Seattle Police Exodus?

[San Lumen]

https://www.king5.com/article/news/loca ... -568896863

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-ne ... er-exodus/

According to some reports there has been a exodus of police from Seattle. The head of the union claims officers are leaving due to poor morale and hostility from the city council. One city council member as highlighted in one of the articles called several police officers murderers before all the facts were known after a recent shooting.

However recruitment reports show there is no exodus of cops. In fact the number of officers hired outpaces those who are leaving and the number of police is at its highest level ever.

The two articles cited do point out a larger problem of police not getting the respect they deserve. There is a lot of mistrust in some communities regarding the police force and a lack of rapport.

That being said I do not believe police are infallible and they should be held accountable for their actions as they are public servants whose job it is to protect and serve the community. That does not mean their should be hostilely towards them. Nor should their be this brotherhood like attitude in the department that a police officers actions should not be questioned.

The department has been making efforts to reduce hostility and build a rapport. They recently got in on the Police lip sync challenge and they did a fantastic job.

What's your take NSG?

[The South Falls]

There should be work in communities to improve people's relations with the police. While police should be held accountable, we cannot infringe on their rights.

[San Lumen]

There should be work in communities to improve people's relations with the police. While police should be held accountable, we cannot infringe on their rights.

I agree completely but what do you mean by infringing on their rights?

[Telconi]

I think any police officer in Seattle who joined the force expecting a supportive relationship with the city council was foolish.

[San Lumen]

I think any police officer in Seattle who joined the force expecting a supportive relationship with the city council was foolish.

Its not the entire council. The city government shouldnt have a can do no wrong attitude regarding the police but they should not be hostile either.

[Telconi]

I think any police officer in Seattle who joined the force expecting a supportive relationship with the city council was foolish.

Its not the entire council. The city government shouldnt have a can do no wrong attitude regarding the police but they should not be hostile either.

"Should" is irrelevant. The fact is there is a an adversarial relationship.

[San Lumen]

Its not the entire council. The city government shouldnt have a can do no wrong attitude regarding the police but they should not be hostile either.

"Should" is irrelevant. The fact is there is a an adversarial relationship.

No there isn't. Its some on the far left that have a hostile view towards the department. But comments that the police union leadership makes dont help things. It's as if they have this attitude the city should support their actions no matter what they do.

[Senkaku]

"Should" is irrelevant. The fact is there is a an adversarial relationship.

No there isn't. Its some on the far left that have a hostile view towards the department. But comments that the police union leadership makes dont help things. It's as if they have this attitude the city should support their actions no matter what they do.

As someone who actually lives here I'd say it's somewhere between an adversarial relationship and "some people have a hostile view" with the PD thinking they're infallible. You're correct that the entire city government isn't against the police, but when you say "some on the far left", you overlook the fact that "some on the far left" include at least one city councillor (Kshama Sawant), and arguably others (Teresa Mosqueda would be the next one who comes to mind, though I find her far more palatable than Sawant's particular brand of insanity), and sometimes other parts of the city government who are more establishment (the mayor, Jenny Durkan, for example) and inclined to support the police department get reluctantly dragged along with them on things (see: the head tax). That said, the police department is also generally quite pissy about any attempt at reforms or changes.

You'll also note the department was quick to contradict the guild, and that "41 officers had left so far this year, compared to 39 in the same period last year", and that we've had a wage freeze since 2014 because the guild and the city can't reach a deal on a contract. So there's more going on here than just the police and the city being mad over BLM type stuff- this is also about money and appointments for police commissioner, etc.

SPD is also hiring just fine, even despite the wage freeze issue, so don't pay attention to this type of headline. It's sensationalist garbage, frankly, and unsupported by the data.

[San Lumen]

No there isn't. Its some on the far left that have a hostile view towards the department. But comments that the police union leadership makes dont help things. It's as if they have this attitude the city should support their actions no matter what they do.

As someone who actually lives here I'd say it's somewhere between an adversarial relationship and "some people have a hostile view" with the PD thinking they're infallible. You're correct that the entire city government isn't against the police, but when you say "some on the far left", you overlook the fact that "some on the far left" include at least one city councillor (Kshama Sawant), and arguably others (Teresa Mosqueda would be the next one who comes to mind, though I find her far more palatable than Sawant's particular brand of insanity), and sometimes other parts of the city government who are more establishment (the mayor, Jenny Durkan, for example) and inclined to support the police department get reluctantly dragged along with them on things (see: the head tax). That said, the police department is also generally quite pissy about any attempt at reforms or changes.

You'll also note the department was quick to contradict the guild, and that "41 officers had left so far this year, compared to 39 in the same period last year", and that we've had a wage freeze since 2014 because the guild and the city can't reach a deal on a contract. So there's more going on here than just the police and the city being mad over BLM type stuff- this is also about money and appointments for police commissioner, etc.

Well perhaps there should be more of attempt to work together and not be so resistant to reforms or changes.

That's quite sad that can't reach a deal on a contract. Police officers should not be without one. However the article also points out their have been more hires that retirements.

[The South Falls]

There should be work in communities to improve people's relations with the police. While police should be held accountable, we cannot infringe on their rights.

I agree completely but what do you mean by infringing on their rights?

Well, not in that sense. I mean we should show them the respect they deserve as police officers.

[Senkaku]

As someone who actually lives here I'd say it's somewhere between an adversarial relationship and "some people have a hostile view" with the PD thinking they're infallible. You're correct that the entire city government isn't against the police, but when you say "some on the far left", you overlook the fact that "some on the far left" include at least one city councillor (Kshama Sawant), and arguably others (Teresa Mosqueda would be the next one who comes to mind, though I find her far more palatable than Sawant's particular brand of insanity), and sometimes other parts of the city government who are more establishment (the mayor, Jenny Durkan, for example) and inclined to support the police department get reluctantly dragged along with them on things (see: the head tax). That said, the police department is also generally quite pissy about any attempt at reforms or changes.

You'll also note the department was quick to contradict the guild, and that "41 officers had left so far this year, compared to 39 in the same period last year", and that we've had a wage freeze since 2014 because the guild and the city can't reach a deal on a contract. So there's more going on here than just the police and the city being mad over BLM type stuff- this is also about money and appointments for police commissioner, etc.

Well perhaps there should be more of attempt to work together and not be so resistant to reforms or changes.

Thanks for the vague platitude? They'll sort something out eventually, everyone will complain and then get over it, and the Seattle process will continue.

That's quite sad that can't reach a deal on a contract. Police officers should not be without one. However the article also points out their have been more hires that retirements.

Yeah. The guild spokesman is exaggerating. I'm not disagreeing that there's conflict between the city council and the police, but it's hardly causing the kind of crisis he's talking about, that's a figment of his imagination tbh.

[San Lumen]

I agree completely but what do you mean by infringing on their rights?

Well, not in that sense. I mean we should show them the respect they deserve as police officers.

I do not disagree one bit. Its a dangerous profession and they deserve the upmost respect.

Well perhaps there should be more of attempt to work together and not be so resistant to reforms or changes.

Thanks for the vague platitude? They'll sort something out eventually, everyone will complain and then get over it, and the Seattle process will continue.

That's quite sad that can't reach a deal on a contract. Police officers should not be without one. However the article also points out their have been more hires that retirements.

Yeah. The guild spokesman is exaggerating. I'm not disagreeing that there's conflict between the city council and the police, but it's hardly causing the kind of crisis he's talking about, that's a figment of his imagination tbh.

I hope they can sort something out. And the guild spokesman exaggerating is not unique to Seattle. Its a problem in my city too. He often makes outlandish comments and always defends every officers actions.

[Senkaku]

And the guild spokesman exaggerating is not unique to Seattle. Its a problem in my city too. He often makes outlandish comments and always defends every officers actions.

Eh, it is his job. It more or less balances out- city council comes down against them, guild comes down for them, and the police department and the mayor's office are the mediators who sort stuff out, it usually seems here.

[San Lumen]

And the guild spokesman exaggerating is not unique to Seattle. Its a problem in my city too. He often makes outlandish comments and always defends every officers actions.

Eh, it is his job. It more or less balances out- city council comes down against them, guild comes down for them, and the police department and the mayor's office are the mediators who sort stuff out, it usually seems here.

Its his job to defend the officer when they do something wrong?

[Telconi]

Eh, it is his job. It more or less balances out- city council comes down against them, guild comes down for them, and the police department and the mayor's office are the mediators who sort stuff out, it usually seems here.

Its his job to defend the officer when they do something wrong?

It's his job to defend the officer.

[Erythrean Thebes]

What you feel in your heart doesn't constitute an entitlement not to hear anything to the contrary. But, if you tell a person who is severely aggrieved by a serious injury, something that is hurtful or offensive to them, you will probably appear as a cruel and unusual jerk.

[San Lumen]

Its his job to defend the officer when they do something wrong?

It's his job to defend the officer.

Even if they do something blatantly wrong. Well thats just sad. That reminds me of something that happened a few years ago in my city. Two police officers were assassinated in their patrol car and the PBA president said it was the mayors fault it happened. That he had stoked anti police bias. If I was mayor I would have called him into my officer and demand he apologize and if not he could hand me his badge.

[Senkaku]

It's his job to defend the officer.

Even if they do something blatantly wrong. Well thats just sad. That reminds me of something that happened a few years ago in my city. Two police officers were assassinated in their patrol car and the PBA president said it was the mayors fault it happened. That he had stoked anti police bias.

I mean, it's kinda gross, but that's how it goes. If you're the guild president or whatever, you don't want the police taking the heat for doing a shitty job and stoking resentment that got some officers killed, you want someone else blamed, and the mayor/city government are the best targets.

If I was mayor I would have called him into my officer and demand he apologize and if not he could hand me his badge.

This is why you're not mayor.

Eh, it is his job. It more or less balances out- city council comes down against them, guild comes down for them, and the police department and the mayor's office are the mediators who sort stuff out, it usually seems here.

Its his job to defend the officer when they do something wrong?

In the same way it's Sarah Huckabee Sanders' job to get up and tell the press corps what the President wants her to tell them. A lot of jobs require people to say or do kinda gross things, SL. That's how the world is, and there's always gonna be people to fill those positions, so start getting used to it.

[San Lumen]

Even if they do something blatantly wrong. Well thats just sad. That reminds me of something that happened a few years ago in my city. Two police officers were assassinated in their patrol car and the PBA president said it was the mayors fault it happened. That he had stoked anti police bias.

I mean, it's kinda gross, but that's how it goes. If you're the guild president or whatever, you don't want the police taking the heat for doing a shitty job and stoking resentment that got some officers killed, you want someone else blamed, and the mayor/city government are the best targets.

If I was mayor I would have called him into my officer and demand he apologize and if not he could hand me his badge.

This is why you're not mayor.

Its his job to defend the officer when they do something wrong?

In the same way it's Sarah Huckabee Sanders' job to get up and tell the press corps what the President wants her to tell them. A lot of jobs require people to say or do kinda gross things, SL. That's how the world is, and there's always gonna be people to fill those positions, so start getting used to it.

If the police are not going a good job they ought to be held accountable for it. They are public servants and your tax money pays their salaries and for their equipment.

So its perfectly ok to blame the mayor for something he couldn't have prevented and stoke mistrust among the department towards the mayor elected in a free and fair election?

[Telconi]

It's his job to defend the officer.

Even if they do something blatantly wrong. Well thats just sad. That reminds me of something that happened a few years ago in my city. Two police officers were assassinated in their patrol car and the PBA president said it was the mayors fault it happened. That he had stoked anti police bias. If I was mayor I would have called him into my officer and demand he apologize and if not he could hand me his badge.

It's always their job to defend the officers, what do you think the union exists for? And you would have been a mayor of an unpoliced city if there was any justice in the world.

[Telconi]

I mean, it's kinda gross, but that's how it goes. If you're the guild president or whatever, you don't want the police taking the heat for doing a shitty job and stoking resentment that got some officers killed, you want someone else blamed, and the mayor/city government are the best targets.

This is why you're not mayor.

In the same way it's Sarah Huckabee Sanders' job to get up and tell the press corps what the President wants her to tell them. A lot of jobs require people to say or do kinda gross things, SL. That's how the world is, and there's always gonna be people to fill those positions, so start getting used to it.

If the police are not going a good job they ought to be held accountable for it. They are public servants and your tax money pays their salaries and for their equipment.

So its perfectly ok to blame the mayor for something he couldn't have prevented and stoke mistrust among the department towards the mayor elected in a free and fair election?

It wouldn't be okay for him not to.

[San Lumen]

Even if they do something blatantly wrong. Well thats just sad. That reminds me of something that happened a few years ago in my city. Two police officers were assassinated in their patrol car and the PBA president said it was the mayors fault it happened. That he had stoked anti police bias. If I was mayor I would have called him into my officer and demand he apologize and if not he could hand me his badge.

It's always their job to defend the officers, what do you think the union exists for? And you would have been a mayor of an unpoliced city if there was any justice in the world.

Excuse me? Mayor of a unpoliced city?

If the police are not going a good job they ought to be held accountable for it. They are public servants and your tax money pays their salaries and for their equipment.

So its perfectly ok to blame the mayor for something he couldn't have prevented and stoke mistrust among the department towards the mayor elected in a free and fair election?

It wouldn't be okay for him not to.

Why wouldn't it be ok for him to not blame the mayor for something he could not have prevented?

[Senkaku]

I mean, it's kinda gross, but that's how it goes. If you're the guild president or whatever, you don't want the police taking the heat for doing a shitty job and stoking resentment that got some officers killed, you want someone else blamed, and the mayor/city government are the best targets.

This is why you're not mayor.

In the same way it's Sarah Huckabee Sanders' job to get up and tell the press corps what the President wants her to tell them. A lot of jobs require people to say or do kinda gross things, SL. That's how the world is, and there's always gonna be people to fill those positions, so start getting used to it.

If the police are not going a good job they ought to be held accountable for it. They are public servants and your tax money pays their salaries and for their equipment.

Yes, I'm aware and I agree. That's why we don't leave the police union in charge of the courts and the city council.

So its perfectly ok to blame the mayor for something he couldn't have prevented and stoke mistrust among the department towards the mayor elected in a free and fair election?

It's his job. I strongly disagree with the position, but I can hardly blame the guy for saying it- it's his job to try and duck accountability for that kind of thing and pin it on someone else, even if that someone is not to blame.

I can't tell if you don't understand what I'm saying or you're intentionally misreading it to try and start shit.

[Telconi]

It's always their job to defend the officers, what do you think the union exists for? And you would have been a mayor of an unpoliced city if there was any justice in the world.

Excuse me? Mayor of a unpoliced city?

It wouldn't be okay for him not to.

Why wouldn't it be ok for him to not blame the mayor for something he could not have prevented?

You're excused.

Because that's his job, people are supposed to do their jobs Lumen. That's how jobs work.

[San Lumen]

If the police are not going a good job they ought to be held accountable for it. They are public servants and your tax money pays their salaries and for their equipment.

Yes, I'm aware and I agree. That's why we don't leave the police union in charge of the courts and the city council.

So its perfectly ok to blame the mayor for something he couldn't have prevented and stoke mistrust among the department towards the mayor elected in a free and fair election?

It's his job. I strongly disagree with the position, but I can hardly blame the guy for saying it- it's his job to try and duck accountability for that kind of thing and pin it on someone else, even if that someone is not to blame.

I can't tell if you don't understand what I'm saying or you're intentionally misreading it to try and start shit.

Im not deliberately misreading it. I was trying to understand and you explained it well.