Entertainment and #MeToo

[Unstoppable Empire of Doom]

I don't think argento did anything wrong. The age of consent is a bit silly at times and I do not believe it was ever meant to protect a consenting 17 year old boy from sleeping with a model. It was meant to protect teenage girls from old men.

Yeah the nature of the age of consent is that beneath the barrier you are not consenting. Are we saying that as a matter of law teenage boys have better judgement than teenage girls?

No, I am saying that biologically and culturally boys and girls are different and thus to apply rules blindly without considering differences is foolish.

I did not know she had been as close as a mother to him since he was 7 or that she had gotten him drunk prior. I'll agree that changes things and retract my previous position.

On a tangent I really don't like her for playing up the media after Anthony died. Some people are really just obsessed with attention.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Yeah the nature of the age of consent is that beneath the barrier you are not consenting. Are we saying that as a matter of law teenage boys have better judgement than teenage girls?

No, I am saying that biologically and culturally boys and girls are different and thus to apply rules blindly without considering differences is foolish.

I did not know she had been as close as a mother to him since he was 7 or that she had gotten him drunk prior. I'll agree that changes things and retract my previous position.

On a tangent I really don't like her for playing up the media after Anthony died. Some people are really just obsessed with attention.

The issue is that grooming a young girl and grooming a young boy should pretty much be treated the same way. Biological differences aside, it is fucked up regardless.

[Costa Fierro]

No, I am saying that biologically and culturally boys and girls are different and thus to apply rules blindly without considering differences is foolish.

Suggesting biology is a reason that one is rape and one is not is absolute bullshit.

[Scomagia]

Where's the #MeToo mob on this one?
https://www.thedailybeast.com/asia-arge ... -was-raped

An alleged victim is handled in a pretty nasty fashion on television, to the point the host was implying it wasn't really rape, and is there an uproar? Nope. Crickets.

[Uiiop]

Where's the #MeToo mob on this one?
https://www.thedailybeast.com/asia-arge ... -was-raped

An alleged victim is handled in a pretty nasty fashion on television, to the point the host was implying it wasn't really rape, and is there an uproar? Nope. Crickets.

When as the last time Americans cared about Italian media?
Shit any non-English media unless they dunked a politician?

[Kvatchdom]

Where's the #MeToo mob on this one?
https://www.thedailybeast.com/asia-arge ... -was-raped

An alleged victim is handled in a pretty nasty fashion on television, to the point the host was implying it wasn't really rape, and is there an uproar? Nope. Crickets.

There's a mass of people attacking Asia Argento mate, not their fault you look at everything through ideological lenses.

[Costa Fierro]

Where's the #MeToo mob on this one?
https://www.thedailybeast.com/asia-arge ... -was-raped

An alleged victim is handled in a pretty nasty fashion on television, to the point the host was implying it wasn't really rape, and is there an uproar? Nope. Crickets.

There's a mass of people attacking Asia Argento mate, not their fault you look at everything through ideological lenses.

A "mass of people"?

[Kvatchdom]

There's a mass of people attacking Asia Argento mate, not their fault you look at everything through ideological lenses.

A "mass of people"?

Yes, people are at a great majority negatively perceiving her in social media. She raped a child, why the fuck would anyone side with her, especially since stuff like this is exactly why MeToo is important to so many people, so they can share these kinds of experiences.

[Costa Fierro]

She raped a child, why the fuck would anyone side with her, especially since stuff like this is exactly why MeToo is important to so many people, so they can share these kinds of experiences.

Same reason the same people have categorically denied that men can be raped, or be the victims of any kind of sexual crime.

[Hirota]

Where's the #MeToo mob on this one?
https://www.thedailybeast.com/asia-arge ... -was-raped

An alleged victim is handled in a pretty nasty fashion on television, to the point the host was implying it wasn't really rape, and is there an uproar? Nope. Crickets.

There's a mass of people attacking Asia Argento mate, not their fault you look at everything through ideological lenses.

Thats not quite what Scomagia was asking though is it. Scomagia is pointing out the victim blaming in this audience of Italians, and you responded by saying people are criticising Argento, whilst using that as a (fallacious) cudgel to accuse Scomagia of looking through lenses.

The two do not equate.

In response to Scomagia: I get the cynicism of the Italian audience. But I'm curious if they are only cynical because the alleged victim this time is a boy. But I also don't get why break the policy of silence on Italian television? Did he and his legal team think they'd get a fair showing on there? Makes no sense, and seems poorly thought out.

A "mass of people"?

Yes, people are at a great majority negatively perceiving her in social media. She raped a child, why the fuck would anyone side with her, especially since stuff like this is exactly why MeToo is important to so many people, so they can share these kinds of experiences.

Do you believing more or less people are "negatively perceiving her in social media" than Weinstein?

And for the record, I'll side with her until the day she is found guilty in a court of her peers. Blackstone's formulation applies, regardless of if you are an Italian actress or a Hollywood producer.

We shouldn't be perpetuating a witch hunt, regardless of gender or their politics.

[Chestaan]

I don't think argento did anything wrong. The age of consent is a bit silly at times and I do not believe it was ever meant to protect a consenting 17 year old boy from sleeping with a model. It was meant to protect teenage girls from old men.

The movement has done tremendous harm to some basically innocent people, and to many who have served their time and already made amends with society. However it has exposed far more and accomplished great strides in shedding light on the plight of many women. Overall the movement has been a good thing that some few have weaponised.

So what you are advocating for is a sexist interpretation of the law? And if the law wasn't meant to protect 17 year olds, the age of consent would be changed.

[Wallenburg]

I don't think argento did anything wrong. The age of consent is a bit silly at times and I do not believe it was ever meant to protect a consenting 17 year old boy from sleeping with a model. It was meant to protect teenage girls from old men.

Good to know you don't think boys should be protected from rape.

[Costa Fierro]

We shouldn't be perpetuating a witch hunt, regardless of gender or their politics.

Except this isn't a witch hunt. There is plenty of evidence that shows Argento committed, at the very least, statutory rape. All we have with Weinstein are allegations and one doctored video.

[The South Falls]

We shouldn't be perpetuating a witch hunt, regardless of gender or their politics.

Except this isn't a witch hunt. There is plenty of evidence that shows Argento committed, at the very least, statutory rape. All we have with Weinstein are allegations and one doctored video.

We have about the same amount of evidence for both.


Having a dick doesn't get you a pass.

Neither does having a vagina.

[Costa Fierro]

We have about the same amount of evidence for both.

Not really. We have text messages admitting some kind of sexual intercourse and a photo of the two of them in bed, plus an alleged "love note" written in what is clearly feminine handwriting. With Weinstein, we have accusations from several women (including Argento, who was one of the more vocal accusers) and a video recording that is very much missing a lot of context to the situation other than what has been deemed acceptable for dissemination to the media. As far as I am concerned, there's enough evidence there to indict Argento on statutory rape charges, even without the victim's own personal recollection.

[Scomagia]

There's a mass of people attacking Asia Argento mate, not their fault you look at everything through ideological lenses.

Thats not quite what Scomagia was asking though is it. Scomagia is pointing out the victim blaming in this audience of Italians, and you responded by saying people are criticising Argento, whilst using that as a (fallacious) cudgel to accuse Scomagia of looking through lenses.

The two do not equate.

In response to Scomagia: I get the cynicism of the Italian audience. But I'm curious if they are only cynical because the alleged victim this time is a boy. But I also don't get why break the policy of silence on Italian television? Did he and his legal team think they'd get a fair showing on there? Makes no sense, and seems poorly thought out.

Yes, people are at a great majority negatively perceiving her in social media. She raped a child, why the fuck would anyone side with her, especially since stuff like this is exactly why MeToo is important to so many people, so they can share these kinds of experiences.

Do you believing more or less people are "negatively perceiving her in social media" than Weinstein?

And for the record, I'll side with her until the day she is found guilty in a court of her peers. Blackstone's formulation applies, regardless of if you are an Italian actress or a Hollywood producer.

We shouldn't be perpetuating a witch hunt, regardless of gender or their politics.

Yes, you understood my motivations perfectly. Thanks for not assuming bad faith. My main qualm is that the #MeToo mob hasn't savaged the host which is inconsistent with their stated aims and motivations. The silence is deafening.

The decision to speak on Italian television is a bit puzzling. Seems weird but I don't know what to make of it, honestly.

[Kvatchdom]

Thats not quite what Scomagia was asking though is it. Scomagia is pointing out the victim blaming in this audience of Italians, and you responded by saying people are criticising Argento, whilst using that as a (fallacious) cudgel to accuse Scomagia of looking through lenses.

The two do not equate.

In response to Scomagia: I get the cynicism of the Italian audience. But I'm curious if they are only cynical because the alleged victim this time is a boy. But I also don't get why break the policy of silence on Italian television? Did he and his legal team think they'd get a fair showing on there? Makes no sense, and seems poorly thought out.
Do you believing more or less people are "negatively perceiving her in social media" than Weinstein?

And for the record, I'll side with her until the day she is found guilty in a court of her peers. Blackstone's formulation applies, regardless of if you are an Italian actress or a Hollywood producer.

We shouldn't be perpetuating a witch hunt, regardless of gender or their politics.

Yes, you understood my motivations perfectly. Thanks for not assuming bad faith. My main qualm is that the #MeToo mob hasn't savaged the host which is inconsistent with their stated aims and motivations. The silence is deafening.

The decision to speak on Italian television is a bit puzzling. Seems weird but I don't know what to make of it, honestly.

What is the MeToo mob? They're not really a movement, it's a twitter hashtag used by victims of sexual violence.

[Kaggeceria]

Accusations of rape and sexual assault have always been used as weapons to destroy the lives of men.

MeToo only made that problem worse.

[Hirota]

Yes, you understood my motivations perfectly. Thanks for not assuming bad faith. My main qualm is that the #MeToo mob hasn't savaged the host which is inconsistent with their stated aims and motivations. The silence is deafening.

The decision to speak on Italian television is a bit puzzling. Seems weird but I don't know what to make of it, honestly.

What is the MeToo mob? They're not really a movement,

Mob implies a faceless group with no organised leader. Gamergate (and I don't say that to start a threadjack) is a good example, as aside from a few e-celebs, there was/is no recognised leader. On one hand, that makes it easy to criticise as you can wheel out any old anonymous abuse and frame it as the faceless mobs fault. On the other, anonymous twitter accounts don't really prove anything beyond trolls will troll.

Metoo was a mob in so far that it is largely faceless, but has since been appropriated by actual celebrities for a hollywood witch hunt. That's fine, but when the ringleaders can be demonstrated to have dubious values surrounding their own sexual violence, then thats a problem for the movement that follows them.

it's a twitter hashtag used by victims of sexual violence.

Alleged Sexual violence. And also used by perpetrators of alleged sexual violence too, if you believe the allegations surrounding Argento and Christina Garcia - two of the main ringleaders of metoo in it's current incarnation.

[Hirota]

We shouldn't be perpetuating a witch hunt, regardless of gender or their politics.

Except this isn't a witch hunt. There is plenty of evidence that shows Argento committed, at the very least, statutory rape. All we have with Weinstein are allegations and one doctored video.

Even with that, even with all the other evidence that exists, I'm not going to start calling Argento guilty until she is found guilty by a court of her peers, just like Weinstein.

It would be hypocritical to criticise metoo of being a witch hunt, whilst brandishing pitchforks hunting down Italian Actresses. Either we indulge in this dangerous game where an allegation equates to guilt in all cases, where we see sexual assault allegations (unfounded or otherwise) being used as weapons being used for political and personal gain, or we stick with due process, the presumption of innocence as not just a legal principle, but a way to conduct ones self in political and private life. I'll choose the latter.

[Costa Fierro]

It's not all Italian actresses, it's just Argento.

[Knask]

We have about the same amount of evidence for both.

Not really. We have text messages admitting some kind of sexual intercourse and a photo of the two of them in bed, plus an alleged "love note" written in what is clearly feminine handwriting.

Are you mocking Bennet for his handwriting too now? That's a dick move.

[Costa Fierro]

Not really. We have text messages admitting some kind of sexual intercourse and a photo of the two of them in bed, plus an alleged "love note" written in what is clearly feminine handwriting.

Are you mocking Bennet for his handwriting too now? That's a dick move.

That's grasping at straws. "Clearly feminine handwriting" implies that he did not write the note himself, and that it was written by Argento as an attempt to claim that he "wanted it".

[Hirota]

Are you mocking Bennet for his handwriting too now? That's a dick move.

That's grasping at straws. "Clearly feminine handwriting" implies that he did not write the note himself, and that it was written by Argento as an attempt to claim that he "wanted it".

And victim blaming too, by metoo logic.

But this is Knask we are talking about here, always obsessed with trying to make clever snarky points, only to fail miserably and come across with very very stupid ones instead.

[Wallenburg]

Accusations of rape and sexual assault have always been used as weapons to destroy the lives of men.

MeToo only made that problem worse.

[citation needed]