Should the Catholic Church be abolished?

[Torrocca]

Where in the Bible does it concur that Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit are one in the same? I've never seen that, to be honest.

John 1:1–1:18
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was in the beginning with God. 3All things came into being through him, and without him not one thing came into being. What has come into being 4in him was life, and the life was the light of all people.

5The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not overcome it. 6There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7He came as a witness to testify to the light, so that all might believe through him. 8He himself was not the light, but he came to testify to the light. 9The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world. 10He was in the world, and the world came into being through him; yet the world did not know him. 11He came to what was his own, and his own people did not accept him. 12But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God, 13who were born, not of blood or of the will of the flesh or of the will of man, but of God. 14And the Word became flesh and lived among us, and we have seen his glory, the glory as of a father’s only son, full of grace and truth.

15(John testified to him and cried out, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me ranks ahead of me because he was before me.’”) 16From his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace. 17The law indeed was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18No one has ever seen God. It is God the only Son, who is close to the Father’s heart, who has made him known.

To be frank, I don't quite interpret that as indicative, necessarily, of Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit all being one in the same. Maybe in the first few lines, sure; but, in that regard, it also seems everything of life is an extension of God, as I'm reading it.

[Jolthig]

As I said, anyone who professes Jesus is the Son of God and the Christ is a Christian. Plus, the Nicene Creed came 300 years after Christ. Yes, there were Trinitarians before Constantine, but Christianity had and still has several sects, yet, they're still Christian so as long as they believe that Jesus is their savior.

None of the non-Trinitarian sects are from before the Nicene Creed, they're all just radical reformers.

To appeal to authority isn't a very convincing argument.

[Diopolis]

How exactly does one abolish the church, and who does it...?

Historically there have been a number anti-Popes.

Perhaps if one of those were created and were to come into contact with Pope Francis...

Try this one.

[United Muscovite Nations]

None of the non-Trinitarian sects are from before the Nicene Creed, they're all just radical reformers.

To appeal to authority isn't a very convincing argument.

Appeal to authority is pretty convincing when Christ actually established an Earthly authority.

[Diopolis]

None of the non-Trinitarian sects are from before the Nicene Creed, they're all just radical reformers.

To appeal to authority isn't a very convincing argument.

Christian theology works that way, though.

[Elysian Kentarchy]

I guess following (at least most of) those guidelines from the Bible itself doesn't count.

The things in the Bible are the same as those laid out in the Creed.

I believe in one God, Father Almighty, Creator of
heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

Literally read the first page of Genesis in literally any Bible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of
God, begotten of the Father before all ages;

Christ stated that he was there before Abraham lived, that he was there in the beginning according to the Gospel.

Light of Light, true God of true God, begotten,
not created, of one essence with the Father
through Whom all things were made.

Expansion on the above with the statement of equality of Father and Son.

Who for us men and for our salvation
came down from heaven and was incarnate
of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary and became man.

As stated in the Gospels with his birth and conception and also his statement that he is the way.

He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate,
and suffered and was buried;

And He rose on the third day,
according to the Scriptures.

He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father;

And He will come again with glory to judge the living
and dead. His kingdom shall have no end.

Everyone knows that Christ was executed under Pilate.

And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Creator of life,
Who proceeds from the Father, Who together with the
Father and the Son is worshipped and glorified, Who
spoke through the prophets.

Christ promised the coming of the Spirit after him.

In one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.

One holy and universal church claiming the tradition of the apostles, as Christ gave the keys to heaven to Peter and such.

I confess one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.

Does not need explaining as Christ was baptized

I look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the age to come.

Amen.

Another promise given to us in the scriptures.

So yeah goes along with what the Bible says very well.

[Torrocca]

To appeal to authority isn't a very convincing argument.

Appeal to authority is pretty convincing when Christ actually established an Earthly authority.

And what if one doesn't agree that those who originally agreed to the Nicene Creed are an extension of that authority?

[United Muscovite Nations]

John 1:1–1:18
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was in the beginning with God. 3All things came into being through him, and without him not one thing came into being. What has come into being 4in him was life, and the life was the light of all people.

5The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not overcome it. 6There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7He came as a witness to testify to the light, so that all might believe through him. 8He himself was not the light, but he came to testify to the light. 9The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world. 10He was in the world, and the world came into being through him; yet the world did not know him. 11He came to what was his own, and his own people did not accept him. 12But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God, 13who were born, not of blood or of the will of the flesh or of the will of man, but of God. 14And the Word became flesh and lived among us, and we have seen his glory, the glory as of a father’s only son, full of grace and truth.

15(John testified to him and cried out, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me ranks ahead of me because he was before me.’”) 16From his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace. 17The law indeed was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18No one has ever seen God. It is God the only Son, who is close to the Father’s heart, who has made him known.

To be frank, I don't quite interpret that as indicative, necessarily, of Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit all being one in the same. Maybe in the first few lines, sure; but, in that regard, it also seems everything of life is an extension of God, as I'm reading it.

What you're reading in the second paragraph is the Incarnation, how God became man so that he might save us sinners. It's pretty clear what it all means to me, because I know the tradition of what is said there.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Appeal to authority is pretty convincing when Christ actually established an Earthly authority.

And what if one doesn't agree that those who originally agreed to the Nicene Creed are an extension of that authority?

That's frankly not a historically feasible argument to make. We have records of which bishops ordained who right back to the original Apostles.

[The South Falls]

The Catholic church should not be abolished. Religion is good for some, and not for others.

[The South Falls]

And let's ban the white house if we're banning organisations with scandals.

[United Muscovite Nations]

The things in the Bible are the same as those laid out in the Creed.

I believe in one God, Father Almighty, Creator of
heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

Literally read the first page of Genesis in literally any Bible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of
God, begotten of the Father before all ages;

Christ stated that he was there before Abraham lived, that he was there in the beginning according to the Gospel.

Light of Light, true God of true God, begotten,
not created, of one essence with the Father
through Whom all things were made.

Expansion on the above with the statement of equality of Father and Son.

Who for us men and for our salvation
came down from heaven and was incarnate
of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary and became man.

As stated in the Gospels with his birth and conception and also his statement that he is the way.

He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate,
and suffered and was buried;

And He rose on the third day,
according to the Scriptures.

He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father;

And He will come again with glory to judge the living
and dead. His kingdom shall have no end.

Everyone knows that Christ was executed under Pilate.

And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Creator of life,
Who proceeds from the Father, Who together with the
Father and the Son is worshipped and glorified, Who
spoke through the prophets.

Christ promised the coming of the Spirit after him.

In one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.

One holy and universal church claiming the tradition of the apostles, as Christ gave the keys to heaven to Peter and such.

I confess one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.

Does not need explaining as Christ was baptized

I look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the age to come.

Amen.

Another promise given to us in the scriptures.

So yeah goes along with what the Bible says very well.

Very good summary!

[Firaxin]

And let's ban the white house if we're banning organisations with scandals.

Time to ban organization, because organized people might do bad things.

[Albrenia]

And let's ban the white house if we're banning organisations with scandals.

Yeah, the Church isn't even nearly alone in being an organisation with a lot of dirty secrets. Particularly in other areas which wield notable power of one kind or the another in society, politics or the economy.

[Torrocca]

To be frank, I don't quite interpret that as indicative, necessarily, of Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit all being one in the same. Maybe in the first few lines, sure; but, in that regard, it also seems everything of life is an extension of God, as I'm reading it.

What you're reading in the second paragraph is the Incarnation, how God became man so that he might save us sinners. It's pretty clear what it all means to me, because I know the tradition of what is said there.

I dunno, it really seems too open to interpretation for me to agree that's the only way to see it as so. Another way I see it as reading is that Jesus, not God, brought life and so forth, but was only with God, yet isn't God.

And what if one doesn't agree that those who originally agreed to the Nicene Creed are an extension of that authority?

That's frankly not a historically feasible argument to make. We have records of which bishops ordained who right back to the original Apostles.

And does Bishop Alexander fall along that lineage?

[The Great Korean Empire]

And let's ban the white house if we're banning organisations with scandals.

Time to ban organization, because organized people might do bad things.

Time to ban people because people do bad things.

[Prussian Polish Commonwealth]

luna go home you're drunk

[Torrocca]

Time to ban organization, because organized people might do bad things.

Time to ban people because people do bad things.

... This but unironically?

[Albrenia]

Time to ban people because people do bad things.

... This but unironically?

Finally the Roombas will take their rightful place as masters of the Earth.

[Diopolis]

Time to ban people because people do bad things.

... This but unironically?

Genocide for EVERYONE!

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Tbh all this "what makes a Christian" stuff belongs in the CDT, not here

[United Muscovite Nations]

What you're reading in the second paragraph is the Incarnation, how God became man so that he might save us sinners. It's pretty clear what it all means to me, because I know the tradition of what is said there.

1) I dunno, it really seems too open to interpretation for me to agree that's the only way to see it as so. Another way I see it as reading is that Jesus, not God, brought life and so forth, but was only with God, yet isn't God.

That's frankly not a historically feasible argument to make. We have records of which bishops ordained who right back to the original Apostles.

2) And does Bishop Alexander fall along that lineage?

1) How can it mean that when it says that Jesus and God are the same? It says "and the Word was God."
2) Which one? My bishop Alexander, whom I've met, is certainly validly ordained and can trace his Apostolic lineage back to an Apostle.

[The Great Korean Empire]

1) I dunno, it really seems too open to interpretation for me to agree that's the only way to see it as so. Another way I see it as reading is that Jesus, not God, brought life and so forth, but was only with God, yet isn't God.



2) And does Bishop Alexander fall along that lineage?

1) How can it mean that when it says that Jesus and God are the same? It says "and the Word was God."
2) Which one? My bishop Alexander, whom I've met, is certainly validly ordained and can trace his Apostolic lineage back to an Apostle.

Furthermore, it (later in the Book of John) goes on to say that Christ said "I and the Father are one." It literally states that God the Father and Christ are the same.

[The South Falls]

Time to ban organization, because organized people might do bad things.

Time to ban people because people do bad things.

We're going back to the should we ban days.

[The South Falls]

... This but unironically?

Genocide for EVERYONE!

What if the last guy doesn't kill himself?