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Revolution or Security?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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What do you choose?

Option A: Keep my head down.
23
20%
Option B: Vive le Revolution!
74
63%
Secret Option C: Please Outline
20
17%
 
Total votes : 117

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Bombadil
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Posts: 18716
Founded: Oct 13, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Bombadil » Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:41 pm

Kubra wrote:
Kowani wrote:Ideally, I’d pick B, but with a caveat: I am not a fighter. I most definitely am not going to place a bomb at a power plant or assassinate somebody. Probably be pretty useless at anything more physical than “carry shit”. However, as a spreader of both propaganda and dissent, I think I would do quite well. So, perhaps I may not be idolized by future generations, but if I can get those who will fight against a regime like the one proposed to actually fight, then I think I’m doing quite well. However, I’d probably stick with Option A until something pushed me to act.
Funny thing, almost all the notable french academics who got a publicity boost for their participation in the french resistance never actually fought. They ran radio's and contributed articles to illicit newspapers. You see, the rest didn't participate at all.
Y'know, when it comes to situations like these it's generally a minority of folks involved. Participation points are awarded.


So this comes back to my earlier point about criminals being the first port of resistance. As the German Army advanced the entire wine community mobilised to send off, hide or whatever it took to keep the wine - of which there were some expensive collections - out of the hands of the Nazi elite.

That mobilisation, their natural international connections, their cellars and communication channels and the very secrecy of hiding the wine meant they formed a key part of the early resistance.

You just need a good enough cause to protect.
Eldest, that's what I am...Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn...he knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless — before the Dark Lord came from Outside..

十年

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An Alan Smithee Nation
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Posts: 7623
Founded: Apr 18, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:45 pm

Kubra wrote:Funny thing, almost all the notable french academics who got a publicity boost for their participation in the french resistance never actually fought. They ran radio's and contributed articles to illicit newspapers. You see, the rest didn't participate at all.
Y'know, when it comes to situations like these it's generally a minority of folks involved. Participation points are awarded.


It may not be what you intended, but that really underplays the importance of radio operators and counter-propaganda to any kind of resistance movement.
Everything is intertwinkled

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Kubra
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Posts: 17233
Founded: Apr 15, 2006
Father Knows Best State

Postby Kubra » Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:47 pm

Bombadil wrote:
Kubra wrote: Funny thing, almost all the notable french academics who got a publicity boost for their participation in the french resistance never actually fought. They ran radio's and contributed articles to illicit newspapers. You see, the rest didn't participate at all.
Y'know, when it comes to situations like these it's generally a minority of folks involved. Participation points are awarded.


So this comes back to my earlier point about criminals being the first port of resistance. As the German Army advanced the entire wine community mobilised to send off, hide or whatever it took to keep the wine - of which there were some expensive collections - out of the hands of the Nazi elite.

That mobilisation, their natural international connections, their cellars and communication channels and the very secrecy of hiding the wine meant they formed a key part of the early resistance.

You just need a good enough cause to protect.
Yeah, if you're unaccustomed to clandestine operations, because nearly everyone is as a matter of course, yeah you're not just gonna jump head first into an insurgency unless you really got conviction.
The communists also got a head start when Moscow sent the orders to resist, because they'd been semi-underground in the first place and almost wholly underground between 1940-1941.
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
Comrade J. Posadas

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Kubra
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17233
Founded: Apr 15, 2006
Father Knows Best State

Postby Kubra » Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:48 pm

An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:
Kubra wrote:Funny thing, almost all the notable french academics who got a publicity boost for their participation in the french resistance never actually fought. They ran radio's and contributed articles to illicit newspapers. You see, the rest didn't participate at all.
Y'know, when it comes to situations like these it's generally a minority of folks involved. Participation points are awarded.


It may not be what you intended, but that really underplays the importance of radio operators and counter-propaganda to any kind of resistance movement.
Not at all. Support roles are just as important as combat roles. What I was getting at is that even if you don't pick up a gun you're in, you've got a role considered useful enough to put resources into, and that's really what matters.
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
Comrade J. Posadas

User avatar
An Alan Smithee Nation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7623
Founded: Apr 18, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:53 pm

Kubra wrote:
An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:
It may not be what you intended, but that really underplays the importance of radio operators and counter-propaganda to any kind of resistance movement.
Not at all. Support roles are just as important as combat roles. What I was getting at is that even if you don't pick up a gun you're in, you've got a role considered useful enough to put resources into, and that's really what matters.


Agreed.
Everything is intertwinkled

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Thermodolia
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 78489
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:56 pm

The New California Republic wrote:Secret option C: Be a brown-nose Stasi officer, while keeping a secret ledger of all the shit that is happening. Such ledgers/diaries/unofficial notes have been kept in the past, and have formed a vital part of any evidence that is used later to press criminal charges against the perpetrators, especially if official records are redacted or destroyed by the regime during its existence or during its collapse.

But it all depends on how intolerable the situation is, my actions may be different depending on circumstances.

You could also work your way up and topple shit from the inside out. That’s probably what I’d do. Get to a high ranking position in the military and then go all Stauffenberg on the leadership.
Male, Jewish, lives somewhere in AZ, Disabled US Military Veteran, Oorah!, I'm GAY!
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
Click for Da Funies

RIP Dya

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Bombadil
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18716
Founded: Oct 13, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Bombadil » Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:57 pm

Kubra wrote:
Bombadil wrote:
So this comes back to my earlier point about criminals being the first port of resistance. As the German Army advanced the entire wine community mobilised to send off, hide or whatever it took to keep the wine - of which there were some expensive collections - out of the hands of the Nazi elite.

That mobilisation, their natural international connections, their cellars and communication channels and the very secrecy of hiding the wine meant they formed a key part of the early resistance.

You just need a good enough cause to protect.
Yeah, if you're unaccustomed to clandestine operations, because nearly everyone is as a matter of course, yeah you're not just gonna jump head first into an insurgency unless you really got conviction.
The communists also got a head start when Moscow sent the orders to resist, because they'd been semi-underground in the first place and almost wholly underground between 1940-1941.


The story is told here: Wine and War
Eldest, that's what I am...Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn...he knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless — before the Dark Lord came from Outside..

十年

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Thermodolia
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 78489
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:59 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:Secret Option C: Join whatever the most powerful state security unit there is and work your way up the ladder as a diligent, competent and loyal member of the regime until you're in a position to seize power and declare yourself Supreme Leader.

Is try the same but from a military side. I’d work my way up to the top of the military food chain and then pull a coup
Male, Jewish, lives somewhere in AZ, Disabled US Military Veteran, Oorah!, I'm GAY!
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
Click for Da Funies

RIP Dya

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Right wing humour squad
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Posts: 1080
Founded: Feb 28, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Right wing humour squad » Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:02 am

Yeah you would need to kill me well before we get there. Democratic tyranny of the masses is a step too far imho.
Currently adulting.
Reheated Donuts.
Minarchist and libertarian extremist.

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Thermodolia
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 78489
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:08 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:The op says the recording will be repeated ad infinitum?

Option A then.

When asked, I will let out a kira style laugh

And then I will launch into a grand speech about how it had to be done. There was no other way. Life is too precious.

WE WERE JUST FOLLOWING ORDERS!

I will also take the opportunity to point out the hypocrisies of the rebels and the new regime. I will make it clear that I show zero remorse and if handed it again I would do the same again.

This speech will trend worldwide within a few hours thanks to the fame of the documentary.

I’ll then be able to sell a few books using my meme status, retire young, and never work again. What a great plan.

Ya good luck with that. You’re still getting purged along with the rest of the old regime once the military coup occurs
Male, Jewish, lives somewhere in AZ, Disabled US Military Veteran, Oorah!, I'm GAY!
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
Click for Da Funies

RIP Dya

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Infected Mushroom
Post Czar
 
Posts: 39345
Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Tue Sep 04, 2018 1:12 am

Thermodolia wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:The op says the recording will be repeated ad infinitum?

Option A then.

When asked, I will let out a kira style laugh

And then I will launch into a grand speech about how it had to be done. There was no other way. Life is too precious.

WE WERE JUST FOLLOWING ORDERS!

I will also take the opportunity to point out the hypocrisies of the rebels and the new regime. I will make it clear that I show zero remorse and if handed it again I would do the same again.

This speech will trend worldwide within a few hours thanks to the fame of the documentary.

I’ll then be able to sell a few books using my meme status, retire young, and never work again. What a great plan.

Ya good luck with that. You’re still getting purged along with the rest of the old regime once the military coup occurs


Not really

I kept my head down during the war
Last edited by Infected Mushroom on Tue Sep 04, 2018 1:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Infected Mushroom
Post Czar
 
Posts: 39345
Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Tue Sep 04, 2018 1:19 am

Thermodolia wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:Secret Option C: Join whatever the most powerful state security unit there is and work your way up the ladder as a diligent, competent and loyal member of the regime until you're in a position to seize power and declare yourself Supreme Leader.

Is try the same but from a military side. I’d work my way up to the top of the military food chain and then pull a coup


I think you overestimate your abilities

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Thermodolia
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 78489
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Tue Sep 04, 2018 1:19 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Ya good luck with that. You’re still getting purged along with the rest of the old regime once the military coup occurs


Not really

I kept my head down during the war

No you just mouthed off about my regime. That means you are apart of the old regime
Male, Jewish, lives somewhere in AZ, Disabled US Military Veteran, Oorah!, I'm GAY!
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
Click for Da Funies

RIP Dya

User avatar
Thermodolia
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 78489
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Tue Sep 04, 2018 1:20 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Is try the same but from a military side. I’d work my way up to the top of the military food chain and then pull a coup


I think you overestimate your abilities

Nah
Male, Jewish, lives somewhere in AZ, Disabled US Military Veteran, Oorah!, I'm GAY!
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
Click for Da Funies

RIP Dya

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The Free Joy State
Senior Issues Editor
 
Posts: 16402
Founded: Jan 05, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby The Free Joy State » Tue Sep 04, 2018 1:36 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Ya good luck with that. You’re still getting purged along with the rest of the old regime once the military coup occurs


Not really

I kept my head down during the war

During the war, you kept your head down. You then chose to mock the new regime... While the first round of trials will be for the war criminals, the new regime might get round to you in the second or third round of trials.

I'm not sure you'd get away scot-free.

An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:
Kubra wrote:Funny thing, almost all the notable french academics who got a publicity boost for their participation in the french resistance never actually fought. They ran radio's and contributed articles to illicit newspapers. You see, the rest didn't participate at all.
Y'know, when it comes to situations like these it's generally a minority of folks involved. Participation points are awarded.


It may not be what you intended, but that really underplays the importance of radio operators and counter-propaganda to any kind of resistance movement.

In World War II, the radio operators were some of the bravest people IMO. The average lifespan, I read somewhere, of an SOE wireless operator in Nazi-occupied France was about six weeks, before they could expect to be betrayed or discovered and tortured and/or killed.[A source for that, but not the one I read]

That's probably a more dangerous role than I, in all honesty, could do.
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Tue Sep 04, 2018 1:39 am, edited 3 times in total.
"If there's a book that you want to read, but it hasn't been written yet, then you must write it." - Toni Morrison

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Australian rePublic
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Posts: 27213
Founded: Mar 18, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Australian rePublic » Tue Sep 04, 2018 1:39 am

I wouldn't join a revolition unless I was sure that the current dictator wouldn't be replaced by someone just as bad, if not, worse
Hard-Core Centrist. Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right.
All in-character posts are fictional and have no actual connection to any real governments
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An Alan Smithee Nation
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Posts: 7623
Founded: Apr 18, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Tue Sep 04, 2018 1:42 am

Australian rePublic wrote:I wouldn't join a revolition unless I was sure that the current dictator wouldn't be replaced by someone just as bad, if not, worse


How could you ever be sure of that?
Everything is intertwinkled

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Australian rePublic
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27213
Founded: Mar 18, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Australian rePublic » Tue Sep 04, 2018 1:43 am

An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:I wouldn't join a revolition unless I was sure that the current dictator wouldn't be replaced by someone just as bad, if not, worse


How could you ever be sure of that?

Good question
Hard-Core Centrist. Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right.
All in-character posts are fictional and have no actual connection to any real governments
You don't appreciate the good police officers until you've lived amongst the dregs of society and/or had them as customers
From Greek ancestry Orthodox Christian
Issues and WA Proposals Written By Me |Issue Ideas You Can Steal
I want to commission infrastructure in Australia in real life, if you can help me, please telegram me. I am dead serious

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Infected Mushroom
Post Czar
 
Posts: 39345
Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Tue Sep 04, 2018 1:44 am

Thermodolia wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
Not really

I kept my head down during the war

No you just mouthed off about my regime. That means you are apart of the old regime


No that doesn’t follow logically

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Infected Mushroom
Post Czar
 
Posts: 39345
Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Tue Sep 04, 2018 1:45 am

Thermodolia wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
I think you overestimate your abilities

Nah


The probability of making top brass barring exceptional abilities/connections is nil

You don’t strike me as such

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Thermodolia
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 78489
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Tue Sep 04, 2018 1:52 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Nah


The probability of making top brass barring exceptional abilities/connections is nil

You don’t strike me as such

I’m full of Surprises
Male, Jewish, lives somewhere in AZ, Disabled US Military Veteran, Oorah!, I'm GAY!
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
Click for Da Funies

RIP Dya

User avatar
Thermodolia
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 78489
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Tue Sep 04, 2018 1:53 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:No you just mouthed off about my regime. That means you are apart of the old regime


No that doesn’t follow logically

I wouldn’t care. I’m the new dictator. You claimed that you where apart of the old regime and admitted that you would gladly do whatever they said again. That means you’re a threat to my power.
Male, Jewish, lives somewhere in AZ, Disabled US Military Veteran, Oorah!, I'm GAY!
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
Click for Da Funies

RIP Dya

User avatar
Infected Mushroom
Post Czar
 
Posts: 39345
Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Tue Sep 04, 2018 1:58 am

Thermodolia wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
No that doesn’t follow logically

I wouldn’t care. I’m the new dictator. You claimed that you where apart of the old regime and admitted that you would gladly do whatever they said again. That means you’re a threat to my power.


you're not the new dictator

the OP never said

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Thermodolia
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 78489
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Tue Sep 04, 2018 2:02 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:I wouldn’t care. I’m the new dictator. You claimed that you where apart of the old regime and admitted that you would gladly do whatever they said again. That means you’re a threat to my power.


you're not the new dictator

the OP never said

The OP said I could make a third option. In that option I’m the head of the military and I orchestrated a military coup and I’m now the new dictator.

Thus I’m purging the old regime and those who mock the new one and still support the old one.

You should have still kept your head down
Male, Jewish, lives somewhere in AZ, Disabled US Military Veteran, Oorah!, I'm GAY!
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
Click for Da Funies

RIP Dya

User avatar
Infected Mushroom
Post Czar
 
Posts: 39345
Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Tue Sep 04, 2018 2:09 am

Thermodolia wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
you're not the new dictator

the OP never said

The OP said I could make a third option. In that option I’m the head of the military and I orchestrated a military coup and I’m now the new dictator.

Thus I’m purging the old regime and those who mock the new one and still support the old one.

You should have still kept your head down


the third option gives you the option to TRY something else (as the current You, and not an alternate You)

so you are welcome to TRY to become the new dictator or to infiltrate and try to make it top brass and then betray people... but realistically, the current You won't make it that far

certainly not far enough to have me arbitrarily arrested (meanwhile, I'm 100% guaranteed to survive to at least post war because the rules of Option A say I am safe for the entire duration of the war, you though, having gone with C, have absolutely zero plot armour against your real life self... so trying to make it to top brass will likely get you noticed and into trouble, likely decreasing your chances of surviving the war to nearly nil)

hence i recommend against you going that way
Last edited by Infected Mushroom on Tue Sep 04, 2018 2:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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