Osiris | Danburg Seized!

[Syberis]

I'm sure they have some policy among the high ranking members of the NPO, especially with (probably from) the Emperor, about plausible deniability for exactly this kind of situation.

Which is obviously a joke, because an Emperor who doesn't know his men are acting in such a manner over the span of such a long time is an incompetent Emperor at best.

So, I suppose the question is which is it? Was the Emperor unaware of what his men were doing over that long a span, something that would be utterly mindboggling for an autocrat of any kind, or did he sanction such an aggressive action?

[Cormactopia Prime]

I'm sure they have some policy among the high ranking members of the NPO, especially with (probably from) the Emperor, about plausible deniability for exactly this kind of situation.

I personally witnessed Krulltopia telling Feux and Gaspo in 2013 that they could coup Lazarus, but if it went south, he knew nothing about it.

Yes, they maintain plausible deniability as a matter of policy. And they've just purged Feux and AMOM, just like they did after the NLO coup failed, in an attempt to once again save face and appease the many regions that are angry with them. No one should accept it. History will only repeat itself.

It should be noted that Pergamon was the one who purged them, but he is equally culpable for concealing Block's identity, and should also be purged. So this is a completely unserious action, a desperate attempt to placate other regions before the NPO sees more war declarations rolling in.

Pergamon must go. Aleisyr must go. At minimum, a real reformer like Elegarth should replace him. Better yet, total regime change.

[Bedetopia]

I'm sure they have some policy among the high ranking members of the NPO, especially with (probably from) the Emperor, about plausible deniability for exactly this kind of situation.

I personally witnessed Krulltopia telling Feux and Gaspo in 2013 that they could coup Lazarus, but if it went south, he knew nothing about it.

Yes, they maintain plausible deniability as a matter of policy. And they've just purged Feux and AMOM, just like they did after the NLO coup failed, in an attempt to once again save face and appease the many regions that are angry with them. No one should accept it. History will only repeat itself.

It should be noted that Pergamon was the one who purged them, but he is equally culpable for concealing Block's identity, and should also be purged. So this is a completely unserious action, a desperate attempt to placate other regions before the NPO sees more war declarations rolling in.

Pergamon must go. Aleisyr must go. At minimum, a real reformer like Elegarth should replace him. Better yet, total regime change.

Pergamon just wasted half his influence in a panic move. And that's with only a few regions declaring war, imagine when they start attacking the NPO.

[Galiantus III]

That was hardly a panic move. Aleisyr still has ~200K SPDR, and Pergamon is just an RO. That was certainly a huge expenditure of influence compared to normal, but they have plenty more where that came from, and there is little any outside force can do to drain that influence in the near future. 3 months from now things will be back to where they were. The NPO has the tightest security of any region out there, and unless you think enough other regions are willing and able to mount a 2-3 year siege, it really would require an updater force of 500+ people to change that.

[Mghnb]

So the NPO decided it was not enough to try and force Osiris to cut ties with TBH, one of their strongest allies, but also to infiltrate it's government with no regards for Osiran sovereignty? So much for Pacifican respect for GCR sovereignty.

You're also forgetting the point that they did the same thing in Lazarus. Feux and AMOM both personally failed, but one of their group, Stu, managed to get into delegacy in Lazarus prior to Funkadelia becoming delegate and well, we all know the story from there

[Chron]

I'm sure they have some policy among the high ranking members of the NPO, especially with (probably from) the Emperor, about plausible deniability for exactly this kind of situation.

Which is obviously a joke, because an Emperor who doesn't know his men are acting in such a manner over the span of such a long time is an incompetent Emperor at best.

So, I suppose the question is which is it? Was the Emperor unaware of what his men were doing over that long a span, something that would be utterly mindboggling for an autocrat of any kind, or did he sanction such an aggressive action?

What are you talking about? What kind of power do you think Ale has? That he's like in these people's homes spying on them, taking secret notes and seeing if they're doing anything damaging to Osiris or if they're infiltrating them?

Like, get real here. He's not an "autocrat" in the sense you're putting him in, he just has supreme rule over a community that is giving him information if they want or not. It's entirely within the realm of reality and possibility that Ale did in fact not know. This is just nonsense tactics to belittle Ale's leadership abilities and competence and make it look like the only options are the ones you presented, one of which is just absurd and the other insulting.

[Yokiria]

<snip>

Men that swear allegiance to an Emperor then going rogue makes the Emperor look clueless at best, and guilty by association at worst. This is not a new, controversial concept. This is documented fact. It happens in Empires, Dictatorships, Democracies, and any society with a military. To argue that it's a "nonsense tactic" to point this out is to be ignorant of reality.

[Chron]

<snip>

Men that swear allegiance to an Emperor then going rogue makes the Emperor look clueless at best, and guilty by association at worst. This is not a new, controversial concept. This is documented fact. It happens in Empires, Dictatorships, Democracies, and any society with a military. To argue that it's a "nonsense tactic" to point this out is to be ignorant of reality.

That's what ignorant of reality looks like? Are these sacred allegiance swearings made by blood? Is there a way to legitimately enforce them? Usually, the reason why it's guilt by association is that there was a legit way to enforce these kinds of vows and finding out if they were actually breaking them and nothing being done about it. This can't exactly work in a place where the enforcement can be surpassed by - uh - lying, or just simply ghosting.

So, again, it's a nonsense tactic. The argument makes no sense when you take into account that this is a game and no player has the ability to take information forcefully from another.

[Syberis]

One should have some level of knowledge of the long-term operations of their subordinates. To not keep any of that knowledge is foolish. When these are individuals that the NPO has publicly admitted to using to subvert other regions in the past, pretending the Emperor was unaware is foolish at best and dangerous at worst.

How stupid does Aleisyr think we are?

[Chron]

One should have some level of knowledge of the long-term operations of their subordinates. To not keep any of that knowledge is foolish. When these are individuals that the NPO has publicly admitted to using to subvert other regions in the past, pretending the Emperor was unaware is foolish at best and dangerous at worst.

How stupid does Aleisyr think we are?

So, let's play your logic through. Ale somehow knew about this operation, because these people he's put in his Senate did try to subvert other regions before, and somehow he also has 24/7 access to whatever they're seeing and thinking or that these people would one hundred percent tell the entire truth to him all the time about everything they are doing. That sounds like nothing but conjecture and circumstantial evidence, with no basis in reality.

I'm not saying anything definitive one way or the other, but what you're saying is completely outlandish and nonsense to the point where I'm leaning a certain way on your question.

[Yokiria]

Chron, you are describing the requirements for being well-informed on what one's subordinates are doing as if one must be a living God to achieve it. That is not the case.

It's strange for you to be implying that anyone else's intelligence is lacking, with the lack of knowledge you've shown on the subject of leadership so far.

[Altinsane]

The New Pacific Order has betrayed our trust. After discussions with key players both in NPO and witnesses to their behavior, Osiris has established several items as truth:

1) NPO was aware that the person known as Bradley was in fact 94 Block under an alternate identity. NPO claims that their silence on the issue was an attempt to give him a second chance - not in their community, mind you, where he remained unwelcome, but in all of our communities. Despite GP at large's very loud investigations into Bradley's identity and full confidence that he was an alt of some kind, NPO remained silent and allowed him to influence our players, gain admittance into our regions, and presumably spy on us on NPOs behalf in exchange for their "second chance." The only region besides Amestris that Block attained membership in is the only region named by NPO Senators as a place they would be interested in intel from: The Black Hawks. We do not feel this can be a coincidence.

2) Pergamon and Feux specifically spoke with Block, gave him intructions, advised him on who he should stay away from, and better ways to conceal his identity. Aleisyr was aware that Block was being protected by NPO, had his Senators under orders not to reveal his identity, and knew that Block was an unwelcome character, but did not bother to inquire at all on why Block was unwelcome, so he claims plausible deniability in the situation at large.

3) The infiltration of the Rahl family and of first Lazarus, then Osiris, then Lazarus a second time lead by several Pacificans (named in our above administrative announcement) under the names Adytus, Wrektopia, Kowassati, And WeastJurmany was an operation unsanctioned by Aleisyr. These players were exiled from NPO as punishment for their interference in Lazarus and the formation and subsequent death of the NLO. They went on to immediately return to Lazarus and successfully take delegacy there under the name Kowassati, a notably weak delegacy which drove them all into Osiris. There, the lot of them reached significant power, all except Kowassati eventually becoming Guardians. Their time in Osiris ended with an even weaker term from Kowassati as Chief Vizier that was so utterly uneventful, it lead to an impeachment of his entire government and a full repeal of Osiris' constitution. They used these events to spur a constitutional crisis in Osiris, earning massive lashback from Osirans. They fled the region back to Lazarus, where they once again attempted to rise in influence and take the region, both as Wolfists in the Khanate and during Lazarchy when Imki couped. At this point, Aleisyr was finally made aware of their identities as Pacificans.

4) While Aleisyr had not been aware of Adytus&co's identities during the bulk of their activity, he was aware of it while Adytus tarted up to near-delegacy in during Lazarchy. While NPO presented Feux as a Peacekeeper and attempted to get him into the Council of Natives, he continued to endotart as Adytus. They claim that this was so that they could continue to use Adytus to spy on Balder while still using NPO troops to support Imki, but failed to report this duplicity to Imki or their fellow Peacekeepers. After having banned Feux from NPO for Lazarus subversion and later finding out that he attempted to subvert Lazarus twice and Osiris once during his exile, NPO decided that these were not important details. Feux then went on to be presented by NPO as a "true Lazerene native" and given a position as Senator in NPO. NPO went on to not mention this tidbit to any affected parties and do nothing to handle the situation until the rest of GP found out about it, when Feux and AMOM were banned by Pergamon not for their wrongdoing, but because they had not followed orders in a way that pleased him.

We gather from all of this layers of mixed incompetency and ill-intent. NPO is notably an opportunistic region. They've spotted opportunities to spy on our regions, intervene in our internal politics, push barriers between us as it was convenient to them, etc and they took it. But they took it foolishly. Now war is on the mind. Osiris wishes to give NPO a chance to make Right their wrongs in this situation, and will gladly forgive NPO for these misgivings and go on our merry way under the following terms:

• Those responsible for the infiltration of Osiris are permanently banned from the Pacific and their actions are publicly disavowed.
• Pergamon for hiding Block's identity and advising him on how to better deceive us is removed as Consul and permanently banned from the Pacific. NPO publicly promises that it will never again allow our communities to endure OOC threats by their hands without our consent and prior knowledge. (Hint: we do not consent)
• For either weaponization of the idea of plausible deniability or genuine incompetence on Aleisyr's part that has reached so far as to destroy the sovereignty and nearly lead to the coup of several GCRs by Pacificans, Aleisyr steps down and allows someone who can be more trusted to pay at least enough attention to his region that it doesn't put the rest of us in danger to take delegacy.
• Any further information regarding threats to the security of Osiris or our fellow GCRs is released immediately.
• Any further information regarding OOC threats that NPO is harboring or has harbored is released immediately.

If NPO fails to answer for their actions, I will have no choice except to answer the call of my people and join Europeia in arms. NPO cannot be allowed to continue to take advantage of our regions and betray our trust. If they insist on letting this go unpunished, as they say...

NPO delenda est!

NPO delenda est, I wish you all the best

NPO delenda est

The more, the merrier! NPO delenda est!

NPO delanda est

NPO delenda est.

NPO delenda est.

[Ramaeus]

tl;dr plz

[Devi]

Tl;dr-
-NPO knew about a player known for OoC nastiness, refused to pass said information on to affected communities
-NPO clique infiltrated several GCRs, causing turmoil generally through incompetent governance.
-NPO failed to hold said people accountable until caught red-handed, and then scapegoated expendables.
-Osiris is more or less demanding the removal of responsible parties and more accountability in general.

---

A strong stance to take on the violation of Osiris' sovereignty. NPO delenda est.

[Kavagrad]

Demanding what must be achieved by one form or another, the Pharoah has taken exactly the right action. The NPO won’t comply, mind you, but alas.

NPO delenda est!

[Bedetopia]

tl;dr plz

Altino is not happy. The NPO has decieved people for way too long.

She has given them an ultimatum: Either the NPO gets rid of Pergamon and Aleisyr among other demands or Osiris declares war, joining many others.

[Armaros]

a strong and wise statement. NPO delenda est!

[Cormactopia Prime]

This stance is more than reasonable, and more merciful than the NPO should have expected. If they refuse these terms, in time they will burn.

NPO delenda est.

[Th Empire of Wymondham]

snip

Here Here, a strong and unequivocally powerful stanent from the Pharaoh that leaves no semblance of doubt with regard to the position of Osiris with regard to the balantant and disgusting actions by the NPO, I am truly proud to be an osirian.
NPO delanda est!

[Indo-Malaysia]

Ave Umbra! NPO Delenda Est!

[Glacikaldr]

And with such transparent reasoning including the outline of possible courses of action, Alti reminds us of her maturity, her ability to lead Osiris, and her apprehension to properly handle this situation. There should now be no doubt that Osiris will pursue this issue. Instead, it all comes down to how the NPO will respond.

[Revolutionary Vanguardism]

I personally don't see the need for this 'ultimatum', the things demanded of the NPO would not be acceptable for any sovereign region regardless of ideology. This is tantamount to a declaration of war.

[Malphe]

I personally don't see the need for this 'ultimatum', the things demanded of the NPO would not be acceptable for any sovereign region regardless of ideology. This is tantamount to a declaration of war.

Asking people to step down for what people think is unacceptable behavior? Tell me where I last saw that.
Oh yeah, everywhere. IRL and NS.

[Revolutionary Vanguardism]

Asking people to step down for what people think is unacceptable behavior? Tell me where I last saw that.
Oh yeah, everywhere. IRL and NS.

Usually in 'RL' when states demand of other states that their key leadership figures step down with the threat of having war declared on them, it is undestood that the state who issues that ultimatum does not intend for a peaceful resolution in the first place. To concede to such an ultimatum would be to accept the cessation of their sovereignty.

[The Maid of Orleans]

Asking people to step down for what people think is unacceptable behavior? Tell me where I last saw that.
Oh yeah, everywhere. IRL and NS.

Usually in 'RL' when states demand of other states that their key leadership figures step down with the threat of having war declared on them, it is undestood that the state who issues that ultimatum does not intend for a peaceful resolution in the first place. To concede to such an ultimatum would be to accept the cessation of their sovereignty.

And now the NPO suddenly cares about sovereignty? Fascinating.

~devi, forgetting to log out of their puppet