Gun storage dilemma

[The Two Jerseys]

I find it a little hard to be sympathetic to those whores who facilitate rape by wearing skimpy outfits, they were askin' fer it by wearin' those clothes if ya ask me.

-Boomer_4_Santorum

Oh please. Absolute reactionary bullshit. If we're not going to engage in good faith then let me ask you why don't you care about people being gunned down by guns stolen from legal owners?

As to your actual "argument", several things. The victim of rape is the one who is raped. The victim of a murder carried out by a legal weapon is the person who was murdered. There's also no proven link between skimpy clothes and rape but there is a proven link between murder and stolen guns.

In any case, your comparison of a rape victim and someone being asked to lock their gun up is absurd and minimises the crime of rape. Now if a gun owner, having taken all precautions and locking their gun up, and it was still stolen that's something different and they shouldn't be held responsible.

Was she wearing a chastity belt?

[Andsed]

I agree people should lock up their guns and especially if their kids and if a kid shoots themselves then yeah that is the parents fault. But I think in any other situations aka some robber stealing a gun and using it in that context it is unfair to punish the gun owner since they are not at fault there the robber is.

"should" as opposed to "by law"

I think is an important distinction here.

Yeah what I meant is you really should not that we should make a law saying you are required to. Sorry if that was confusing for any of you.

[Kash Island]

How about you do that and I do what I want?

it's my private property and it's in the confines of my home.

And congratulations you’re not responsible with your property

who are you to decide what is and is not responsible? I have no children and my husband and I are aware/educated on firearms.

[Internationalist Bastard]

I got a hypothetical, what's to stop someone from using this law as a way to get back at someone.

I'm having a hard time in life, so I go in and steal my "enemies gun" and shoot his family.

now, even if i'm arrested, hes going down with me and PLUS I was able to get his family in the process.

bit of a stretch, but uh

ok

Does the point change
Lock up your guns dude

The thing about handgun safes in-particular is that they are usually light enough to be packed off. And it won't be impossible for a particularly ambitious potential evil-doer to get inside, key or combination be damned.

My point is less about someone stealing the gun and more about responsibility
If you don’t lock your house at night it’s not your fault you got robbed but you could have locked the house

[Chestaan]

Look up the concept of externalities in economics. They've been around for a long time, but libertarians never acknowledge their existence because it challenges their propaganda.

good thing I'm not a libertarian

Libertarian, ancap, anyone who believes property rights are absolute. Because they never have been, and for good reason.

[Kash Island]

good thing I'm not a libertarian

Libertarian, ancap, anyone who believes property rights are absolute. Because they never have been, and for good reason.

I never said property rights are absolute either.

[Chestaan]

And congratulations you’re not responsible with your property

who are you to decide what is and is not responsible? I have no children and my husband and I are aware/educated on firearms.

Ah, so you're saying if you had children it would be different? Why?

[Kash Island]

who are you to decide what is and is not responsible? I have no children and my husband and I are aware/educated on firearms.

Ah, so you're saying if you had children it would be different? Why?

because(if you had read earlier) Parents are the legal guardians of the child, they take responsibility for the safety of the child because the child is not mature enough(for the most part).

[Chestaan]

Libertarian, ancap, anyone who believes property rights are absolute. Because they never have been, and for good reason.

I never said property rights are absolute either.

So then, what the hell is your argument?! All I've got so far is something vaguely about private property. Then something about hammers.

[Chestaan]

Ah, so you're saying if you had children it would be different? Why?

because(if you had read earlier) Parents are the legal guardians of the child, they take responsibility for the safety of the child because the child is not mature enough(for the most part).

So if you left your gun lying on the table and your hypothetical child shot him/herself, that would be your fault?

[New Frenco Empire]

bit of a stretch, but uh

ok


The thing about handgun safes in-particular is that they are usually light enough to be packed off. And it won't be impossible for a particularly ambitious potential evil-doer to get inside, key or combination be damned.

My point is less about someone stealing the gun and more about responsibility
If you don’t lock your house at night it’s not your fault you got robbed but you could have locked the house

Fair enough, but a legal requirement would either be impossible to enforce or way too intrusive. Probably a mix of both.

Totally for readily-accessible educational resources on responsible storage, though. Those are good.

[Kash Island]

I never said property rights are absolute either.

So then, what the hell is your argument?! All I've got so far is something vaguely about private property. Then something about hammers.

That victims shouldn't be blamed for the actions of criminals, pretty cut and dry.

[Kash Island]

because(if you had read earlier) Parents are the legal guardians of the child, they take responsibility for the safety of the child because the child is not mature enough(for the most part).

So if you left your gun lying on the table and your hypothetical child shot him/herself, that would be your fault?

Yes, but only because I am the legal guardian of the child and RESPONSIBLE for the safety of that SPECIFIC individual.

A grown adult stranger, no such thing.

[Andsed]

I never said property rights are absolute either.

So then, what the hell is your argument?! All I've got so far is something vaguely about private property. Then something about hammers.

The argument is that a gun owner is not responsible or at fault if someone steal their gun and should not be punished for it. This is not the case for children however since that person is their legal guardian if that kid uses their gun then yes they are at fault their since kids can't legally consent. But in the case of someone breaking in and stealing your gun that person is at fault and you should not be punished in that context.

[Albrenia]

I don't like guns in general, but I do hope gun owners keep their firearms out of easy reach of children and idiots, either fellow residents or visitors. I'd suspect most do at least that much.

[Fartsniffage]

So then, what the hell is your argument?! All I've got so far is something vaguely about private property. Then something about hammers.

That victims shouldn't be blamed for the actions of criminals, pretty cut and dry.

Yet insurance companies do that all the time.

[Kash Island]

So then, what the hell is your argument?! All I've got so far is something vaguely about private property. Then something about hammers.

The argument is that a gun owner is not responsible or at fault if someone steal their gun and should not be punished for it. This is not the case for children however since that person is their legal guardian if that kid uses their gun then yes they are at fault their since kids can't legally consent. But in the case of someone breaking in and stealing your gun that person is at fault and you should not be punished in that context.

thanks, you said it better than me.

[Sovaal]

https://www.amazon.com/Hornady-98180-RAPiD-Shotgun-Touch/dp/B01N4T4LSU

[Kash Island]

I don't like guns in general, but I do hope gun owners keep their firearms out of easy reach of children and idiots, either fellow residents or visitors. I'd suspect most do at least that much.

most gun owners are safe about their firearms, this is obvious considering the numbers of housholds with firearms as oppossed to those whom have incidents.

[Albrenia]

I don't like guns in general, but I do hope gun owners keep their firearms out of easy reach of children and idiots, either fellow residents or visitors. I'd suspect most do at least that much.

most gun owners are safe about their firearms, this is obvious considering the numbers of housholds with firearms as oppossed to those whom have incidents.

Which is good.

[Internationalist Bastard]

And congratulations you’re not responsible with your property

who are you to decide what is and is not responsible? I have no children and my husband and I are aware/educated on firearms.

Let me tell you a tale of little Alex, 15 year old poor kid
In an attempt to make some extra cash one summer I worked with a guy who did interior decorating, and I just kinda was moving stuff for him. Now I had to pull something out the closet of of customer so that we use it. I knocked down an unassuming cardboard box. When it fell in the floor, a loud bang rang out. Fortunately the bullet went no where near me, but it seemed mr customer forgot the safety.
Moral of the story, accidents happen, it’s better to keep things where accidents are a severe problem should be kept safely
My households guns are held in a safe, because that is, no pun intended, the safest place to put them

[Kash Island]

most gun owners are safe about their firearms, this is obvious considering the numbers of housholds with firearms as oppossed to those whom have incidents.

Which is good.

obviously, the vast majority of gun owners are.

[Andsed]

The argument is that a gun owner is not responsible or at fault if someone steal their gun and should not be punished for it. This is not the case for children however since that person is their legal guardian if that kid uses their gun then yes they are at fault their since kids can't legally consent. But in the case of someone breaking in and stealing your gun that person is at fault and you should not be punished in that context.

thanks, you said it better than me.

[The South Falls]

We don't have to force people to lock up their weapons. But, it's for the best if they do.

Keeping a defense weapon in a secure, child-proof area is great.

But, what a lot of people have been suggesting, having all your guns unlocked and out is stupid.

Kids kill themselves and others with those guns.

E.D.I.T:

Why would you be held responsible if someone steals your gun? That's their problem.

But still, you should just leave your guns out.

[Internationalist Bastard]

My point is less about someone stealing the gun and more about responsibility
If you don’t lock your house at night it’s not your fault you got robbed but you could have locked the house

Fair enough, but a legal requirement would either be impossible to enforce or way too intrusive. Probably a mix of both.

Totally for readily-accessible educational resources on responsible storage, though. Those are good.

That’s all I want
If we’re gonna be a country of armed citizens let’s at least be smart citizens