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Should Rural Votes be Weighted Against Urban Votes?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 87568
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:52 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
I dont think my state government is hostile or unrepresentative and neither do friends and family of mine in rural areas.


Cool, not everyone feels that way. Just like how some people feel Trump isn't hostile to them but some do.

But i genuinely dont understand how you feel your government is hostile or unrepresentative im sorry.

I suppose part of it has to with us being from entirely different areas. Your from a rural community whereas Im from the big city.

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Telconi
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Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:58 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Cool, not everyone feels that way. Just like how some people feel Trump isn't hostile to them but some do.

But i genuinely dont understand how you feel your government is hostile or unrepresentative im sorry.

I suppose part of it has to with us being from entirely different areas. Your from a rural community whereas Im from the big city.


So let me get this straight, you feel that your government can be hostile and un-representative. But cannot fathom how different people might feel the same way about a different government?
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San Lumen
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Posts: 87568
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:00 pm

Telconi wrote:
San Lumen wrote:But i genuinely dont understand how you feel your government is hostile or unrepresentative im sorry.

I suppose part of it has to with us being from entirely different areas. Your from a rural community whereas Im from the big city.


So let me get this straight, you feel that your government can be hostile and un-representative. But cannot fathom how different people might feel the same way about a different government?

I just don't see how your state government is hostile and oppressive as you claim.

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Washington Resistance Army
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Posts: 54805
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:01 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Cool, not everyone feels that way. Just like how some people feel Trump isn't hostile to them but some do.

But i genuinely dont understand how you feel your government is hostile or unrepresentative im sorry.

I suppose part of it has to with us being from entirely different areas. Your from a rural community whereas Im from the big city.


Yes, and the state government doesn't do a whole lot to benefit me and at times is actively harming me and other people. The minimum wage hike that got approved by Seattle voters especially is probably going to harm the hell out of businesses outside of the I5 corridor because $13.50 is absurdly high for some areas when compared to the cost of living. That's not even getting into things like gun control or other topics.
Hellenic Polytheist, Socialist

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Herskerstad
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Posts: 10259
Founded: Dec 14, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Herskerstad » Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:02 pm

The Lone Alliance wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Yeah CA's election system is shit and should be thrown out. There's a few other states that do kinda the same thing too and we should also remove those.

Well eventually California will suffer the faults of a one party state.


It seems that there is a process of Latinization of California, in the sense that the middle class is stagnating at best, the wealthy elite gets more stratified and entrenched while the poor classes hold an increasing population with poor economical prospects and an overabundance of competition. That coupled with identity politics one-party systems will inevitably create oligarchic-political tendencies. I'd argue it already has with their media standards.
Although the stars do not speak, even in being silent they cry out. - John Calvin

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Telconi
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Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:08 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Telconi wrote:
So let me get this straight, you feel that your government can be hostile and un-representative. But cannot fathom how different people might feel the same way about a different government?

I just don't see how your state government is hostile and oppressive as you claim.


You don't need to.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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Washington Resistance Army
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Posts: 54805
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:09 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Telconi wrote:
So let me get this straight, you feel that your government can be hostile and un-representative. But cannot fathom how different people might feel the same way about a different government?

I just don't see how your state government is hostile and oppressive as you claim.


And some people don't see how the Trump government is hostile. But it still is, yes?
Hellenic Polytheist, Socialist

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San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 87568
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:01 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
San Lumen wrote:I just don't see how your state government is hostile and oppressive as you claim.


And some people don't see how the Trump government is hostile. But it still is, yes?

It is to me

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Telconi
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Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:39 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
And some people don't see how the Trump government is hostile. But it still is, yes?

It is to me


Relevant part has been highlighted...
Last edited by Telconi on Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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Chan Island
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6824
Founded: Nov 26, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Chan Island » Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:40 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
And some people don't see how the Trump government is hostile. But it still is, yes?

It is to me


And yet, to them, different people, with different interests it is not.
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=513597&p=39401766#p39401766
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Bruke
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8278
Founded: Nov 21, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Bruke » Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:57 pm

Herskerstad wrote:
The Lone Alliance wrote:Well eventually California will suffer the faults of a one party state.


It seems that there is a process of Latinization of California, in the sense that the middle class is stagnating at best, the wealthy elite gets more stratified and entrenched while the poor classes hold an increasing population with poor economical prospects and an overabundance of competition. That coupled with identity politics one-party systems will inevitably create oligarchic-political tendencies. I'd argue it already has with their media standards.


Do tell! As a Californian, I have never heard this take on the Golden State before. I know (almost) all the papers lean left but support for oligarchical government? You'll have to convince me.

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Lamoni
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Posts: 9268
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Lamoni » Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:17 pm

Telconi wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Ah, so you're going to try to commit murder, then end up dead. You'll cost the state one whole bullet.


Cops aren't immortal *shrug*.

Besides, infrastructure vanda list is hardly difficult to get away with, it isn't like every power pole has armed guards. Or even every transformer or substation.


Telconi wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
How to end up in prison in one easy step.


Let's be honest, suspects who shoot back rarely end up in prison.


It looks like you could use a 24 hour vacation, Telconi.

*** One-day ban for advocating death. ***
Last edited by Lamoni on Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Lone Alliance
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Posts: 9442
Founded: May 25, 2005
Left-Leaning College State

Postby The Lone Alliance » Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:26 am

Bruke wrote:
Herskerstad wrote:
It seems that there is a process of Latinization of California, in the sense that the middle class is stagnating at best, the wealthy elite gets more stratified and entrenched while the poor classes hold an increasing population with poor economical prospects and an overabundance of competition. That coupled with identity politics one-party systems will inevitably create oligarchic-political tendencies. I'd argue it already has with their media standards.


Do tell! As a Californian, I have never heard this take on the Golden State before. I know (almost) all the papers lean left but support for oligarchical government? You'll have to convince me.

The media tends to worship the ground of Silicon Valley (When it agrees with them) as well as Hollywood (When it agrees with them) and of course whatever professor talking head that agrees with them?
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Washington Resistance Army
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Posts: 54805
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:22 am

San Lumen wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
And some people don't see how the Trump government is hostile. But it still is, yes?

It is to me


Great, we're making progress. Now you might not think the Californian government is hostile because you probably agree with them, but for someone who doesn't they very much can be seen as openly hostile. Much like how Telconi probably doesn't feel the Trump administration is hostile but you do.
Hellenic Polytheist, Socialist

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San Lumen
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Posts: 87568
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:56 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
San Lumen wrote:It is to me


Great, we're making progress. Now you might not think the Californian government is hostile because you probably agree with them, but for someone who doesn't they very much can be seen as openly hostile. Much like how Telconi probably doesn't feel the Trump administration is hostile but you do.


But the problem with politics today is many see the other side as their enemy. Should there be more bipartisanship? Absolutely

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Washington Resistance Army
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 54805
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:58 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Great, we're making progress. Now you might not think the Californian government is hostile because you probably agree with them, but for someone who doesn't they very much can be seen as openly hostile. Much like how Telconi probably doesn't feel the Trump administration is hostile but you do.


But the problem with politics today is many see the other side as their enemy. Should there be more bipartisanship? Absolutely


And that's what the point of our ideas are, congrats on finally understanding it.
Hellenic Polytheist, Socialist

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San Lumen
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Posts: 87568
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:04 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
But the problem with politics today is many see the other side as their enemy. Should there be more bipartisanship? Absolutely


And that's what the point of our ideas are, congrats on finally understanding it.

But you can do that without rigging the system to favor one group of people over the other.

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Washington Resistance Army
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 54805
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:05 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
And that's what the point of our ideas are, congrats on finally understanding it.

But you can do that without rigging the system to favor one group of people over the other.


How?
Hellenic Polytheist, Socialist

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San Lumen
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Posts: 87568
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:08 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
San Lumen wrote:But you can do that without rigging the system to favor one group of people over the other.


How?


By reaching across the aisle and working on issues in bipartisan way. Equal opportunity to speak, more transparency in committee for example among other things.

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Washington Resistance Army
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 54805
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:09 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
How?


By reaching across the aisle and working on issues in bipartisan way. Equal opportunity to speak, more transparency in committee for example among other things.


Nobody wants to reach across the aisle or work together on anything. Your system has no way to prevent one side from running all over the other if they have a sufficient majority.
Hellenic Polytheist, Socialist

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San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 87568
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:12 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
By reaching across the aisle and working on issues in bipartisan way. Equal opportunity to speak, more transparency in committee for example among other things.


Nobody wants to reach across the aisle or work together on anything. Your system has no way to prevent one side from running all over the other if they have a sufficient majority.

Well they should reach across the aisle and work together.

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Washington Resistance Army
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 54805
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:21 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Nobody wants to reach across the aisle or work together on anything. Your system has no way to prevent one side from running all over the other if they have a sufficient majority.

Well they should reach across the aisle and work together.


And it should rain money and we should all get along but that isn't going to happen. Your ideas are inherently flawed and have no protections in place if one side becomes malicious towards the other and instead relies on an absurdly naïve worldview where we all sing Kumbaya and be friends.
Hellenic Polytheist, Socialist

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San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 87568
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:40 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Well they should reach across the aisle and work together.


And it should rain money and we should all get along but that isn't going to happen. Your ideas are inherently flawed and have no protections in place if one side becomes malicious towards the other and instead relies on an absurdly naïve worldview where we all sing Kumbaya and be friends.

I never said that

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Washington Resistance Army
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 54805
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:46 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
And it should rain money and we should all get along but that isn't going to happen. Your ideas are inherently flawed and have no protections in place if one side becomes malicious towards the other and instead relies on an absurdly naïve worldview where we all sing Kumbaya and be friends.

I never said that


You regularly say it. People point out how they feel maligned and attacked and you always refuse to accept it because you just can't fathom it happening because it ruins your worldview.
Hellenic Polytheist, Socialist

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San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 87568
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:07 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
San Lumen wrote:I never said that


You regularly say it. People point out how they feel maligned and attacked and you always refuse to accept it because you just can't fathom it happening because it ruins your worldview.


Never implied that either

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