[DEFEATED] Threshold of Majority

[Charlotte Ryberg]

Some semantics changes...

-snip-

Taken on board. Clause 6 now reads: "The duties of the World Health Authority shall be extended to help, on the request of member countries, determine a sensible Threshold of Majority for each of their species which is compliant with the intent and purpose of this resolution".

And 4 reads: "Member countries may define a Threshold of Criminal Responsibility that is different from the Threshold of Majority, provided that such threshold occurs at a point where the individual is of an appropriate and/or sufficient mental capacity to acknowledge criminal responsibility."

[Quelesh]

And 4 reads: "Member countries may define a Threshold of Criminal Responsibility that is different from the Threshold of Majority, provided that such threshold occurs at a point where the individual is of an appropriate and/or sufficient mental capacity to acknowledge criminal responsibility."

This is more agreeable.

[Quadrimmina]

This may be ready for submission, Ms. Harper.

[Linux and the X]

Other delegations may be surprised to hear that we support this.

[Manticore Reborn]

The Star Kingdom of Manticore Reborn believes this draft is ready for submission.

[Embolalia]

Just for clarification before we officially lend support to the newest draft: This would still allow for legal emancipation, yes? It seems to, I would simply like to be sure.
EDIT to clarify: Legal emancipation being, in my informal description, the granting of majority rights to an individual under the usual threshold of majority via legal process on a case-by-case basis.

[Mugar-Gorlok Minor]

1. All member countries must adopt a Threshold of Majority for each sapient species within their jurisdiction, provided that such threshold occurs at a point where the individual is of an appropriate and/or sufficient mental capacity to be considered emancipated.

We strongly oppose this resolution as we don't know what is a sapient species, or rather we don't know if a species is sapient or not. Homo sapiens is the only member of Mugar-Gorlok Minor fauna that we know for sure, mainly because we are humans.
To adopt a Threshold of Majority, in doubt, for dolphins, gorillas, platypus and so on is quite ridiculous.

[Quadrimmina]

Just for clarification before we officially lend support to the newest draft: This would still allow for legal emancipation, yes? It seems to, I would simply like to be sure.
EDIT to clarify: Legal emancipation being, in my informal description, the granting of majority rights to an individual under the usual threshold of majority via legal process on a case-by-case basis.

Clause 2 and its subclause are specifically engineered to ensure that such emancipation is allowed, to the best of my knowledge.

[Manticore Reborn]

1. All member countries must adopt a Threshold of Majority for each sapient species within their jurisdiction, provided that such threshold occurs at a point where the individual is of an appropriate and/or sufficient mental capacity to be considered emancipated.

We strongly oppose this resolution as we don't know what is a sapient species, or rather we don't know if a species is sapient or not. Homo sapiens is the only member of Mugar-Gorlok Minor fauna that we know for sure, mainly because we are humans.
To adopt a Threshold of Majority, in doubt, for dolphins, gorillas, platypus and so on is quite ridiculous.

The Charter of Civil Rights extends certain rights to "All inhabitants of member states". My government is quite sure that in Mugar-Gorlok Minor there are inhabitants of the "dolphins, gorillas, platypus and so on" varieties. Do you extend these rights to these inhabitants? Obviously, any reasonable government would understand that this is not an attempt to grant dolphins, gorillas, platypus or any other species that is unable to prove it's sapience.

[Mugar-Gorlok Minor]

Well, if it's way too hard to find a suitable term,why not say it like that:

1. All member countries must adopt a Threshold of Majority for all its inhabitants (with some clarification here), provided that such threshold occurs at a point where the individual is of an appropriate and/or sufficient mental capacity to be considered emancipated.

But apply a rule to sapient species doesn't mean anything for us. This resolution implies that species that don't participate in national politic are not sapient, which is unfounded. We know that we will not reasonably apply this rule to dolphins, gorillas and platypus, but it casts a doubt on their possible judgement and wisdom.

Anyway, we are talking about:
Category: Human Rights (because even when the age of majority is normally the threshold where voting rights are conferred upon: not all member states do that)
Strength: Strong: Affects ALL Citizens.

[Yohannes]

His imperial and Royal Majesty Kaisar Hamengkubuwono I has decided that the establishment of this proposal into a resolution is a positive thing for the good of his majesty's empire.

-The honourable speaker of the Imperial Council (Dewan Federal)-

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-His Imperial and Royal Majesty,
Kaisar Hamengkubuwono I
By the Grace of God,
Indonesian emperor of the Unitary Empire of Yohannes,
and King of the Kingdom of Java-

Yohannes's factbook : viewtopic.php?f=23&t=74160&start=0
Yohannes's statistic : http://nseconomy.thirdgeek.com/nseconom ... n=Yohannes
-Do you know that although the Indonesian Empire of Yohannes is only the fourth largest nation (in terms of
population and landmass) in Indonesia, its economy is as large as
the first, second, and third largest nations in the region of Indonesia combined together?

[Charlotte Ryberg]

Honoured ambassador from Mugar-Gorlok Minor, you will find that the category is a bit, err, odd but it will honestly cover everyone that's sapient in RP.

[Turtatalia]

Mrs Harper. I suggest that you think carefully before submission. According to my personal copy of the Order of Business for the next month, there are twenty-one days before the floor will become vacant again. Thus, I estimate that if we submit now and assuming this reaches quorum, this proposal will not be admitted to vote until 29th October. As of the 27th October, I will be on leave for four days maximum, and I may not be able to contribute to this discussion. I thus suggest that if you want to gurantee this proposal a place in the queue for debate before the month is out, you should submit this proposal now.

However, there may come a time where the proposal may require alteration, and, as you well know, once a proposal is submitted, it CANNOT be altered. Therefore, I suggest you make abolutely sure that all members of this Standing Committee are absolutely and finally happy with this proposal as it stands before you submit. If not, then this must return to Committee Stage for more consideration.
I will, of course, leave the final decision to you, Mrs Harper.

[Quadrimmina]

Mrs Harper. I suggest that you think carefully before submission. According to my personal copy of the Order of Business for the next month, there are twenty-one days before the floor will become vacant again. Thus, I estimate that if we submit now and assuming this reaches quorum, this proposal will not be admitted to vote until 29th October. As of the 27th October, I will be on leave for four days maximum, and I may not be able to contribute to this discussion. I thus suggest that if you want to gurantee this proposal a place in the queue for debate before the month is out, you should submit this proposal now.

However, there may come a time where the proposal may require alteration, and, as you well know, once a proposal is submitted, it CANNOT be altered. Therefore, I suggest you make abolutely sure that all members of this Standing Committee are absolutely and finally happy with this proposal as it stands before you submit. If not, then this must return to Committee Stage for more consideration.
I will, of course, leave the final decision to you, Mrs Harper.

I believe four delegations, mine included, have voiced their support for this bill. Delegation from Turtatalia, do you have objections or suggestions, or do you support as is?

[Charlotte Ryberg]

OOC: I remember that Manticore Reborn had requested a legality check but I suppose the situation has shifted?

[Quadrimmina]

OOC: I remember that Manticore Reborn had requested a legality check but I suppose the situation has shifted?

Perhaps, but this leads me to believe otherwise:

The Star Kingdom of Manticore Reborn believes this draft is ready for submission.

[Turtatalia]

Mrs Harper. I suggest that you think carefully before submission. According to my personal copy of the Order of Business for the next month, there are twenty-one days before the floor will become vacant again. Thus, I estimate that if we submit now and assuming this reaches quorum, this proposal will not be admitted to vote until 29th October. As of the 27th October, I will be on leave for four days maximum, and I may not be able to contribute to this discussion. I thus suggest that if you want to gurantee this proposal a place in the queue for debate before the month is out, you should submit this proposal now.

However, there may come a time where the proposal may require alteration, and, as you well know, once a proposal is submitted, it CANNOT be altered. Therefore, I suggest you make abolutely sure that all members of this Standing Committee are absolutely and finally happy with this proposal as it stands before you submit. If not, then this must return to Committee Stage for more consideration.
I will, of course, leave the final decision to you, Mrs Harper.

I believe four delegations, mine included, have voiced their support for this bill. Delegation from Turtatalia, do you have objections or suggestions, or do you support as is?

I am still a supporter. I was not criticizing the Bill, I was merely issuing advice

[Enn]

Angelo sent me details of discussions had during his period here in my stead. Including this bizarre series of drafts that seem more about amassing author credits than actually addressing important details of international law.

I will be strongly AGAINST this proposal, should it come to a vote.

Stephanie Fulton,
WA Ambassador for Enn

[Ardchoille]

The Star Kingdom of Manticore Reborn believes this draft is ready for submission.

Hang on, we've taken this long to get around to it, give us our moment in the sun!

First up, the original question was:

On this proposal is it legal to legislate an Age of Majority considering previous proposal state Age of Majority and leave the definition up to nations?

... and on that we'd have had to return a "no, it's not". Not just because of other legislation, but also because it couldn't be implemented. Given the nature of the NS Multiverse, there is no way you could state an actual age in any recognisable chronology that would be uniformly applicable in all WA nations, whatever their citizenry.

But by the time that became obvious, the proposal had moved on.

It's already been established through WA law that member nations hold a concept of majority. So, when GA#4 says "A)Defines a 'minor' as a person below the legal age of majority as defined in their nation", most of the human nations hear it just like that, but the Gnomes' translation for the nation Giant Hermit Crab might sound something like, "Defines a 'minor' as a first-shell or second-shell". In Black Widow Spider-ese, it probably goes, "Defines a minor as a being who has not yet eaten a mate or been eaten by a mate". That is, GA#4 acknowledges that the concept "minor" exists.

This has brought you to the idea of a threshold, some definable point at which a being crosses over from being a "minor" to being a "major". Existing legislation implies that individual nations know what this point is for their (possibly mixed species) populations. Also, it implies that the point is already sufficiently defined in each member nation for an individual to be able say to a conscientious employer, "Yes, I am not banned from working, I had my 16th birthday/ate my first husband/moved into my third shell yesterday."

But your concern is that some nations, to avoid WA laws, may set the threshold at levels that don't accord with the intent of those laws. So (the way we read it) your proposal now attempts to make nations define the threshold in a specific way: "as defined by your nation, provided that you take these factors into account".

We don't see this as being the same action as flatly telling them where to set it, which would have been illegal by contradicting previous legislation. Nor is it exactly duplication, since nations have to make sure that their existing definitions come within your proposal's guidelines. So on those points it's legal.

There was some debate on whether it's necessary, but we don't see that as a legality question. That's up to delegates to decide.

EDIT: It's also noted that the current wording doesn't prevent nations from having differing thresholds for gaining or losing differing rights, responsibilities, protections or privileges.

[Charlotte Ryberg]

Ms. Harper and her team did indeed come to their senses when it was apparent that not all member states could agree on a fixed age because not only the NS-multiverse was not limited just to humans or planet earth, but we are legislating in an apparently Futurama-like universe.

On the area of necessity, it is hoped that this resolution will bring to a close years of concern about a major WA compliance issue (some ambassadors may have heard about the Creative Solutions Agency) and bring some support to resolutions protecting children even though, of course, it does not have any references to them due to the House of Cards rule.

Other than that, I thank the WA Secretariat for the analysis and ruling.

- Ms. S. Harper.

[Quadrimmina]

We ask the delegate of Charlotte Ryberg for a timetable for submission, if she would be so obliged to provide one for my perusal.

[Charlotte Ryberg]

We found ourselves a bit over the 3,460 character limit by 14 characters so here is the tweaked version for final consideration. The definition of Mental or physical disability has also been tidied up a bit, and added a qualifier to state that the likelihood to prevent one from being able to function independently in life may not not necessarily be 100%. Sorry about that:

OBSERVING that the Threshold of Majority, also known as Age of Majority and Age of Maturity, is where an individual legally becomes an adult and qualifies for the rights, privileges and obligations thereof;

CONCERNED that there is no consensus for the definition for the Threshold of Majority in all member countries for many reasons and there is no way to compel member countries to adopt one specific chronological age,

NOTING that defining the Threshold of Majority as one where the actual mental capacity of an individual is too low, or one where no individual will ever reach, may cause inefficiencies and infringe upon the rights and protections of said individuals;

SEEKING to provide a framework for the determination of a sensible Threshold of Majority:

In this resolution:

• “Threshold of Majority” is a threshold where an individual is no longer considered a minor and is emancipated with full legal rights and responsibilities;
• “Mental or physical disability” refers to a mental or physical condition that may prevent one from being able to function independently in life, and thus prevents one from being considered anything but a "minor".

The General Assembly hereby introduces the following measures:

1. Member countries must adopt a Threshold of Majority for each sapient species within their jurisdiction, provided that such threshold occurs at a point where the individual is of an appropriate and/or sufficient mental capacity to be considered emancipated.

2. Member countries whose population is made up of multiple species may freely define a Threshold of Majority unique to each of their species.

3. In member countries where the Threshold of Majority is based on an intellectual capacity test, it must not be construed to exclude individuals with a mental or physical disability from achieving the Rights of Majority unless such disability would directly affect the person's ability to be an independent member of society.

4. Member countries may delegate the responsibility of establishing a Threshold of Majority to a sub-national or regional administration for their jurisdiction.

5. Member countries may provide for individuals to seek emancipation prior to achieving the Threshold of Majority through their judicial system.

6. An individual who is emancipated in such manner shall be considered over the Threshold of Majority for the purpose of national and international law.

7. Member countries may introduce judicial provisions for the removal of some or all of the Rights of Majority from an individual, provided that such process is done in the best interest of the individual and not in violation of international law.

8. Member countries may define a Threshold of Criminal Responsibility that is different from the Threshold of Majority, provided that such threshold occurs at a point where the individual is of an appropriate and/or sufficient mental capacity to acknowledge criminal responsibility.

9. The Threshold of Majority must not be construed as to prevent an individual from allowing other competent individuals to continue exercising any level of legal control and legal responsibilities over and on behalf of them after such threshold.

10. The duties of the World Health Authority shall be extended to help, on the request of member countries, determine a sensible Threshold of Majority for each of their species that is compliant with the intent and purpose of this resolution.

[Quadrimmina]

Looks good. Submission is recommended.

[Charlotte Ryberg]

Looks good. Submission is recommended.

I'll aim to do a test run on Monday but (OOC) I have a mild cold, so I'm taking it easy.

[Quadrimmina]

Looks good. Submission is recommended.

I'll aim to do a test run on Monday but (OOC) I have a mild cold, so I'm taking it easy.

Understood Ms. Harper. Feel better. Our diplomatic medical professionals are available for your use if needed.