Kringalia wrote:*raises hand*
You're not allowed to bet, you're on the court
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by Lord Dominator » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:27 pm
Kringalia wrote:*raises hand*
by Kringalia » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:34 pm
by Lord Dominator » Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:01 pm
by Glen-Rhodes » Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:44 pm
Escade wrote:What happened recently that led to the bans? One clear political faction was unable to prevent Tim from reaching second place in the delegate elections.
More recently they were unable to get their candidate for Regional Affairs to win even after they flamed the new rising player who's tactics they publicly reviled and privately adapted (DM campaigning).
If I were a regional admin myself I would be looking at this ban and trying to protect my community from such dangerous players.
by Ever-Wandering Souls » Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:50 pm
The Alicorns (Equestria) wrote:Let them stay, no need to badmouth them...From our view a bunch of nations just came in, seized the delegate position, and changed a few superficial things...we play NationStates differently...there's really no reason for us to be butthurt.
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8944227
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8951258
Reploid Productions wrote:Raiders are endlessly creative
by Aclion » Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:13 pm
Glen-Rhodes wrote:So you go around saying we’re calling you dangerous, accusing you of “harassment” with the connotation of it being sexualized or at that same level of abuse, and all that stuff that raises the stakes beyond what they really are... flaming, baiting, and trolling that would get you redtexted here, not shunned and isolated for life. The *only* people who have painted that picture are you and Tim.
by Glen-Rhodes » Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:14 pm
Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:Assuming this is not a late-stage cop-out, in what damn world did you expect to be able to throw around words like harassment and expect people to assume you just meant flaming? Why take two weeks to bother to begin to try and "clarify" this?
Like, to me it's pretty simple. Whatever the actions were, they're either *harassment*, in which case it's a serious OOC matter, or they're not, in which case you shouldn't be calling it harassment and then saying you don't actually mean "harassment" just..."harassment?"
by Ever-Wandering Souls » Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:24 pm
Glen-Rhodes wrote:Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:Assuming this is not a late-stage cop-out, in what damn world did you expect to be able to throw around words like harassment and expect people to assume you just meant flaming? Why take two weeks to bother to begin to try and "clarify" this?
Every admin that’s spoken about this, since day 1, has said the bans were being over-dramatized and misrepresented. We said over and over again that it was about flaming and baiting on TSP’s Discord and forum, that the problem was hostility and personal attacks. If this the first time you’ve heard it, it’s because you’ve been too busy over-dramatizing it yourself.Like, to me it's pretty simple. Whatever the actions were, they're either *harassment*, in which case it's a serious OOC matter, or they're not, in which case you shouldn't be calling it harassment and then saying you don't actually mean "harassment" just..."harassment?"
What do you call a sustained, months-long series of personal attacks, baiting, and trolling against a targeted groups of players?
The Alicorns (Equestria) wrote:Let them stay, no need to badmouth them...From our view a bunch of nations just came in, seized the delegate position, and changed a few superficial things...we play NationStates differently...there's really no reason for us to be butthurt.
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8944227
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8951258
Reploid Productions wrote:Raiders are endlessly creative
by PT Hawk » Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:48 pm
Glen-Rhodes wrote:Every admin that’s spoken about this, since day 1, has said the bans were being over-dramatized and misrepresented. We said over and over again that it was about flaming and baiting on TSP’s Discord and forum, that the problem was hostility and personal attacks. If this the first time you’ve heard it, it’s because you’ve been too busy over-dramatizing it yourself.
What do you call a sustained, months-long series of personal attacks, baiting, and trolling against a targeted groups of players?
by McManniaa » Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:57 pm
by The Church of Satan » Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:14 am
by Escade » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:23 am
by Tim-Opolis » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:24 am
Dear Tim, on behalf of the Admin Team
There have been multiple official complaints filed against you with the Admin Team, regarding a pattern of abusive behavior and slander against several individuals, including but not limited to Farengeto, Glen-Rhodes, and Nakari. In particular, the Admin Team has received statements and testimony attesting to frequent targeted attacks, personal attacks, harassment, and false accusations of OOC misconduct. We find the testimonies credible and alarming.
This pattern of behavior is in violation of the community rules, particularly Rules 1 and 8, but also contributes generally to a negative and unwelcoming environment. At least one player has attributed their leaving the game to this environment, and another explicitly to your behavior, with other players expressing that they are on the verge of leaving as well.
While there is always some disagreement to be had with others in the region, this level of vitriol and frequent attacks is inappropriate and simply cannot continue. What has occurred is far more than in-game political fighting. At this juncture, the Admin Team is considering administrative action. This can be avoided if you acknowledge the behavior described above, write a public apology to the affected individuals, and disavow the false accusations. Reconciliation would be better for everybody, but it requires a genuine apology and changed behavior.
Please respond within the next three days or further administrative action may be taken.
- tsunamy
[forum admin]
NO EXCEPTIONS
It's also important to mention that moderators and administrators are not above the rules. They are expected to abide by them, and can be given the same punishments as a regular user.
The Church of Satan wrote:He's got you there Glen. You backpedal any further you're gonna moon walk right outta this thread. If you presented this alleged evidence (at least to the accused) you could bring this scandal almost to a stop. >_>
<Koth - 06/30/2020> I mean as far as GPers go, Tim is one of the most iconic
by Queen Yuno » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:30 pm
Escade wrote:I have always tried to follow the legal route, or the rules of fair play, and therefore have been waiting for the regional administrators who volunteered to provide some guidance. Former delegates, long-time community members and former administrators of the South Pacific and other regions have been stonewalled in trying to get any answers. That, in itself, is highly disturbing. I also urge everyone to read Souls' post here as it sums up the situation quite clearly.
Please be utterly clear that this ban is purely motivated by foul play, hypocrisy and the kind of disgusting political weaponization of administration that has brought TSP to a new low. What happened recently that led to the bans? One clear political faction was unable to prevent Tim from reaching second place in the delegate elections. More recently they were unable to get their candidate for Regional Affairs to win even after they flamed the new rising player who's tactics they publicly reviled and privately adapted (DM campaigning). What was a 48 hour ban for four players, with simply one warning (do not engage with each other) became a 8 month ban for the two players who 1. Did not break the rules of the ban and tried to avoid engaging and 2. Were not the admin team, of which two members have made it their public goal to remove their political enemies from the region for a convenient period of time that coincides with election cycles.
The question is not about whether or not I, or Tim, want to stay in the South Pacific. It is that our reputations have been slandered on an OOC basis. If I were a regional admin myself I would be looking at this ban and trying to protect my community from such dangerous players. In fact, I have banned players from my private servers based on the testimony (without evidence) of respected admin. In this situation though TSP admin, having not been able to use IC political tactics to remove us from political influence, resorted to the most depraved method possible. How does anyone trust admin after this?
Why does this administration constantly refuse to create clear guidelines and follow a clear system of warnings? So they can continue to punish only those that they want to punish. The most disgusting thing about this whole ordeal is that Tsunamy, Kringalia, Glenn-Rhodes and Roavin afforded more rights to known OOC harassers. That is what is truly repulsive about this situation. How utterly vile does a player have to be to afford more rights to actually horrific people OOC then their IC political enemies?
Now we have the root admin incapable of responding to the legitimate questions asked by a long-term community member, former delegate, and former admin here. Tsunamy has taken a one month Leave of Absence so he doesn't have to deal with the actual implications and consequences of his actions. The rest of the admin are so inextricably biased in their enemies or favoritism over certain factions that they shouldn't be dealing with this case because they have shown no ability to be fair or impartial in this or other cases. After all one admin implied I was being punished because of Imki and his bad blood with her.
Tsunamy cites Unibot’s GP opinion as influencing his actions in that thread (and also cites Cormac but according to Cormac, Glenn-Rhodes and Roavin should also be banned - so where's the parity at least?). Of course that the admin of TSP uses Unibot's GP opinion as an opinion to follow is disturbing as equally disturbing that he cites Cormac's opinion since Tsunamy did state that one of his goals was to get Cormac to ragequit TSP last year and he successfully got him to ragequit (it's in the Legislator Lounge).
That flamebaiting a player into ragequitting was considered acceptable and IC though. Because it was Cormac? Was that IC or OOC? That's only one of the things I've witnessed admin do and call it all part of the game. And unlike them I have no qualms in providing a list of actions with the appropriate venues where the evidence can be found or sharing the DMs. Publicly. Tsunamy would be the most innocent of these admin because at least he's not in Unibot's fanclub, at least not in the actual server. This same admin, Tsunamy, deflecting the questions that hold him accountable, randomly links threads that are all IC as “proof” and states that anyone else can link to other evidence if they wish to. What the hell? "It's not one comment, its unexplainable" is utter bullshit and entirely an inappropriate response to claiming players committed OOC harassment.
If those are the standards for building a case then anyone can cherry pick through years of NSGP or forums or Discord and find one-sided, out of context evidence that allegedly proves toxicity. Context, patterns of history and behavior, especially for IC political feuds are key to establish anything. By banning us and preventing us from accessing the discord and forums they also effectively prevent us from counter filing or showing how they have created the standards and are choosing to selectively and, without any moderation, punish their IC enemies.
I also knew, when I chose not to throw a friend and ally under the bus, that I was going to be pushed out one way or another. It didn't matter that I was a former delegate and six time minister in the region; I chose not to side with the admin and I predicted my ousting publicly months ago. When trying to stick "coup\security" threat on me didn't work they resorted to weaponization of admin.
If had to make the same choice again, knowing what was coming, I would do so in a heartbeat. So the question is not about me staying in the region, there’s plenty else I can do and I appreciate the support from other players and regions. It’s about how entirely hypocritical and despicable this whole action was and how TSP administration cannot be trusted. And that's a problem for not just me and Tim but the entire NS community. This is why I ask all allies, administration in particular, to stop this kind of admin weaponization before it ruins the rest of the community.
Those interested in actually creating a better community engage in dialogue, communication, and use models and escalating steps. They model appropriate behavior and encourage it. This ban has nothing to do with toxicity and everything to do with dirty politics. That's sickening.
by Escade » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:32 pm
by Consular » Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:45 pm
by Ever-Wandering Souls » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:13 pm
Consular wrote:Not sure what anyone can say at this point, beyond expressing profound disappointment with TSP's admin team.
It's like you guys are actively trying to usurp the shittiest admin throne from TNP eh
The Alicorns (Equestria) wrote:Let them stay, no need to badmouth them...From our view a bunch of nations just came in, seized the delegate position, and changed a few superficial things...we play NationStates differently...there's really no reason for us to be butthurt.
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8944227
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8951258
Reploid Productions wrote:Raiders are endlessly creative
by Roavin » Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:42 am
Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:"Conversations in public and private with the admin team have gone nowhere at best, backwards at worst. TSP has 2 weeks to resolve X issues to Y standards, or we will enforce Z consequences until the issues have been both rectified permanently and apologized for sincerely. We mean the members of the region no ill will, and encourage them to push their administrative team to meet basic administrative standards, or find a team that will."
Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:How many times is TSP going to go through this cycle before it tries to remove the common factor in all of these incidents? The common group that everyone has an issue with? The group that, to quote Escade again, "told [me] that I needed to got to rehab" for refusing to join in on what she saw as people toxically ganging up on other people?
I hope one day you make the right turn, do the right thing, and rehabilitate yourself, because the path you've chosen is not going make this game fun for you again.
by Tandriheer » Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:51 am
by Kringalia » Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:16 am
Consular wrote:Not sure what anyone can say at this point, beyond expressing profound disappointment with TSP's admin team.
It's like you guys are actively trying to usurp the shittiest admin throne from TNP eh
by RiderSyl » Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:21 am
Kringalia wrote:I mean, I hope you guys in Gameplay didn’t actually think there’s anything you could say, do, criticise or threaten us with, that would make us alter the bans. That would be a misguided belief.
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