Forget Russian Meddling

[Northeast American Federation]

Cold War II has started and a substantial portion of the political leadership of the country is telling us Pearl Harbor didn't actually happen.

Oh yeah, that's a reasonable analogy. Some schmucks in Russia spent some money on Facebook ads, so it's time for World War 3.

[Uxupox]

So should the United States invade the Russian tundra? That is to be strong right?

The US and its President certainly should be doing more than adopting Russian policy positions in places like Syria and the Ukraine, taking action against Russian provocations such as the Novichok poisonings only reluctantly and even then backing off any with real consequences, doing squadoosh about documented ongoing Russian attempts on the 2018 elections, the nation's electric infrastructure and other targets and attempting to obstruct the special counsel's investigation into the documented Russian interference in the 2016 elections.

Cold War II has started and a substantial portion of the political leadership of the country is telling us Pearl Harbor didn't actually happen.

P.S. being "left wing" or "right wing" or "middle wing" doesn't mean one thinks differently about whether one's nation ought to maintain its prestige or influence in the wider world; at least it didn't used to.

?

The US has being engaging in special ops against Russians in both Syria and the Ukraine.

[Senkaku]

Cold War II has started and a substantial portion of the political leadership of the country is telling us Pearl Harbor didn't actually happen.

Oh yeah, that's a reasonable analogy. Some schmucks in Russia spent some money on Facebook ads, so it's time for World War 3.

Some schmucks in Russia interfered in our political process, so it's time to see if we can't interfere in theirs. It's always fun to watch people knock over statues, after all.

[The Batorys]

Whose idea was Citizen's United?

I'm not defending Republicans, I dont even like them. You're attempted deflections are meaningless, just because something is open to abuse doesn't make it okay when someone abuses it.

Welcome to politics. It has always been full of dirty tricks and it always will be, due to the stakes for winning so high.

If you're too pure to be ruthless, then clearly you don't care about actually succeeding in accomplishing your political goals.

[The Batorys]

US leaders back to James K. Polk at least invaded other nations and interfered in their affairs in pursuance of US interests. That is what strong nations do, have done at least since the Athenians told the Melians in the fourth century BCE that the strong do as they can while the weak suffer as they must, and will continue to do.

The question is not whether or not the US has interfered in any other nations' affairs. The question is whether the US is to be strong or whether it is to be weak.

Weak nations do nothing when other nations interfere in their elections. Which is it to be?

>Calls self left-wing.
>Supports showing strength through the use of force.
>What's going on big guy? (pic related)

Left wing does not mean the same thing as pacifist.

[The Batorys]

Isn't this standard practice in American politics?

Anyway, the rise of "anybody but Russia" deflection in the party that still saw Moscow as an existential threat as late as... 2016, is fascinating.

As recently as 2012 (and probably more recently, right up until November 2016), we were told, in response to fears of Russia, that "the 80s called, they want their Cold War back." So okay, fine, we look elsewhere. Maybe we look at China. Now half the country is Russian operatives apparently, if the prevailing narrative is to be believed. Now all of a sudden Russia is the big enemy and we need to declare war otherwise Blumpf is a Russian puppet.

If you think the Cold War actually ended, you're naive.

[Rectification Government]

>Calls self left-wing.
>Supports showing strength through the use of force.
>What's going on big guy? (pic related)

Left wing does not mean the same thing as pacifist.

But it does mean the opposite of imperialist militarism, right?
Going to war to show strength is imperialist militarism.

[US-SSR]

Nope, no smoking gun, only a half dozen guilty pleas, dozens of indictments, the accountant and others immunized, etc. etc. etc. It took about this long for Watergate to work itself out btw. Some of us have seen this movie before. We know how it ends.

Not well for the President*.

And pray tell, how many of those pleas explicitly implicated Russia, explicitly showed collusion, and weren't basically tax fraud and other such things?

And pray tell how many of the articles of impeachment against Nixon explicitly implicated him for burglarizing DNC HQ at the Watergate? How many of the articles against Clinton explicitly implicated him for getting his knob polished in the WH pantry by a woman young enough to be his daughter, despite the freakish obsession of the Judge Kavanaughs of the world? The coverup is always -- always -- worse than the crime.

[Trumpisslavia]

...and it seems the partisan hacks on both sides -- but especially the Democrat supporters here -- won't stop their... whatever form of stubborn stupidity has been going on since I last posted.

[Petrasylvania]

...and it seems the partisan hacks on both sides -- but especially the Democrat supporters here -- won't stop their... whatever form of stubborn stupidity has been going on since I last posted.

Pointing out that dick but legal political maneuvers isn't even comparable to enlisting the espionage and propaganda assets of a foreign power in an election is stubborn stupidity now?

[Dahon]

...and it seems the partisan hacks on both sides -- but especially the Democrat supporters here -- won't stop their... whatever form of stubborn stupidity has been going on since I last posted.

Pointing out that dick but legal political maneuvers isn't even comparable to enlisting the espionage and propaganda assets of a foreign power in an election is stubborn stupidity now?

In the context of "yeah, it's technically not a crime and they're Dems anyway so we're letting 'em pass -- and if you're not up with that we're gonna whatabout you hard" despite the full awareness that if GOP operatives cooked up that shit you'd all be screeching about it?

Yes. Yes, dammit. And you can't whatabout me to hell, for my anti-Trump and anti-GOP bonafides are long established, so either face up to the fact that this is an egregious ethical breach that can only further distort American democracy whatever its legality, or dance your partisan jig and alienate those fed up with Trump but can't see the party you support as a democratic alternative to Trump's authoritarianism.

[The Batorys]

Pointing out that dick but legal political maneuvers isn't even comparable to enlisting the espionage and propaganda assets of a foreign power in an election is stubborn stupidity now?

In the context of "yeah, it's technically not a crime and they're Dems anyway so we're letting 'em pass -- and if you're not up with that we're gonna whatabout you hard" despite the full awareness that if GOP operatives cooked up that shit you'd all be screeching about it?

Yes. Yes, dammit. And you can't whatabout me to hell, for my anti-Trump and anti-GOP bonafides are long established, so either face up to the fact that this is an egregious ethical breach that can only further distort American democracy whatever its legality, or dance your partisan jig and alienate those fed up with Trump but can't see the party you support as a democratic alternative to Trump's authoritarianism.

No, we wouldn't. That shit happens literally all the time. "Ratfucking," as it is known in political parlance, is at least as old as the primary system. It's not some recent "distortion" of American democracy. It's been part of American democracy for a long time.

[Dahon]

I don't bloody care how recent or how long-standing an issue this is in the American political system. If the Democrats are going to pose as the antithesis of the deep rot that is the Trump administration the the GOP, they have to play the role to the bloody hilt, or risk being discredited themselves, and democracy with it.

[Dumb Ideologies]

The Russians only started interfering in politics because of their athletics drugs ban, now they can get back to cheaty-medalling in the usual places.

[Auze]

As recently as 2012 (and probably more recently, right up until November 2016), we were told, in response to fears of Russia, that "the 80s called, they want their Cold War back." So okay, fine, we look elsewhere. Maybe we look at China. Now half the country is Russian operatives apparently, if the prevailing narrative is to be believed. Now all of a sudden Russia is the big enemy and we need to declare war otherwise Blumpf is a Russian puppet.

If you think the Cold War actually ended, you're naive.

TBF, you'd be pretty hard pressed in the 90s to find any evidence that Russia could compete with the U.S., Considering they had trouble handling Tuvans.

[Pope Joan]

Investigate the DNC.

Sic the DOJ on them.

No, seriously.

[Valrifell]

Investigate the DNC.

Sic the DOJ on them.

No, seriously.

This wasn't illegal though. Just a shady byproduct of a very unfair law.

[Ifreann]

Investigate the DNC.

Sic the DOJ on them.

No, seriously.

Investigate them for what? There is no suggestion of any illegal activity here.

[Genivaria]

Yes lets equate this illegal, borderline treasonous action to a...not illegal at all action that both parties have been doing for decades.
This reeks of desperation.

[The Batorys]

I don't bloody care how recent or how long-standing an issue this is in the American political system. If the Democrats are going to pose as the antithesis of the deep rot that is the Trump administration the the GOP, they have to play the role to the bloody hilt, or risk being discredited themselves, and democracy with it.

Then you are all talk. Politics requires ruthlessness.

[Rectification Government]

If you think the Cold War actually ended, you're naive.

TBF, you'd be pretty hard pressed in the 90s to find any evidence that Russia could compete with the U.S., Considering they had trouble handling Tuvans.

Tannu what?

[Pope Joan]

Investigate the DNC.

Sic the DOJ on them.

No, seriously.

This wasn't illegal though. Just a shady byproduct of a very unfair law.

I am just playing the game du jour.

You would think this was the fifties and we were still worried about commies.

Personally, I think the Russians are more moral and upstanding than the Limies.

[Dahon]

I don't bloody care how recent or how long-standing an issue this is in the American political system. If the Democrats are going to pose as the antithesis of the deep rot that is the Trump administration the the GOP, they have to play the role to the bloody hilt, or risk being discredited themselves, and democracy with it.

Then you are all talk. Politics requires ruthlessness.

That serves no higher purpose than powermongering for fuck's sake.

[Liriena]

This has to be the saddest, most desperate thread in NSG history. A thread explicitly created as a lazy, politically motivated deflection tactic.

I guess shame is just anathema to conservatism today.

[Dahon]

This has to be the saddest, most desperate thread in NSG history. A thread explicitly created as a lazy, politically motivated deflection tactic.

I guess shame is just anathema to conservatism today.

On the contrary -- either the Democratic Party has to show precisely why it's the antithesis of the corruption and authoritarianism of Trump's GOP, or it might as well kiss the midterms and elections beyond goodbye, and the substance if not yet the form of American democracy along with it.