Immigration in the Classroom

[Gravlen]

Being in America illegally isn't a criminal act.

Wow, way to understand the legal system.
When an act is said to be "illegal" that logically entails that that act is NOT legal, and in fact against a law. When you break a law you become a criminal. There are laws against crossing the US border without going through a checkpoint. When you do that you are breaking a law.
IPSO-FREAKIN-FACTO - being in America ILLEGALLY IS a criminal act.

He does understand it, and he's right. And ipso facto, you're wrong. Because being in the US illegally is a violation of civil law, but not criminal law.

Which is why people found bein illegally in the US usually are deported, an administrative sanction, instead of being punished by fines or prison time levied by a (criminal) court.

[Occupied Deutschland]

Pardon me, being in America illegally is against a CIVIL law.
Doesn't change the fact that they shouldn't be here, and shouldn't be gaming the system for their own benefit at the cost of everyone else.

[Maurepas]

Maybe the teacher wanted to put a face on illegal immigration.

It's harder to hate all illegals on principle when you're friends with a couple.

I'd say that's okay. It's not really a problem unless the teacher did something with the information.

[Occupied Deutschland]

I'm wondering whether or not the school could've, or should've, kicked them out though. I'm not saying the school should've, but it seems appropriate.

[Mahaj]

I'm wondering whether or not the school could've, or should've, kicked them out though. I'm not saying the school should've, but it seems appropriate.

I'm wondering whether or not the school could've or should've kicked the teacher out though. I'm not saying the school should've, but it seems appropriate.

[Occupied Deutschland]

I actually wasn't being sarcastic, I don't know whether more people would be angry at the school for kicking them out, or the students for being there.

[SaintB]

Pardon me, being in America illegally is against a CIVIL law.
Doesn't change the fact that they shouldn't be here, and shouldn't be gaming the system for their own benefit at the cost of everyone else.

If people would stop complaining about them being here and accept that fact that immigration happens and I dunno... let them stay on the condition they start paying taxes and maybe a fine for crossing the border then they wouldn't be gaming the system. Its the other way around from my point of view; the system is gaming the immigrants and then blaming it on them for being there.

[Occupied Deutschland]

^exactly.

The system needs to be improved.

[SaintB]

^exactly.

The system needs to be improved.

i also think we need to stop focusing on punishing the immigrants and start punishing the companies that are knowingly hiring them.

[Occupied Deutschland]

We need a solution that entails
1) securing the borders (Canada too!)
2) Streamlining and allowing for LEGAL immigration
3) Going after companies & individuals that knowingly hire illegals
4) Criminally trying illegals who falsify paperwork, etcetera.

There might be more we could do, but that's off the top of my head.

[Gravlen]

^exactly.

The system needs to be improved.

i also think we need to stop focusing on punishing the immigrants and start punishing the companies that are knowingly hiring them.

Why not do both?

[Norstal]

Today afterschool, me and my family were eating lunch at the dinner table. My sister started talking about how in her Social Studies class they were talking about illegal immigration.She said her teacher said that she used to have a student who came to the U.S. illegally. She then asked to the class, "How many of you are here illegally?" I was really surprised. Why would a teacher ask that? It is none of her business wether someone is here legally or otherwise. My sister said that some kids actually raised their hands, and though it was wrong for the teacher to do that, they shouldn't have raised their hands. They're lucky she wasn't a rascist or anything like that. But back to the teacher, she should not care wether her students U.S. born citizens or illegal aliens. Her job is to teach, not for her to know about the immigrations staus of her students or anybody else for that matter, including her other students. I know this is a pretty big rant, it just made me really mad that she would ask a question like that.

Bloggy blog. Also, its voluntary. If you're stupid enough to say you're an illegal, you're stupid enough to scream "IM A MURDERER!"

[Norstal]

1) securing the borders (Canada too!)

waste o money

2) Streamlining and allowing for LEGAL immigration

Yes, the immigration in the U.S system, although top-notch compared to others, still needs work.

3) Going after companies & individuals that knowingly hire illegals

No, its incentive for Americans to work harder.

4) Criminally trying illegals who falsify paperwork, etcetera.

They do do that o_O

[Buffett and Colbert]

When an act is said to be "illegal" that logically entails that that act is NOT legal, and in fact against a law. When you break a law you become a criminal. There are laws against crossing the US border without going through a checkpoint. When you do that you are breaking a law.
IPSO-FREAKIN-FACTO - being in America ILLEGALLY IS a criminal act.

You've just demonstrated how you do not actually understand how the legal system works. Being in the country illegally is a civil violation, not a criminal one.

[Occupied Deutschland]

1) securing the borders (Canada too!)

waste o money

2) Streamlining and allowing for LEGAL immigration

Yes, the immigration in the U.S system, although top-notch compared to others, still needs work.

3) Going after companies & individuals that knowingly hire illegals

No, its incentive for Americans to work harder.

4) Criminally trying illegals who falsify paperwork, etcetera.

They do do that o_O

How is securing the borders a waste of money? It keeps more illegal people from coming in, thus sparing us the cost of deporting or criminally trying them here, not to mention saving us the money they are apparently getting from PUBLIC EDUCATION

How will companies & individuals not getting prosecuted for hiring illegals be incentive for Americans? Will it go something like:
HEY work harder, because if you don't we could replace you with a illegal immigrant who we'd only have to pay a dollar an hour.

[UnitedStatesOfAmerica-]

Whether illegal immigrants are paying taxes is actually still a grey area. They don’t pay property taxes which is where public schools get most of their money from. But they do pay the sales tax because most clerks are not going to be hassled asking if they are in the US legally otherwise they would have to ask every single person. Just as they are required to card every single person who looks under the age of 35 who tries to buy cigarettes or alcohol.
Now if the employers are taking taxes out of the pay checks there would be a record because that money would have been handed to the government. Here’s the problem: most employers who hire illegals take the money and run with it.
It’s common sense that illegal immigrants do pay the sales tax but they do not pay property taxes. Whether they are actually paying to social security rather than an employment scam is up in the air. It is also inconclusive that the illegals are paying federal taxes unless they are using an ID with another person’s name and social security in which case they are not entitled to any of the benefits that taxpayers normally are entitled to because criminals have no right to benefit from their crimes.
Out of fairness, the children of illegal immigrants are entitled to public education in California because in California, 50% of the public education budget is paid for with the state sales tax which I have shown that everyone pays.
Immigration is a paperwork crime just like driving without a license or insurance. Both of the latter are criminal acts and are punishable by revocation of driving previliges. The punishment for illegal immigration is a ban on entry into the United States. All three are crimes and all three are punished as crimes.
Violating a civil law is still an act of committing a crime. If you drive without a license or without insurance you are criminal. It is the same for being in the US illegally.
The difference between those crimes and illegal immigration is that illegal immigration is usually proof that the suspect is engaged in worse felonious crimes such as ID theft, invasion of information privacy, child rape, drug dealing, gang banging or supporting terrorism, welfare fraud, among a host of other felonies that illegal immigrants have been convicted of.
Just because you don’t go to jail for your crime does not mean you are not a criminal when you break the law. The definition of criminal is any person who knowingly and deliberately does anything that he or she knows is illegal.
A more sensible way to enforce this law is not to deport on the spot but hold them while checking them for any criminal actions they committed in the US which would require prison time: for example using forged identity documents. Illegal immigration is a civil law true, but the acquisition, possession and use of stolen identities or forged government documents is a felony in most states.

[Pope Joan]

Maybe the teacher wanted to put a face on illegal immigration.

It's harder to hate all illegals on principle when you're friends with a couple.

Or maybe she wanted to turn them in.

INS is not bound by the Constitution, they don't need probable cause.

[Strator]

The students rose their hands, if they didn't want to admit they were illegal there was no forcing them to.
What I'm ticked off about is that there are illegal immigrants in the school system we Americans pay for. Here in Montana we have to show a birth certificate and a Social Security card to get into the education system, if it's the same wherever this classroom is (presumably California, Texas, etcetera) then these kids are presenting fraudulent paperwork and taking advantage of what we paid for without contributing.
If we're going to have public education, at least limit it to the legal public.

Illegals can still pay tax and be contributing citizens if they were there on a work visa which was canceled.

[Hellestia]

The students rose their hands, if they didn't want to admit they were illegal there was no forcing them to.
What I'm ticked off about is that there are illegal immigrants in the school system we Americans pay for. Here in Montana we have to show a birth certificate and a Social Security card to get into the education system, if it's the same wherever this classroom is (presumably California, Texas, etcetera) then these kids are presenting fraudulent paperwork and taking advantage of what we paid for without contributing.
If we're going to have public education, at least limit it to the legal public.

This. ^

[Hellestia]

Illegals can still pay tax and be contributing citizens if they were there on a work visa which was canceled.

I think you just contradicted yourself right there.

[Pope Joan]

3/4 of illegals pay personal income tax to the IRS, per a Reason article sited here, where they also state that illegals own homes (many do) and others pay rent, so there;s your property tax.

http://dubitoergo.blogspot.com/2010/07/ ... o-die.html

[UnitedStatesOfAmerica-]

Any property owned by an illegal immigrant can be siezed because it was acquired via the conduct of illegal activity (illegal immigration). The precedent for this is the seizure of vehicles owned by unlicensed drivers or the homes of people convicted of drug dealing.

Any property purchased by an illegal immigrant in the US was done so through fraud (this applies only to the ones who did not come here on visas that then expired.)

Your source, btw, is biased. I would note your source claims that renters pay property tax. This is not true in many cases because of rent control laws which prohibit the land owner from adding the cost of property taxes to the cost he charges for rent. As a result many illegals, again the ones who crossed over illegally, not the ones who came on valid visas, end living on the streets or in the slum parts of the cities that do not have rent control. The money they pay to the unscrupulous landlords in those cases goes to fill the landlords pockets, not the state or counties.

[UnitedStatesOfAmerica-]

I find it interesting that the Mexicans are demanding nonnegotiable amnesty for their illegals but are hostile to amnesty for another ethnic group. The fact that fraud was committed to acquire jobs in the US means these people are not working here legally.

According to amnesty supporters it is ok for Mexicans to break the law but if anyone else does it they need to be imprisoned or if an African enters the US illegally they should be deported but if the offender is Mexican they should be left alone.

[L3 Communications]

How is the school funded?

It's a public school, but nevertheless, even if they're illegal, they should still be able to go to school. Education should be for everyone. And besides, the "illegal immigrants" would pay taxes if it wasn't for those white conservatives who do not let them become U.S. citizens.

American education should only be for tax-paying, American citizens.

[Norstal]

How is securing the borders a waste of money? It keeps more illegal people from coming in, thus sparing us the cost of deporting or criminally trying them here, not to mention saving us the money they are apparently getting from PUBLIC EDUCATION

How will companies & individuals not getting prosecuted for hiring illegals be incentive for Americans? Will it go something like:
HEY work harder, because if you don't we could replace you with a illegal immigrant who we'd only have to pay a dollar an hour.

1. The borders are already secured. Unless there's an impending invasion from the Canadian or Mexican army, we don't need to pour more money.

And what statistics do you have to prove that all illegals are criminals? If they are criminals, maybe educating them will stop them being criminals.

2. If the companies can't get illegals here, they'll just move production there. Simple for them. They're already doing it anyways.