Automation and Technological Unemployment

[Senkaku]

I'm not trying to be an asshole, by the way. I'm trying to get you to define exactly what should be banned. You can't just say "ban automation", it's too vague.

I don’t give a fuck

I mean, then why bother contributing? SJ has a valid point, "banning automation" is pretty damn sweeping, and you seemed to contradict yourself in saying that computers or a carrot-picking machine don't count, only fully autonomous systems do (basically, if it only saves a ton of labor, rather than 100% eliminating all need for human input, it doesn't count, which is pretty narrow and doesn't apply to a lot of the stuff driving what people are talking about when they talk about automation killing jobs). The industrial robots in car factories still need human overseers, after all- they're not fully autonomous, just like the carrot picker, but their deployment made a lot of manufacturing jobs unnecessary.

Because it also helps us understand ourselves better. It also means robots can be more useful as they can do things like explore unexpected terrain.

Id rather not have a robot rebellion or the world destroyed by machines.

I'm just gonna make a super crazy suggestion that maybe you should do more research about AI than just sitting down and doing a Matrix-Terminator-I, Robot marathon...?

[Valrifell]

Again, that depends on if we can find other areas for humans to work. You know, kinda like what we did during the industrial revolution.

I don't think we will.

We allready are having trouble finding jobs for the youth of today, it's just going to get harder to find work as technology marches on.

We will need Universal basic income when unemployment hits 30%.

Pft. We'll hit "global socialist revolution" if the unemployment hits 30%. If one out of every three Americans is unemployed (roughly) you've hit a catastrophic economic collapse that would be recorded as the worst in history, no workers means no wages means no consumer.

Realistically, however, the march of technology is slow to integrate with the economy, meaning we'll get societal unrest before unemployment figures start to seriously inflate.

[Sick Jumps]

I'd favor looking at UBI and other solutions along those lines if technological unemployment does turn into a long term problem. I haven't seen truly compelling evidence yet that it will be a long term problem, so I'd rather that we take a "wait and see" approach for now.

In the meantime, we should take steps to reduce the impact any short term job losses can have.

[Senkaku]

And more often than not science fiction has correctly predicted the future.

This seems like a pretty big generalization. Have there been some things that prescient authors have foreseen or imagined versions of before they existed? Yeah. And there's also the mountains of stuff that remain totally unrealistic wild fantasies.

[Senkaku]

I'd favor looking at UBI and other solutions along those lines if technological unemployment does turn into a long-term problem. I haven't seen truly compelling evidence yet that will be a long-term problem, so I'd rather that we take a "wait and see" approach for now.

In the meantime, we should take steps to reduce the impact any short-term job losses can have.

Start mining the asteroids, introduce a UBI, keep automation going full throttle, and we'll have post-scarcity before you know it

tfw art and gender studies degrees now are the ONLY marketable degrees bc everything else has been automated, enjoy GOP :^)

[Uxupox]

I'd favor looking at UBI and other solutions along those lines if technological unemployment does turn into a long-term problem. I haven't seen truly compelling evidence yet that will be a long-term problem, so I'd rather that we take a "wait and see" approach for now.

In the meantime, we should take steps to reduce the impact any short-term job losses can have.

Start mining the asteroids, introduce a UBI, keep automation going full throttle, and we'll have post-scarcity before you know it

tfw art and gender studies degrees now are the ONLY marketable degrees bc everything else has been automated, enjoy GOP :^)

pls no.

[Valrifell]

I'd favor looking at UBI and other solutions along those lines if technological unemployment does turn into a long-term problem. I haven't seen truly compelling evidence yet that will be a long-term problem, so I'd rather that we take a "wait and see" approach for now.

In the meantime, we should take steps to reduce the impact any short-term job losses can have.

Start mining the asteroids, introduce a UBI, keep automation going full throttle, and we'll have post-scarcity before you know it

tfw art and gender studies degrees now are the ONLY marketable degrees bc everything else has been automated, enjoy GOP :^)

B-but w-what about the natural sciences?

[Uxupox]

Start mining the asteroids, introduce a UBI, keep automation going full throttle, and we'll have post-scarcity before you know it

tfw art and gender studies degrees now are the ONLY marketable degrees bc everything else has been automated, enjoy GOP :^)

B-but w-what about the natural sciences?

why think when you can let the machine think for you.

[Great Minarchistan]

Never said it was an 'utopian world' just an unavoidable thing that will happen.

And those are good things, not sure how can you be so fetishized with the past when you couldn't even be on this sort of forum 10-15 years ago.

Also, that post doesn't make any sense, those technologies still exist.

If we were to implement your premise some thousand years ago, that's exactly how we would look like.

[Great Minarchistan]

Really, the problem isn't the raw number of jobs technology will destroy (at least for now) it's that they're largely taking away jobs from people who are either extremely poor or just entering the workforce. Retail and fast food are the two most likely candidates for automation in the near future and that could seriously disrupt some people's livelihoods.

Disparity of pay and employment between bachelor's (and higher) vs. less than HS educational attainment has been the same ever since the 90s.

[Great Minarchistan]

tfw art and gender studies degrees now are the ONLY marketable degrees bc everything else has been automated, enjoy GOP :^)

Economics is riding the wave due to big data, guess who's opening a wide smile? :^)

[Sick Jumps]

Hey Great Minarchistan, what would the libertarian solution to long term technological unemployment be? (assuming it is even a thing)

I'm assuming it would be a negative income tax or something like that (which is essentially a UBI)

[Valrifell]

Really, the problem isn't the raw number of jobs technology will destroy (at least for now) it's that they're largely taking away jobs from people who are either extremely poor or just entering the workforce. Retail and fast food are the two most likely candidates for automation in the near future and that could seriously disrupt some people's livelihoods.

Disparity of pay and employment between bachelor's (and higher) vs. less than HS educational attainment has been the same ever since the 90s.

This level of automation is fairly recent, however. From what I know McDonald's self-service kiosks are a really recent phenomenon. We'll have to wait and see how the data adjusts.

[Senkaku]

Start mining the asteroids, introduce a UBI, keep automation going full throttle, and we'll have post-scarcity before you know it

tfw art and gender studies degrees now are the ONLY marketable degrees bc everything else has been automated, enjoy GOP :^)

pls no.

When it comes to pass, remember every time you stream music, order on Amazon, or watch Netflix, and remember it was the future you chose

Also, that post doesn't make any sense, those technologies still exist.

The point is that there was a time when they didn't, and if people had taken the same attitudes towards them then as some now suggest we take towards computers, AI, and robots, we wouldn't be in a position to be discussing the dilemma that our modern technology poses, because civilization would not exist or would be in a withered dark age of technological and scientific repression and stagnation.

You can't stop technology from advancing, you can just try and make sure that good people are doing their best to guide it and use it for the right ends, rather than trying to repress it and leaving the work of advancement to unscrupulous baddies with their own agendas.

[Benjabobaria]

I think that AI will be different. Automating thought processes will have huge impacts and result in humans being outcompeted by machines in almost every field.

[Costa Fierro]

It's only an issue so long as nobody is doing anything to retrain individuals already in the industry.

Retraining people works up until there is a point reached where there are no longer enough jobs and too many qualified people. And that point will be reached eventually, whether it be in our lifetimes or those of our generation's children and grandchildren.

Disparity of pay and employment between bachelor's (and higher) vs. less than HS educational attainment has been the same ever since the 90s.

There's also an additional problem of funneling too many people through the tertiary education system whereby they graduate with useless degrees and end up having to find employment in the same kinds of jobs as those without said qualifications.

[Senkaku]

tfw art and gender studies degrees now are the ONLY marketable degrees bc everything else has been automated, enjoy GOP :^)

Economics is riding the wave due to big data, guess who's opening a wide smile? :^)

"I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of engineering majors cried out, and were suddenly silenced" :^)))

I feel better and better about a polisci/IR track lol

[Great Minarchistan]

Hey Great Minarchistan, what would the libertarian solution to long term technological unemployment be? (assuming it is even a thing)

I'm assuming it would be a negative income tax or something like that (which is essentially a UBI)

Personally -- can't speak for the libertarian movement that encompasses people from bare-libs to full blown ancaps -- I think that under this situation a solution could be the specialization of people on the field of scientifical research in order to find methods that can speed up learning and cut a deal for people to insert themselves on the path of fully automated techno progress

(Assuming that'll happen anyways)

[Washington Resistance Army]

Ban automation and send any who advocate for it to labor camps.

[Great Minarchistan]

Disparity of pay and employment between bachelor's (and higher) vs. less than HS educational attainment has been the same ever since the 90s.

This level of automation is fairly recent, however. From what I know McDonald's self-service kiosks are a really recent phenomenon. We'll have to wait and see how the data adjusts.

the data on employment comes as far as 1992 only. But the pay data comes as far as 1969, and the results show that an increasingly higher disparity was halted in the mid-90s. That's not even controlling for the increasingly larger student debt. caused by rising education costs under an environment where the government ignores supply and demand

[Senkaku]

Ban automation

0/10 too vague and Therm said it first anyways

and send any who advocate for it to labor camps.

okay, 1.5/10 for misplaced zeal

[Dooom35796821595]

Ban automation and send any who advocate for it to labor camps.

Or, how about we send any luddites to the labour camps, since they’re so fond of their obsolete labours.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Ban automation

0/10 too vague and Therm said it first anyways

he stole it from me

okay, 1.5/10 for misplaced zeal

I'll take it

[Kowani]

Ban automation and send any who advocate for it to labor camps.

Let’s...not do that.

[Valrifell]

Ban automation and send any who advocate for it to labor camps.

Why do you hate science(!) also how do you define "automation" here?