Osiris | Danburg Seized!

[Altmoras]

I feel like we've been down this road before. How long will the outrage at the NPO last for this time?

I give it 12 weeks. Once the first wave of uni midterms hits next semester everyone is going to have better things to do.

[Cormactopia Prime]

I feel like we've been down this road before. How long will the outrage at the NPO last for this time?

It's interesting to me that some of the people who claim to be defenders, like yourself and Roavin, are so nonchalant about this. I wonder what the NPO has to do that would have you folks not going for the "exaggerated yawn and slightly too emphatic meh" approach.

For as much as some taunted the IJCC for the "Defender-Francoist" stuff, there seems to be a little more truth to it than I think most realized.

And before anyone jumps in with this straw man: Yes, I know, #NotAllDefenders. But this behavior even from just a few is disturbing.

[Glen-Rhodes]

I think there’s a level of non-chalance with some people because this is not unique to the NPO, but the response isn’t quite the same as it’s been for others. Osiris was all too eager to go along with Adytus, after all. And the NPO isn’t the only one who’s infiltrated regions before, yet there hasn’t exactly been this level of outrage calling for, say, Empire to be banned everywhere.

[Cormactopia Prime]

I think there’s a level of non-chalance with some people because this is not unique to the NPO, but the response isn’t quite the same as it’s been for others. Osiris was all too eager to go along with Adytus, after all. And the NPO isn’t the only one who’s infiltrated regions before, yet there hasn’t exactly been this level of outrage calling for, say, Empire to be banned everywhere.

Are you even listening to yourself? "Osiris was all too eager to go along with Adytus." You're talking about Feux, who until being outed was a Senator of the New Pacific Order, even though they knew he had been Adytus and knew what he did. You still want to blame Osiris for "going along with Adytus," but you don't want to blame Adytus -- which is to say, Feux -- and the region that actually produced him. Your hypocrisy is laughable.

In regard to your whataboutism, next time Empire infiltrates regions under pseudonymous alternate personas, let me know. I'll condemn them with you.

It's too bad when it's Osiris and TSP's then-ally, Lazarus, that are infiltrated, and your ally doing the infiltrating, you can't muster any criticism.

[Armaros]

I feel like we've been down this road before. How long will the outrage at the NPO last for this time?

It's interesting to me that some of the people who claim to be defenders, like yourself and Roavin, are so nonchalant about this. I wonder what the NPO has to do that would have you folks not going for the "exaggerated yawn and slightly too emphatic meh" approach.

For as much as some taunted the IJCC for the "Defender-Francoist" stuff, there seems to be a little more truth to it than I think most realized.

And before anyone jumps in with this straw man: Yes, I know, #NotAllDefenders. But this behavior even from just a few is disturbing.

Seeing how Roavin reacted to the Wolfist coup, you'd think he'd react similarly to an attempt by the NPO to coup...

[Cormactopia Prime]

It's interesting to me that some of the people who claim to be defenders, like yourself and Roavin, are so nonchalant about this. I wonder what the NPO has to do that would have you folks not going for the "exaggerated yawn and slightly too emphatic meh" approach.

For as much as some taunted the IJCC for the "Defender-Francoist" stuff, there seems to be a little more truth to it than I think most realized.

And before anyone jumps in with this straw man: Yes, I know, #NotAllDefenders. But this behavior even from just a few is disturbing.

Seeing how Roavin reacted to the Wolfist coup, you'd think he'd react similarly to an attempt by the NPO to coup...

This is nothing new. Most defenders supported the NPO when they purged innocent citizens from Lazarus, established the dictatorial People's Republic of Lazarus, and enrolled Lazarus in the Founderless Regions Alliance as well. If anything, at least there are fewer defenders supporting the NPO now than there were then. But people like Roavin, Consular, and Glen-Rhodes are keeping up the tradition of selling out defender principles to maintain an unholy alliance with the NPO. You see, as long as they can get a few more people to liberate TBH's raids, who cares about the sovereignty of Osiris and Lazarus?

At some point the defenders supporting the NPO -- especially those in the South Pacific -- are going to have to be held as accountable as the NPO itself.

[Drop Your Pants]

At some point the defenders supporting the NPO -- especially those in the South Pacific -- are going to have to be held as accountable as the NPO itself.

Where do I fall then since i'm a defender in NPO

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Seeing how Roavin reacted to the Wolfist coup, you'd think he'd react similarly to an attempt by the NPO to coup...

This is nothing new. Most defenders supported the NPO when they purged innocent citizens from Lazarus, established the dictatorial People's Republic of Lazarus, and enrolled Lazarus in the Founderless Regions Alliance as well. If anything, at least there are fewer defenders supporting the NPO now than there were then. But people like Roavin, Consular, and Glen-Rhodes are keeping up the tradition of selling out defender principles to maintain an unholy alliance with the NPO. You see, as long as they can get a few more people to liberate TBH's raids, who cares about the sovereignty of Osiris and Lazarus?

At some point the defenders supporting the NPO -- especially those in the South Pacific -- are going to have to be held as accountable as the NPO itself.

Sadly, it appears that they know on which side their bread is buttered. The fact that said butter is turning more and more rancid by the day hasn't clicked for them yet.

[Cormactopia Prime]

At some point the defenders supporting the NPO -- especially those in the South Pacific -- are going to have to be held as accountable as the NPO itself.

Where do I fall then since i'm a defender in NPO

That you're still in the NPO after exposure of Task Force Lazarus is pretty mind blowing. Look what they deliberately did to your longtime home.

[Drop Your Pants]

That you're still in the NPO after exposure of Task Force Lazarus is pretty mind blowing. Look what they deliberately did to your longtime home.

Hadn't read that yet, nice read. Wouldn't mind seeing the full logs sometime. I think I was out of there already though so the past doesn't phase me much.

[Glen-Rhodes]

I think there’s a level of non-chalance with some people because this is not unique to the NPO, but the response isn’t quite the same as it’s been for others. Osiris was all too eager to go along with Adytus, after all. And the NPO isn’t the only one who’s infiltrated regions before, yet there hasn’t exactly been this level of outrage calling for, say, Empire to be banned everywhere.

Are you even listening to yourself? "Osiris was all too eager to go along with Adytus." You're talking about Feux, who until being outed was a Senator of the New Pacific Order, even though they knew he had been Adytus and knew what he did. You still want to blame Osiris for "going along with Adytus," but you don't want to blame Adytus -- which is to say, Feux -- and the region that actually produced him. Your hypocrisy is laughable.

I haven’t said anything about what I think of this whole saga, besides pointing out that this isn’t behavior unique to the NPO, but the response seems to be.

If you want my opinion, Feux has never been particularly trustworthy, and the revelations that he was Adytus only solidify that. I thought he should be banned, and the NPO ended up doing just that. (Not per my request, for the record).

The truth of the matter is, though, that the reason I find the Adytus reveal to be so damning is not because of the infiltration, but because Adytus was a serious threat to TSP. Osiris did listen to him and did entertain his TSP infiltration plans and did keep him in power when those plans got leaked. So forgive me for thinking that what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. Osiris is no stranger to infiltration. Neither are a handful of other GCRs and GP groups. NPO just seems to have been the best at it so far.

By the way, Cormac, you played *the* pivotal role in TSP not taking action against Osiris following Adytus leaks... when it was known that he was a member of the Rahl/Empire clan. So spare me the “when TSP is threatened with infiltration, I’ll rally” BS.

[Cormactopia Prime]

<snip>

Whatever Glen. I have no interest in further engaging with your whataboutism. If this is what you need to do to justify trying to keep the unholy alliance between the NPO and TSP because you somehow perversely believe it furthers defender interests, you do that. I hope TSP sees through it though.

When -- not if, but when -- the NPO screws you over too, don't say you weren't warned. Every time they do something like this, it's a warning for the future. And every time, there is always someone who just won't heed the warning. I guess you, Roavin, et al. are those people this time. What a shame.

[Unibot III]

they purged innocent citizens from Lazarus

They 'purged' NES. It wasn't exactly the Boston Massacre, or I suppose in a way it was. *looks blankly and self-quizzical*

The PRL was an internal decision and a change of direction, it wasn't even extra-constitutional. And the "dictatorial" PRL was still, at the end of the day, more democratic than both Lazarus and Osiris today. I mean if you're going to go around accusing regions of being autocratic, I think you should probably start by ensuring your own regions are, in fact, democracies. The cold war era rhetoric regarding the PRL was so stupid because imperialists spent all of their time accusing the PRL of being dictatorial and the PRL spent all of its time reassuring everyone it was still dictatorial.

The Wolfist coup was a very different experience and met pretty much every standard condition of an occupation, including foreign ties, extensive native opposition, and limited successive administration. I don't think it's fair to compare the two administrations.

And no I don't know why some defenders aren't upset that NPO was, behind-their-backs, involved in trying to take over Lazarus again and likely/maybe/probably undermined their liberation efforts and were, inadvertently responsible for the civil war altogether. I mean at this point what does NPO have to do to lose its treaty with TSP? Give their daughter herpes? They've already couped them. That's usually a no-no in diplomacyland.

[Onderkelkia]

For as much as some taunted the IJCC for the "Defender-Francoist" stuff, there seems to be a little more truth to it than I think most realized.

And before anyone jumps in with this straw man: Yes, I know, #NotAllDefenders. But this behavior even from just a few is disturbing.

It is encouraging to see that this is being widely recognised in light of the evidence available.

They 'purged' NES. It wasn't exactly the Boston Massacre, or I suppose in a way it was. *looks blankly and self-quizzical*

The PRL was an internal decision and a change of direction, it wasn't even extra-constitutional.

They purged Viktoria Gryfynn, Charles Cerebella and Apollo as well as North East Somerset in order to appear to obtain the necessary majority in the Emerald Council to turn the region into a Defender-Francoist dictatorship, representing a total transformation of Lazarus from its pre-PRL origins.

It was not an "internal decision", but something announced to the world by the New Pacific Order.

It was "extra-constitutional". Mandate 7 required a 3/4 majority to remove Emerald Council members, which was not attained once the ejected members are considered. No vote was held prior to the removal of the members concerned. It was an extra-constitutional action announced by a foreign power.

From the FRA and the UDL in 2013, to The South Pacific in 2017, the extent of defender collaboration with NPO subversion in Lazarus is striking.

One can only hope that The South Pacific has the wisdom to learn the lesson about working with the NPO.

[Unibot III]

From the FRA and the UDL in 2013, to The South Pacific in 2017, the extent of defender collaboration with NPO subversion in Lazarus is striking.

As opposed to imperialist activity in Lazarus which is presumably, startling?

[Onderkelkia]

From the FRA and the UDL in 2013, to The South Pacific in 2017, the extent of defender collaboration with NPO subversion in Lazarus is striking.

As opposed to imperialist activity in Lazarus which is presumably, startling?

If you are referring to the delegacy of Viktoria Gryfynn, she was a loyal native of Lazarus who did nothing to alter its long-term trajectory as a neutral democracy. It was Feux and Harmoneia who did that in service of the New Pacific Order and the defender world. Her only crime was to resist the NPO takeover - in relation to which she even sought the assistance of defenders for in the UDL, only for this to ultimately be thrown back in her face.

If you are referring to Balder's intervention to support the Undead Dominion and later the Khanate, then Balder intervened firstly to resist the defender-NPO axis, which the logs revealed confirm was in fact plotting a coup of Lazarus. Subsequently, Balder merely upheld its commitments to a treaty partner.

The Lazarus delegacy of Viktoria Gryfynn was not imperialist and Balder is not an imperialist region.

Even when we were allied to The Pacific in GCR Sovereignty Accords, Balder never rendered it any assistance in subverting Lazarus. We opposed its actions.

[Unibot III]

As opposed to imperialist activity in Lazarus which is presumably, startling?

If you are referring to the delegacy of Viktoria Gryfynn, she was a loyal native of Lazarus who did nothing to alter its long-term trajectory as a neutral democracy. It was Feux and Harmoneia who did that in service of the New Pacific Order and the defender world. Her only crime was to resist the NPO takeover - in relation to which she even sought the assistance of defenders for in the UDL, only for this to ultimately be thrown back in her face.

If you are referring to Balder's intervention to support the Undead Dominion and later the Khanate, then Balder intervened firstly to resist the defender-NPO axis, which the logs revealed confirm was in fact plotting a coup of Lazarus. Subsequently, Balder merely upheld its commitments to a treaty partner.

The Lazarus delegacy of Viktoria Gryfynn was not imperialist and Balder is not an imperialist region.

Even when we were allied to The Pacific in GCR Sovereignty Accords, Balder never rendered it any assistance in subverting Lazarus. We opposed its actions.

- The Emerald Council was packed with imperialists. Lazarus was the original Balder. Just as inactive, just as compromised.

- Balder is most certainly an imperialist region, regardless of (current) self-identification. Arguing otherwise is like arguing TRR was a non-defender region prior to 2014. It defies objectivity.

- The head monarch of TNI was most certainly, an imperialist.

- No, the UDL was not going to coup Lazarus for you. Get out of 'ere!

- You supported the UDoL because you wanted a share of the power in post-coup Lazarus.

Frankly, you proudly identify as an imperialist and therefore shouldn't be as uncomfortable as you are with admitting you wanted Lazarus all for yourself. This whole coquettish, school-girl thing got boring in 2012 - and at this point it's exhausting. It's like me, a defender, hiding that I want to defend regions. I mean if you're going to be an imperialist, own it. Get in there. I know you've got it in you, old boy.

[Onderkelkia]

- The Emerald Council was packed with imperialists. Lazarus was the original Balder. Just as inactive, just as compromised.

- Balder is most certainly an imperialist region, regardless of (current) self-identification. Arguing otherwise is like arguing TRR was a non-defender region prior to 2014. It defies objectivity.

- The head monarch of TNI was most certainly, an imperialist.

The Emerald Council was not "packed with imperialists". It had three members - Viktoria Grfynn, Charles Cerebella and North East Somerset - who were also members of TNI and the LKE, but dual citizenship of this kind is hardly uncommon. There were more defenders in Lazarus than there were "imperialists".

There were several significant distinctions between Balder and pre-PRL Lazarus. The latter, as you have pointed out, was allied to The Rejected Realms. It made no significant policy moves in what might be described as an Independent direction. It was effectively neutral or non-aligned in character.

Gryfynn was certainly a leading imperialist as the Monarch of The New Inquisition. At no time did she let that affect her policies in Lazarus in any way. Nothing about her delegacy of Lazarus moved Lazarus is an imperialist direction. Instead, she studiously maintained Lazarus neutrality.

- No, the UDL was not going to coup Lazarus for you. Get out of 'ere!

You were asked to oppose the coup of Lazarus; not support it. The UDL was asked to help the longest-serving delegate of Lazarus in game-recorded history oppose Feux, who was planning a coup in concert with his colleagues in the New Pacific Order. Feux planned a coup with the NPO and then carried it out.

Gryfynn recognised that and foolishly thought the UDL might be interested in opposing it. Instead, you helped the people performing the coup.

- You supported the UDoL because you wanted a share of the power in post-coup Lazarus.

Balder supported the Undead Dominion because we recognised the twin threats of the New Pacific Order and the defender world, just as in 2013.

Naturally, we'd prefer to have better relations with a region than not, but the Undead Dominion offered no power for Balder. Do you think we expected Evil Wolf, Lamb Stone or Funkadelia to have any interest in offering a stake in Lazarus's governance to Balder? Of course not. Nothing in any of their histories suggested any favourable disposition to Balder or our sphere more generally; indeed, the opposite was true in each case. Supporting the Undead Dominion merely offered a chance to oppose Defender-Francoist domination of Lazarus, which was a real threat and just as insidious as it had been four years prior.

---

I am not going to continue this conversation any further in Osiris's embassy thread. Suffice to say, the record of the defender world in supporting NPO subversion of Lazarus and more generally is shameful. The South Pacific should reflect on its actions and its relationship with Pergamon and The Pacific.

[Yokiria]

I remember when Defender-Francoist was an absurd concept, to the point of becoming a Gameplay meme. The fact that the most defender-leaning Feeder in the game a pillar of its regional government bending over backwards to avoid holding the Francoists accountable, as well a prominent defender-turned-Pacifican easily overlooking their beloved former homes' destabilization by the Francoists, makes me think the absurd concept of Defender-Francoism may not have been so absurd after all.

[Altinsane]

Having received no reply or acknowledgement whatsoever from an unrepentant NPO save the propagandization of our previous statement by former Consul Pergamon in a call to arms and a categorization as "the enemy" in Pergamon's resignation speech, wherein he left NPO with one final order to Avenge him, Osiris has run out of patience.

What we asked for was an answer for those guilty of harming ourselves and our fellow GCRs and just some measure of honesty and humility from NPO in the face of all the dangers they have put us in and all the damage they've caused our regions. What we received instead was silence from NPO's Emperor, a new barrage of insults and accusations from Pergamon, layered attempts to cover up the near constant stream of new evidence arriving before us of NPO's misdeeds elsewhere, excuses on why it was okay for them to hide the identities of Gamewide unwelcome players hiding in our communities, and an overall lack of remorse for any of the actions that they've taken here. No actions performed by Pergamon or any member of the Senate has been condemned by any Pacifican, except in the banjecting of Feux and AMOM by Pergamon himself not for their infiltration and subversion of our homes, but because they didn't follow his orders in a way that "pleased" him. Even in Pergamon's resignation, he apologizes for nothing save the harm he causes NPO by leaving it and tasks them with making us pay for his departure. "Avenge me" begins and ends his statement. I have no doubt that they will try. This only unnerves me further.

Osiris has tried to reason with NPO, assured their Emperor and Pergamon both that we mean them no harm as people and would not put more on them than they are due, but these attempts at assurance and a reasonable and communicative atmosphere have gone ignored by both parties. We don't feel there is anything left that we can do. We have no confidence that NPO is not a present threat to us. They are not sorry for the threat they've been in the past - they are only sorry for the inconvenience being caught has been to them. This is not acceptable. If you will not answer for your actions, we will answer them for you. Osiris has officially petitioned it's Guardians to War. No Rest. No Reprieve. NPO Delenda Est.

[Th Empire of Wymondham]

Here Here, NPO Delanda Est. It makes me truly proud to be osirian.

[Marilyn Manson Freaks]

Damn.

[Imperium of Josh]

Excellent...

[Arkadia Universalis]

I’m glad to see action finally being taken to stop the NPO from violating the security and sanctity of both their allies and enemies in this game. I sincerely hope that other regions stand in solidarity with Osiris. NPO Delenda Est.

[The Userite Menace]

NPO Delanda Est!!