The Warhammer 40.000/Fantasy Discussion Thread Mk.II

[The Imperial Reach]

Slaanesh isn't that difficult to work with. He/she/it is the Prince of Pleasure, not just sex, even if that is what everybody thinks of first. So long as they just kept the lewdness to a minimum, they could pull off more Slaaneshi stuff in terms of both fluff and media.

For Tzeentch you just need a good writer, preferably one who can write a story backwards - from finish to start - so that they ultimately know which direction they're headed and know best how they can get there. If you know how you want your story to end, then writing the rest of it is a cake-walk, and this is probably the best option for writing Tzeentch.
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Honestly I wasn't thiinking of lewdness, rather of writing. In their fluff (some books aside), GW seems more interesting in writing Chaos Gods as straight, simple demon-like baddies with their hordes of minions : this role works well for Khorne, a bit less for Nurgle, and clearly not for Tzeentch and Slaanesh, which are actually pretty ambiguous, morally grey gods if you think about it. (Not saying it's not the case of Khorne and Nurgle but it's easier to play the CHAOTIC EVIL VILLAIN part with them).

I don't see how. Slaanesh is pretty rapey and basically encourages self-destructive tendencies while Tzeentch just likes making everybody miserable by fucking up everything they do just for shits and giggles. That's pretty chaotic evil to me.

[The Biggles Syndicate]

Yup nurgle is most definitely the current chaos poster boy.
He even has zombies and everything.

Especially with his "Scourge Stars" thing, and how he is somewhat more involved in the new storyline.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Slaanesh isn't that difficult to work with. He/she/it is the Prince of Pleasure, not just sex, even if that is what everybody thinks of first. So long as they just kept the lewdness to a minimum, they could pull off more Slaaneshi stuff in terms of both fluff and media.

For Tzeentch you just need a good writer, preferably one who can write a story backwards - from finish to start - so that they ultimately know which direction they're headed and know best how they can get there. If you know how you want your story to end, then writing the rest of it is a cake-walk, and this is probably the best option for writing Tzeentch.
.

Honestly I wasn't thiinking of lewdness, rather of writing. In their fluff (some books aside), GW seems more interesting in writing Chaos Gods as straight, simple demon-like baddies with their hordes of minions : this role works well for Khorne, a bit less for Nurgle, and clearly not for Tzeentch and Slaanesh, which are actually pretty ambiguous, morally grey gods if you think about it. (Not saying it's not the case of Khorne and Nurgle but it's easier to play the CHAOTIC EVIL VILLAIN part with them).

Slaanesh and Tzeentch are definitely not morally grey (Assuming we're talking from the perspective of anybody who isn't Chaos). The former actively encourages moral degradation; the latter values nothing but what is key to his schemes.

[Tethys 13]

The Chaos gods aren't meant to be entirely evil, since they are supposed to represent all emotion, but flat baddies are easier.

I ended up writing my own setting and homebrew rules for Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay (16,000 words of them...) for the player characters to move on to rather than Age of Sigmar, and one of the key points of that setting was that during the death of the old world the old Gods had given their lives to shatter the Chaos Gods, so most of their power was scattered (and became 'aspects' that bound themselves to appropriate hosts, not good or evil on their own) while the Chaos Gods themselves remained as the core formed from the beliefs of their followers, so they truly could be fully evil, but wouldn't be as powerful. It gave me more options for developing the setting, as it avoided the "Chaos is just always going to win because hacks" nonsense that the End Times devolved into.

[Varangian Rus]

Hey all, I've recently been getting back into warhammer (having not thought much about it for ~15yrs), and have been really enjoying the 40k setting. I have a couple questions regarding the books.

On the recommendation of a friend, I picked up the first two books of the Horus Heresy series; finished and loved the first, half-way through the second, liking but not loving it.

Seeing the ending of the book approaching, I am trying to decide where to go from here. Is the entire Horus Heresy series worth reading? Are there "core" books in the series that I could hit, while retaining an overall sense of the series (52 books is kind of a lot...)

From my small sample alone, I am noticing how important the author is. Should I just look for Dan Abnett? I have heard Eisenhorn is worth checking out, too.

I am highly interested in the Beast Arises series -- Orcs and Goblins was my main army back in the day, even if they were the fantasy-version, I still gravitate toward their goofy dark humor and bizarre aesthetic, and I think their 40k equivalents may be even better (they're kind of proto-steampunk, in a way). Is this series worth reading? In whole, or in part (12 books is a little more reasonable)?

Thanks for any advice you can provide. Been lurking on this forum for awhile now, and this seemed like a knowledgeable place to seek answers. Cheers

[The Empire of Pretantia]

The Chaos gods aren't meant to be entirely evil,

Yeah they are.

[The Imperial Reach]

Hey all, I've recently been getting back into warhammer (having not thought much about it for ~15yrs), and have been really enjoying the 40k setting. I have a couple questions regarding the books.

On the recommendation of a friend, I picked up the first two books of the Horus Heresy series; finished and loved the first, half-way through the second, liking but not loving it.

Seeing the ending of the book approaching, I am trying to decide where to go from here. Is the entire Horus Heresy series worth reading? Are there "core" books in the series that I could hit, while retaining an overall sense of the series (52 books is kind of a lot...)

From my small sample alone, I am noticing how important the author is. Should I just look for Dan Abnett? I have heard Eisenhorn is worth checking out, too.

I am highly interested in the Beast Arises series -- Orcs and Goblins was my main army back in the day, even if they were the fantasy-version, I still gravitate toward their goofy dark humor and bizarre aesthetic, and I think their 40k equivalents may be even better (they're kind of proto-steampunk, in a way). Is this series worth reading? In whole, or in part (12 books is a little more reasonable)?

Thanks for any advice you can provide. Been lurking on this forum for awhile now, and this seemed like a knowledgeable place to seek answers. Cheers

Haven't read any of the books, but from what I've learned Dan Abnett is essentially Jesus while C.S. Goto is Satan. Take that as you will.

[Northern Poland]

Hey all, I've recently been getting back into warhammer (having not thought much about it for ~15yrs), and have been really enjoying the 40k setting. I have a couple questions regarding the books.

On the recommendation of a friend, I picked up the first two books of the Horus Heresy series; finished and loved the first, half-way through the second, liking but not loving it.

Seeing the ending of the book approaching, I am trying to decide where to go from here. Is the entire Horus Heresy series worth reading? Are there "core" books in the series that I could hit, while retaining an overall sense of the series (52 books is kind of a lot...)

From my small sample alone, I am noticing how important the author is. Should I just look for Dan Abnett? I have heard Eisenhorn is worth checking out, too.

I am highly interested in the Beast Arises series -- Orcs and Goblins was my main army back in the day, even if they were the fantasy-version, I still gravitate toward their goofy dark humor and bizarre aesthetic, and I think their 40k equivalents may be even better (they're kind of proto-steampunk, in a way). Is this series worth reading? In whole, or in part (12 books is a little more reasonable)?

Thanks for any advice you can provide. Been lurking on this forum for awhile now, and this seemed like a knowledgeable place to seek answers. Cheers

Haven't read any of the books, but from what I've learned Dan Abnett is essentially Jesus while C.S. Goto is Satan. Take that as you will.

read the books, really good!

[The Imperial Reach]

Haven't read any of the books, but from what I've learned Dan Abnett is essentially Jesus while C.S. Goto is Satan. Take that as you will.

read the books, really good!

Books cost money, money requires a job, and I've been unemployed for 4 months now.

[Balican]

-snip-

Haven't read any of the books, but from what I've learned Dan Abnett is essentially Jesus while C.S. Goto is Satan. Take that as you will.

From what I've read and heard, Steve Lyons is also a pretty good author. I really liked Dead Men Walking and am going to be acquiring Down Amongst the Dead Men next.

[Varangian Rus]

Thanks for the info guys.

I'll check out that Steve Lyons and add him onto my list of 40k authors to watch out for. Necrons are quite interesting, and I know next to nothing about the Death Korps.

[The Imperial Reach]

Thanks for the info guys.

I'll check out that Steve Lyons and add him onto my list of 40k authors to watch out for. Necrons are quite interesting, and I know next to nothing about the Death Korps.

The only thing you need to know about the Death Korps of Krieg is that they're born to die for the Emperor and that they do a damn good job of it.

[Northern Davincia]

The Chaos gods aren't meant to be entirely evil,

Yeah they are.

Papa Nurgle is a swell guy, though. He doesn't have an evil cyst throughout his body.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Yeah they are.

Papa Nurgle is a swell guy, though. He doesn't have an evil cyst throughout his body.

If a fat sickly kidnapper forcefed me syphilis I wouldn't call him a swell guy.

[Northern Davincia]

Papa Nurgle is a swell guy, though. He doesn't have an evil cyst throughout his body.

If a fat sickly kidnapper forcefed me syphilis I wouldn't call him a swell guy.

Odds are your tongue will be too swollen to speak, but on the bright side, your point of view changes significantly after getting all that syphilis.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

If a fat sickly kidnapper forcefed me syphilis I wouldn't call him a swell guy.

Odds are your tongue will be too swollen to speak, but on the bright side, your point of view changes significantly after getting all that syphilis.

Stockholm Syndrome tends to do that.

[Tethys 13]

The Chaos gods aren't meant to be entirely evil,

Yeah they are.

Oh my, your eloquent and thorough argument has utterly convinced me. Maximum sarcasm

EDIT: My apologies, I am particularly snarky when I've just woken up.
This video does a good job of explaining my point, but in summary, it is as I said - by the lore they shouldn't be utterly evil because that'd mean all humans are always utterly evil, but because A. the warp is so messed up due to things like the War in Heaven and B. it is easier for the writers, they are portrayed as utterly evil.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Yeah they are.

Oh my, your eloquent and thorough argument has utterly convinced me. Maximum sarcasm

EDIT: My apologies, I am particularly snarky when I've just woken up.
This video does a good job of explaining my point, but in summary, it is as I said - by the lore they shouldn't be utterly evil because that'd mean all humans are always utterly evil, but because A. the warp is so messed up due to things like the War in Heaven and B. it is easier for the writers, they are portrayed as utterly evil.

They are utterly evil. There is no other way to describe gods of murder, disease, hedonism, and lies.

[Tethys 13]

They are utterly evil. There is no other way to describe gods of murder, disease, hedonism, and lies.

I see. You are one who ignores what others are saying rather than considering their points and providing actual counterarguments. There is no point in continuing this, since you choose to be incapable of discussing the matter. This saddens me, but I'll have forgotten it before long.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

They are utterly evil. There is no other way to describe gods of murder, disease, hedonism, and lies.

I see. You are one who ignores what others are saying rather than considering their points and providing actual counterarguments. There is no point in continuing this, since you choose to be incapable of discussing the matter. This saddens me, but I'll have forgotten it before long.

Melodramatic much?

I mean Jesus Christ, you're saying this after you cited a meme as your argument.

[Isilanka]

I mean there's a potential interpretation that Chaos Gods aren't inherently evil, it's the fact that galaxy is a cesspit of war, violence and intolerance that fuels their current attitude, in a particularily shitty vicious circle.
I have to admit I kinda like considering Chaos Gods as neutral natural entities that adapt to the fact that the 40K galaxy is essentially made of utter assholes. It plays well in 40K's overarching theme of decaying societies and failing civilisations. "It's the fault of evulz chaos gods" has much less symbolic weight and is much more mundane than "it's our fault, they're just reflecting what we are".

But then this theory doesn't really work with lore like the fall of the Eldar, so, whatever. I still kinda like it.

[Hurdergaryp]

I mean there's a potential interpretation that Chaos Gods aren't inherently evil, it's the fact that galaxy is a cesspit of war, violence and intolerance that fuels their current attitude, in a particularily shitty vicious circle.
I have to admit I kinda like considering Chaos Gods as neutral natural entities that adapt to the fact that the 40K galaxy is essentially made of utter assholes. It plays well in 40K's overarching theme of decaying societies and failing civilisations. "It's the fault of evulz chaos gods" has much less symbolic weight and is much more mundane than "it's our fault, they're just reflecting what we are".

But then this theory doesn't really work with lore like the fall of the Eldar, so, whatever. I still kinda like it.

Hey, the Eldar overdid that debauchery thing they had going, resulting in everyone's favorite Chaos God, the ever-flexible Slaanesh. Is it Slaanesh's fault that the overwhelming majority of the Eldar decided to follow a lifestyle that would make marquis De Sade's classic works look like bedtime stories for toddlers in comparison?

[The Imperial Reach]

They are utterly evil. There is no other way to describe gods of murder, disease, hedonism, and lies.

I see. You are one who ignores what others are saying rather than considering their points and providing actual counterarguments. There is no point in continuing this, since you choose to be incapable of discussing the matter. This saddens me, but I'll have forgotten it before long.

Just put him on your foes list. It's what I did. One-liner 'arguments' that don't amount to much more than "Your wrong." with no further explanation get tiresome after a while.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

I see. You are one who ignores what others are saying rather than considering their points and providing actual counterarguments. There is no point in continuing this, since you choose to be incapable of discussing the matter. This saddens me, but I'll have forgotten it before long.

Just put him on your foes list. It's what I did. One-liner 'arguments' that don't amount to much more than "Your wrong." with no further explanation get tiresome after a while.

That you can't handle succinctness is your fault, not mine.

[Hurdergaryp]

Quick question: should I be triggered, t r i g g e r e d, TRIGGERED or tRigGerEd?