
Posts: 46028
Founded: Sep 30, 2007
Mother Knows Best State

Postby Dumb Ideologies » Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:37 am

The National Salvation Front for Russia wrote:I've come to the radical and completely new conclusion that banning the popularisation and spreading of Nazi/Fascist propaganda is something good, not bad.


Depends what you mean by "Nazi/fascist" and "spreading propaganda" because the former term is massively over/misused by the internationalist left and the latter has regularly been used by authoritarians across the spectrum as a euphemism for criminalising groups they don't like for merely existing or pursuing non-dangerous individuals for reasonably articulating their views.
Last edited by Dumb Ideologies on Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
Are these "human rights" in the room with us right now?
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Mardla
Minister
 
Posts: 2465
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Mardla » Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:17 am

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
Mardla wrote:Just pretend for a moment it's someone who drove at a crowd of Nazis because they were closed in and felt threatened.

That's not what happened, and it was clearly premeditated, as he posted on social media about his desire to kill people in the crowd.

No, of course, it's not what happened, the politics were different. Fact is, if it were a black man driving into white nationalists and felt threatened, premeditated murder would not seem like a correct charge.

Premeditated would suggest he went there with the intention of doing it and planned it up until the incident. That he was prepared to do it, and that he backed the car up, means he is clearly culpable for multiple counts of ADW and vehicular manslaughter.

As a traditionalist, I'd just as soon he get strung up, but I've seen someone convicted for ADW and given two years for stabbing someone with a steak knife repeatedly (the guy survived). If we're going by the way things tend to be enforced, politics played a big role in the charges.
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Valrifell
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31063
Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Valrifell » Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:43 am

Northern Davincia wrote:
Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
I have no idea of what the means, but if it makes you happy, go for it. I feel no ire for anyone. I do, however, despise certain positions.

What is preferable, revolution or reform?


We can romanticize the Revolution later and it gets things done in a timely pace.

The only downside is the near-inevitable temporary total collapse of civil order, but you give and you take.
Last edited by Valrifell on Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
HAVING AN ALL CAPS SIG MAKES ME FEEL SMART

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Mardla
Minister
 
Posts: 2465
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Mardla » Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:36 am

The National Salvation Front for Russia wrote:I've come to the radical and completely new conclusion that banning the popularisation and spreading of Nazi/Fascist propaganda is something good, not bad.

Hitlerites are politically irrelevant, so I don't see the point. If they weren't, that would be another story.
American Orthodox: one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
Jesus is Allah ن
Burkean conservative
Homophobic
Anti-feminist sexist
♂Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know men and women aren't the same.♀

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Reikoku
Senator
 
Posts: 3645
Founded: Apr 01, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Reikoku » Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:38 am

Mardla wrote:
The National Salvation Front for Russia wrote:I've come to the radical and completely new conclusion that banning the popularisation and spreading of Nazi/Fascist propaganda is something good, not bad.

Hitlerites are politically irrelevant, so I don't see the point. If they weren't, that would be another story.


Better to nip it in the bud before it grows.

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Mardla
Minister
 
Posts: 2465
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Mardla » Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:41 am

Reikoku wrote:
Mardla wrote:Hitlerites are politically irrelevant, so I don't see the point. If they weren't, that would be another story.


Better to nip it in the bud before it grows.

Hitlerites aren't even a bud. Socialists are a bud.
American Orthodox: one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
Jesus is Allah ن
Burkean conservative
Homophobic
Anti-feminist sexist
♂Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know men and women aren't the same.♀

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Mardla
Minister
 
Posts: 2465
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Mardla » Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:45 am

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:
Reikoku wrote:Syria and Yemen are two small authoritarian countries. Neither of them are the world.


The world is made [edit: up] of countries of all sorts. If you are in Syria or Yemen, that is your world. I could care less about governments. I care about the people in those societies.

Should we send weapons to the yellow vests?
American Orthodox: one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
Jesus is Allah ن
Burkean conservative
Homophobic
Anti-feminist sexist
♂Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know men and women aren't the same.♀

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Genivaria
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 69943
Founded: Mar 29, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Genivaria » Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:18 am

Mardla wrote:
Reikoku wrote:
Better to nip it in the bud before it grows.

Hitlerites aren't even a bud. Socialists are a bud.

A Nazi backed President is currently in office, clearly it's the peaceful reformist socialists who are the problem. :roll:

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Washington Resistance Army
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 54807
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:22 am

Genivaria wrote:
Mardla wrote:Hitlerites aren't even a bud. Socialists are a bud.

A Nazi backed President is currently in office, clearly it's the peaceful reformist socialists who are the problem. :roll:


Nazis have been endorsing presidential candidates since Rockwell brought the ideology back. It's pretty meaningless to just throw that out like it means something.
Hellenic Polytheist, Socialist

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