Gun storage dilemma

[Kash Island]

who are you to decide what is and is not responsible? I have no children and my husband and I are aware/educated on firearms.

Let me tell you a tale of little Alex, 15 year old poor kid
In an attempt to make some extra cash one summer I worked with a guy who did interior decorating, and I just kinda was moving stuff for him. Now I had to pull something out the closet of of customer so that we use it. I knocked down an unassuming cardboard box. When it fell in the floor, a loud bang rang out. Fortunately the bullet went no where near me, but it seemed mr customer forgot the safety.
Moral of the story, accidents happen, it’s better to keep things where accidents are a severe problem should be kept safely
My households guns are held in a safe, because that is, no pun intended, the safest place to put them

forgot the saftey I'm sorry....WHAT?

either the gun did not have a drop safety installed/and or failed(which is highly unlikley) or you pulled the trigger of the firearm.

sorry, story is whack and saying "forgot the saftey" really puts into question your knowledge of firearms.

[New Frenco Empire]

But, what a lot of people have been suggesting, having all your guns unlocked and out is stupid.

Who suggested that?

[Andsed]

We don't have to force people to lock up their weapons. But, it's for the best if they do.

Keeping a defense weapon in a secure, child-proof area is great.

But, what a lot of people have been suggesting, having all your guns unlocked and out is stupid.

Kids kill themselves and others with those guns.

Very few of us are saying we should keep guns unlocked and out what were saying is if someone takes your gun you should not be legally responsible unless it is a kid and you are the legal guardian of that kid.

Fair enough, but a legal requirement would either be impossible to enforce or way too intrusive. Probably a mix of both.

Totally for readily-accessible educational resources on responsible storage, though. Those are good.

That’s all I want
If we’re gonna be a country of armed citizens let’s at least be smart citizens

Agreed.

[The South Falls]

Fair enough, but a legal requirement would either be impossible to enforce or way too intrusive. Probably a mix of both.

Totally for readily-accessible educational resources on responsible storage, though. Those are good.

That’s all I want
If we’re gonna be a country of armed citizens let’s at least be smart citizens

Honestly we should require a little training before gun use.

[Kash Island]

That’s all I want
If we’re gonna be a country of armed citizens let’s at least be smart citizens

Honestly we should require a little training before gun use.

does freedom of speech require training?

[Internationalist Bastard]

Let me tell you a tale of little Alex, 15 year old poor kid
In an attempt to make some extra cash one summer I worked with a guy who did interior decorating, and I just kinda was moving stuff for him. Now I had to pull something out the closet of of customer so that we use it. I knocked down an unassuming cardboard box. When it fell in the floor, a loud bang rang out. Fortunately the bullet went no where near me, but it seemed mr customer forgot the safety.
Moral of the story, accidents happen, it’s better to keep things where accidents are a severe problem should be kept safely
My households guns are held in a safe, because that is, no pun intended, the safest place to put them

forgot the saftey I'm sorry....WHAT?

either the gun did not have a drop safety installed/and or failed(which is highly unlikley) or you pulled the trigger of the firearm.

sorry, story is whack and saying "forgot the saftey" really puts into question your knowledge of firearms.

You do know not all guns have drops, right?

[Sovaal]

That’s all I want
If we’re gonna be a country of armed citizens let’s at least be smart citizens

Honestly we should require a little training before gun use.

Define "little".

[Kash Island]

forgot the saftey I'm sorry....WHAT?

either the gun did not have a drop safety installed/and or failed(which is highly unlikley) or you pulled the trigger of the firearm.

sorry, story is whack and saying "forgot the saftey" really puts into question your knowledge of firearms.

You do know not all guns have drops, right?

you mean "drop saftey's"

yes I am well aware, but most modern firearms do.

Firearm without drop safteys are normally either very poorley constructed or older weapons.

so it sounds like you pulled the trigger of the weapon on accident or something.

[Andsed]

That’s all I want
If we’re gonna be a country of armed citizens let’s at least be smart citizens

Honestly we should require a little training before gun use.

TBH I agree with this. As Internationalist Bastard said. "If we’re gonna be a country of armed citizens let’s at least be smart citizens."

Honestly we should require a little training before gun use.

does freedom of speech require training?

That is a weak argument since freedom of speech does not harm anyone.

[The South Falls]

Honestly we should require a little training before gun use.

does freedom of speech require training?

Back at it again with this.

How does a few short classes (free, mind you) hurt you so much?

Honestly we should require a little training before gun use.

Define "little".

Basic classes. Just a few hours of it. Nothing like a driving test.

[Sovaal]

Honestly we should require a little training before gun use.

TBH I agree with this. As Internationalist Bastard said. "If we’re gonna be a country of armed citizens let’s at least be smart citizens."

does freedom of speech require training?

That is a weak argument since freedom of speech does not harm anyone.

Iunno, plenty of radicals out there. Words have power.

[Kash Island]

Honestly we should require a little training before gun use.

TBH I agree with this. As Internationalist Bastard said. "If we’re gonna be a country of armed citizens let’s at least be smart citizens."

does freedom of speech require training?

That is a weak argument since freedom of speech does not harm anyone.

the right to bear arms dosn't harm anyone either, firearms are inanimate objects, only individuals are held responsible.

[Chestaan]

So then, what the hell is your argument?! All I've got so far is something vaguely about private property. Then something about hammers.

That victims shouldn't be blamed for the actions of criminals, pretty cut and dry.

The thing is, there's two crimes involved here. One is the theft of the gun, and the other is murder. Though you are desperately trying to tie this to blaming rape victims for their own rape, its not the same at all. Even if a rape victim was responsible for their own rape, which obviously they are 100% not responsible, the only person who was hurt by it was the rape victim themselves. Whereas in the gun case, a third party, the murder victim, is harmed.

You've already made an exception to private property for the children issue, and you've said that you're not in favour of absolute private property rights. I put it to you, that if you do something in your own private property that harms someone else against their will, you should not be allowed to do it. This is why we mandate that people buy car insurance, because while the car is yours, and you own it, the potential to harm others is there and must be guarded against.

[Kash Island]

does freedom of speech require training?

Back at it again with this.

How does a few short classes (free, mind you) hurt you so much?

Define "little".

Basic classes. Just a few hours of it. Nothing like a driving test.

if the state pays for the training then sure.

[The Two Jerseys]

Honestly we should require a little training before gun use.

Define "little".

Infantry squad tactics.

[Internationalist Bastard]

You do know not all guns have drops, right?

you mean "drop saftey's"

yes I am well aware, but most modern firearms do.

Firearm without drop safteys are normally either very poorley constructed or older weapons.

so it sounds like you pulled the trigger of the weapon on accident or something.

It was a revolver, it genuinely might not have even had a saftey

[Kash Island]

That victims shouldn't be blamed for the actions of criminals, pretty cut and dry.

The thing is, there's two crimes involved here. One is the theft of the gun, and the other is murder. Though you are desperately trying to tie this to blaming rape victims for their own rape, its not the same at all. Even if a rape victim was responsible for their own rape, which obviously they are 100% not responsible, the only person who was hurt by it was the rape victim themselves. Whereas in the gun case, a third party, the murder victim, is harmed.

You've already made an exception to private property for the children issue, and you've said that you're not in favour of absolute private property rights. I put it to you, that if you do something in your own private property that harms someone else against their will, you should not be allowed to do it. This is why we mandate that people buy car insurance, because while the car is yours, and you own it, the potential to harm others is there and must be guarded against.

I actually didn't make the rape victim arguement... soooo.....

[Sovaal]

Back at it again with this.

How does a few short classes (free, mind you) hurt you so much?

Basic classes. Just a few hours of it. Nothing like a driving test.

if the state pays for the training then sure.

^

[The South Falls]

Back at it again with this.

How does a few short classes (free, mind you) hurt you so much?

Basic classes. Just a few hours of it. Nothing like a driving test.

if the state pays for the training then sure.

Yes.

I'm not legally able to fuck the lower class yet, y'all know me!

[Kash Island]

you mean "drop saftey's"

yes I am well aware, but most modern firearms do.

Firearm without drop safteys are normally either very poorley constructed or older weapons.

so it sounds like you pulled the trigger of the weapon on accident or something.

It was a revolver, it genuinely might not have even had a saftey

okay, so it is a weapon malfunction then, not the owners fault.

then again you were 15 at the time, so there some grey area since you were a minor at the time.

[The South Falls]

Define "little".

Infantry squad tactics.

Maybe not. Let's not have SPARTA.

[Sovaal]

if the state pays for the training then sure.

Yes.

I'm not legally able to fuck the lower class yet, y'all know me!

Eh, not enough tundra for all the gulags we'll need. I say we invade Canada for good measure.

[Internationalist Bastard]

It was a revolver, it genuinely might not have even had a saftey

okay, so it is a weapon malfunction then, not the owners fault.

then again you were 15 at the time, so there some grey area since you were a minor at the time.

I was literally saying I was an accident

[Albrenia]

As I said before I'm not pro-gun at all, but even I'd be cool with people getting free lessons paid for by the state or whatever when they get their first gun.

[Crockerland]

I find it a little hard to be sympathetic to those whores who facilitate rape by wearing skimpy outfits, they were askin' fer it by wearin' those clothes if ya ask me.

-Boomer_4_Santorum

Oh please. Absolute reactionary bullshit. If we're not going to engage in good faith then let me ask you why don't you care about people being gunned down by guns stolen from legal owners?

Do you legitimately not understand that pointing out a problem, suggesting a radical position (IE: hold gun owners responsible for any crime committed with their gun), and then claiming that someone not supporting your radical solution means they don't care about the victims is asinine? I understand you are attempting to intentionally, specifically not argue in good faith, but it's hard to tell what's meant to be over-exaggerated sarcasm and what's not when you say things like "[burglarly victims] facilitate murder by leaving their guns lying around," "I fail to see how holding gun owners responsible for their guns is an unreasonable stance," or "Bring in a law that says that the legal owner of a gun is responsible for any crime committed with it."

As to your actual "argument", several things. The victim of rape is the one who is raped. The victim of a murder carried out by a legal weapon is the person who was murdered. There's also no proven link between skimpy clothes and rape but there is a proven link between murder and stolen guns.

In any case, your comparison of a rape victim and someone being asked to lock their gun up is absurd and minimises the crime of rape. Now if a gun owner, having taken all precautions and locking their gun up, and it was still stolen that's something different and they shouldn't be held responsible.

It seems like you don't understand that comparing things and claiming them to be equivalent are different concepts. Anyways, that last one is a directly contradictory to everything you've said so far. I'm glad you've backpedaled into a more sensible position than

Bring in a law that says that the legal owner of a gun is responsible for any crime committed with it. They'll lock them up then.

But demanding that all guns be locked up 24/7 in a safe when not in use and gun owners who do not keep them in such positions be charged if their guns are used in crimes is pretty ridiculous. Let me ask you:
Should a police officer who is robbed of his weapons at gunpoint also be charged?
If someone breaks into my house, steals my axe, and then murders someone with it, should I be charged?

Your position comes with some pretty strange double standards unless you want to advocate police disarmament and only allow the extremely rich who can afford numerous multi-hundred-dollar safes be afforded access to basic tools.