What was the point of "males make the first move" anyway?

[Costa Fierro]

Statistically speaking, it's more dangerous to be a man than a woman.

To the OP, it's a bullshit social norm that needs to be eliminated. It's probably based in reactionary values with regards to men being viewed as having to be "assertive" or "strong" in order to be considered manly, and where women being viewed as not having agency. Shy or socially anxious men are particularly screwed over by this.

I'd say it's more of a biological thing that's integrated deeply into society.

[Chestaan]

Statistically speaking, it's more dangerous to be a man than a woman.

To the OP, it's a bullshit social norm that needs to be eliminated. It's probably based in reactionary values with regards to men being viewed as having to be "assertive" or "strong" in order to be considered manly, and where women being viewed as not having agency. Shy or socially anxious men are particularly screwed over by this.

I'd say it's more of a biological thing that's integrated deeply into society.

Evolution, and indeed deeply ingrained economic reasons, no doubt play a role. That doesn't mean that it can't or shouldn't be changed,

[Cedoria]

You sort of just need to not be a dick. Just seems some people find that really hard to do.

The real question we should be asking is why do people feel the need to act like dicks? Especially in a time where no one cares.

Dicks will be dicks, in any age. No point in wondering too deeply about it.

[Dumb Ideologies]

It's not even an attempt at "being witty". You just display a profound lack of knowledge on this subject, and that's unsurprising considering your avatar.

It's a dice roll to get the waifu-related IQ-boost and invitation to ANIMENSA.

[The New California Republic]

More fun when it is just men involved, it is open season on who makes the first move.

[Costa Fierro]

I'd say it's more of a biological thing that's integrated deeply into society.

Evolution, and indeed deeply ingrained economic reasons, no doubt play a role. That doesn't mean that it can't or shouldn't be changed,

I'm not saying it shouldn't be changed, but I'm inclined to believe it can't.

[New haven america]

1. I would try to come up with a rebuttal, but your consistent failure at wit is funnier than anything I could come up with.

1. It's not even an attempt at "being witty". You just display a profound lack of knowledge on this subject, and that's unsurprising considering your avatar.

2. You're just jealous cause my girls are fine AF~

2. Nah man they look kind of juvenile and it's bit creepy.

1. And here he comes to prove my point, just in time. Someone's getting a bit testy now~
2. "And here we see denial, a common trait among infant Closeted Anime Fans. But soon he will enter his metamorphosis and we will see if he turns into The Memer, or The Collector."

[New haven america]

Evolution, and indeed deeply ingrained economic reasons, no doubt play a role. That doesn't mean that it can't or shouldn't be changed,

I'm not saying it shouldn't be changed, but I'm inclined to believe it can't.

Because you're not trying hard enough.

[Chestaan]

Evolution, and indeed deeply ingrained economic reasons, no doubt play a role. That doesn't mean that it can't or shouldn't be changed,

I'm not saying it shouldn't be changed, but I'm inclined to believe it can't.

I get you man, I really do. I often look at things like this, the way things are and the huge opposition to change and I lose heart. Sometimes I think it would be just better to forget about it and not care. Others I am more optimistic, but its not easy to keep positive.

[Ethel mermania]

I don't think anyone is pushing for a 0.00 to do anything, but it is better to be cautious around alcohol. There are some serious legal ramifications when booze comes into play in larger quantities.

"In large quantities" is obvious. Ethel was talking about a cocktail.

In terms of the pineapple margarita, no. It's the shared experience of making something out of the ordinary for her, that is delicious, fun, and has a little kick. 3 drinks is not blackout drunk, 15 is.

[Ethel mermania]

As with Deism, the Supreme Being is the First Mover.

Sadly God has never helped me get laid, and tbh he is more like a cock block.....


Then again repressed Catholic girls are truly a gift from the lord.... So maybe you have a point.

[Costa Fierro]

Because you're not trying hard enough.

Well no, it's basically suggesting that we do away with millions of years of evolution and biological programming because we want the pretty girls to talk to us. It seems like a colossal waste of time and energy going against biology. Males of most species simply have to "prove their worth" to females in order to get to mate. Not all males get to mate at all, not all males get to mate frequently. That's how nature works.

[Costa Fierro]

I feel conflicted about this social norm. Right now, society is at a point of considerable concern regarding men who "make the first move" to a point bordering on harassment.

It's not that society is concerned with who made the first move at all, rather it's essentially inconvenient or uncomfortable truths being shoved into the spotlight. Dating and courtship has changed immensely over the last decade, with the advent of easier ways for people to sort through potential candidates. This hasn't created a new generation of shallow people whose mate selection is made purely on looks, but rather accentuated what was always underlying in terms of what men and what women wanted in potential mates. Such preferences are now deemed to be more and more acceptable and these have been transferred from the virtual world into the physical one. Not that undesirable people had basic courtesies to rely upon, rejection for them was and will always be a constant.

There's a certain damned if you do, damned if you don't for how bold to be, at each stage of the game, depending upon when or where or with whom.

There is, in a sense that we're getting conflicting messages about what is acceptable and what isn't acceptable for men, and both the groups doing the yelling getting angry that men are confused. Small wonder a lot of men simply don't believe it's worth their time and money anymore.

Secondly, one argument I've seen for it elsewhere is that girls will get flirted with so often they'll be used to it no matter what, while flirting from girls will mostly be directed at a few guys, with many left out of it altogether.

I've seen that argument many times. It has some merit.

[Great Precision]

An Irish girl I used to know told me that the situation is reversed in Ireland: there, women are the ones who normally initiate things. It's very common for a lady to just waltz up to a man in a pub and pick him up.

Then, she also told me that on buses in Ireland, even if there is only a single passenger on the bus, the next person to board will likely sit down right next to them, even though the entire rest of the bus is empty.

Things are different in Ireland, apparently...

[Albrenia]

An Irish girl I used to know told me that the situation is reversed in Ireland: there, women are the ones who normally initiate things. It's very common for a lady to just waltz up to a man in a pub and pick him up.

Then, she also told me that on buses in Ireland, even if there is only a single passenger on the bus, the next person to board will likely sit down right next to them, even though the entire rest of the bus is empty.

Things are different in Ireland, apparently...

Hopefully the Gentleman's Code in Public Bathrooms is still adhered to, even on the Emerald Isle.

[Great Precision]

Hopefully the Gentleman's Code in Public Bathrooms is still adhered to, even on the Emerald Isle.

God, you're right, I wish I had thought to ask.

Then again, how would she know?

[Albrenia]

Hopefully the Gentleman's Code in Public Bathrooms is still adhered to, even on the Emerald Isle.

God, you're right, I wish I had thought to ask.

Then again, how would she know?

...a fucking good point I appear to have overlooked.

[Uxupox]

just take two shots of rum and be done with it.

You've said that before. It still doesn't work.

you are not drinking enough.

[Page]

It's just an outdated gender norm that can be done away with. Really all gender norms can be done away with.

[Dumb Ideologies]

It's just an outdated gender norm that can be done away with. Really all gender norms can be done away with.

Who will do this doing away with and where are jobs posted in the social engineering sector?

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

Well, women are responsible for a lot of this as well.

They're either scared of rejection and want the guy to make the first move so they don't have to deal with that fear (Even though guy's are usually just as scared or anxious as they are), or they want to give themselves an out incase things don't go as planned, so instead of actually making moves they drop hints as an invitation for someone they like to ask them out, even though hints are fucking stupid and rarely work.

So yeah, both sides are to blame for this for unique and equally problematic reasons.

If you can read social cues you can usually tell. If you're not good at that, and a lot of guys are (at least at first) then I'm sorry for u son.

Are you kidding? Body language is not universal. Social cues are not universal. They vary. And if people guess wrong they can be met not with mere "rejection" (like hell that's what people were afraid of; those who made it out to be were wrong about everything else) but with an "I can't act friendly without you taking it for flirting" reaction that can spread through town via rumour.

Never. Leave. Things. Open. To. Interpretation.

And if these social norms really are based on thinking it's wrong "for a woman to pick her man," then it's already been violated by flirting with the man she picked.

[Godular]

I had a long dissertation about social mores and cultural upbringing, then I realized it could be boiled down to:

‘It would be real nice if people just talked to each other.’

Ya’d think asking a person in a bar a couple questions to start things off wouldn’t be a gender specific thing, but if it’s a struggle maybe think about a different approach? Aren’t dating websites getting a bit more traction nowadays?

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

I had a long dissertation about social mores and cultural upbringing, then I realized it could be boiled down to:

‘It would be real nice if people just talked to each other.’

Ya’d think asking a person in a bar a couple questions to start things off wouldn’t be a gender specific thing, but if it’s a struggle maybe think about a different approach? Aren’t dating websites getting a bit more traction nowadays?

To use such a depraved cesspool of a medium as the Internet for dating purposes is bizarre. We're synonymous with debate, because how depraved one is has no bearing on whether or not one's right, but "dating?" That's more dicey. If we're resorting to the Internet, then something went wrong in the real world.

While child support law may make it impractical, one thing I respect about high school dating is that dozens of teenagers are among the same group of people several hours a day and still manage to pick one who just stands out to them.

[Godular]

I had a long dissertation about social mores and cultural upbringing, then I realized it could be boiled down to:

‘It would be real nice if people just talked to each other.’

Ya’d think asking a person in a bar a couple questions to start things off wouldn’t be a gender specific thing, but if it’s a struggle maybe think about a different approach? Aren’t dating websites getting a bit more traction nowadays?

To use such a depraved cesspool of a medium as the Internet for dating purposes is bizarre. We're synonymous with debate, because how depraved one is has no bearing on whether or not one's right, but "dating?" That's more dicey. If we're resorting to the Internet, then something went wrong in the real world.

While child support law may make it impractical, one thing I respect about high school dating is that dozens of teenagers are among the same group of people several hours a day and still manage to pick one who just stands out to them.

Those kids grow up with the advantage of a roughly uniform set of social mores. Once you get out of that box, everything goes out the window.

Also: given how much people are glued to their phones in public, I’m more surprised that you’d find the idea of internet socialization (inclusive of dating) to be such insanity. Unless I misread your post.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

Gender roles are absurd and arbitrary, and looks OP felt the pinch of patriarchy.

Tell me more specifically what it is you claim to know about me.