Left Wing Discussion Thread IV: Oh Hai Marx

[Genivaria]

No what?

Nationalism is cancer

Leftism is cancer.
See I can make over-generalizations to.

[Cekoviu]

Nationalism is cancer

Leftism is cancer.
See I can make over-generalizations to.

Literally all nationalism is cancer tho
Some of it is benign, but still

[Democratic Communist Federation]

Literally all nationalism is cancer tho
Some of it is benign, but still

Agreed.

[Albrenia]

Weird question, but do other countries take the national anthem/ pledge of allegiance as seriously as the United States? Do Canadians get upset if you don’t stand during O Canada before hockey games? I mean, for a democratic republic, America takes its patriotism very seriously, almost to the point of nationalism. Or do other countries get triggered if you don’t stand for the pledge or anthem.

It rallies people at sport events and is respected during official ceremonies. Other than that no one really cares too much and hardly anyone stands up or puts the hand on the chest(many even criticise our anthem for being too jolly and not serious enough).

edit: whoops, forgot to mention I'm talking about Italy

Many Australians can't even recite the whole anthem. We get to 'girt' and start humming.

[Cekoviu]

It rallies people at sport events and is respected during official ceremonies. Other than that no one really cares too much and hardly anyone stands up or puts the hand on the chest(many even criticise our anthem for being too jolly and not serious enough).

edit: whoops, forgot to mention I'm talking about Italy

Many Australians can't even recite the whole anthem. We get to 'girt' and start humming.

I don't think I can recite the whole US anthem either anymore, just the first verse. I used to be able to do the second too, but now that I'm not in grade school, nobody's making me learn it.

[Albrenia]

Making children pledge allegiance to something is pretty stupid anyway. Pledges from those unable to fully understand the gravity of such a pledge are meaningless, and just smell of indoctrination.

[Reformed Houn]

I mean nationalism can be perfectly viable if it serves your personal interest.

[Valgora]

Making children pledge allegiance to something is pretty stupid anyway. Pledges from those unable to fully understand the gravity of such a pledge are meaningless, and just smell of indoctrination.

I agree.
And during my senior year of high school, I stopped reciting it. However, I still remember the full pledge.

[Conserative Morality]

ITT: buncha dirty traitors

I still know the first stanza of the anthem (the only one that's ever used) and can recite the pledge by heart.

[Conserative Morality]

Making children pledge allegiance to something is pretty stupid anyway. Pledges from those unable to fully understand the gravity of such a pledge are meaningless, and just smell of indoctrination.

The pledge of allegiance has more in common with ritual recitation than actual vows.

[Cekoviu]

Making children pledge allegiance to something is pretty stupid anyway. Pledges from those unable to fully understand the gravity of such a pledge are meaningless, and just smell of indoctrination.

Ye. I don't ever really say the Pledge of Allegiance anymore, even when it's "required." Did it in grade school to be a good kid, though.

I mean nationalism can be perfectly viable if it serves your personal interest.

Yeah, but I don't really want the kind of people who are nationalists to have their personal interests served, if that makes any sense.

[Reformed Houn]

Making children pledge allegiance to something is pretty stupid anyway. Pledges from those unable to fully understand the gravity of such a pledge are meaningless, and just smell of indoctrination.

Ye. I don't ever really say the Pledge of Allegiance anymore, even when it's "required." Did it in grade school to be a good kid, though.

I mean nationalism can be perfectly viable if it serves your personal interest.

Yeah, but I don't really want the kind of people who are nationalists to have their personal interests served, if that makes any sense.

I don't mean some obscure personal interest concerning yelling at random brown kids, but for an example during an invasion or when dealing with a foreign superpower.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

I don't think I can recite the whole US anthem either anymore, just the first verse. I used to be able to do the second too, but now that I'm not in grade school, nobody's making me learn it.

I wish I could just take a pill that would make me forget it.

[Cekoviu]

Ye. I don't ever really say the Pledge of Allegiance anymore, even when it's "required." Did it in grade school to be a good kid, though.

Yeah, but I don't really want the kind of people who are nationalists to have their personal interests served, if that makes any sense.

I don't mean some obscure personal interest concerning yelling at random brown kids, but for an example during an invasion or when dealing with a foreign superpower.

Oh, I see.

[New Emeline]

I haven't recited the Pledge of Allegiance since elementary school...
Even then I didn't like the "under God" part.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

Ye. I don't ever really say the Pledge of Allegiance anymore, even when it's "required." Did it in grade school to be a good kid, though.

I am obviously quite a bit older than you. However, back in the mid-late 1960s, the New York State Supreme Court determined that requiring students to say that Pledge of Allegiance violated the state's constitution. We never said it again.

[United Muscovite Nations]

It's fine to support national liberation movements and national sovereignty, but it should never become empire-building, and Leftism must remain primarily internationalist.

[Cekoviu]

Ye. I don't ever really say the Pledge of Allegiance anymore, even when it's "required." Did it in grade school to be a good kid, though.

I am obviously quite a bit older than you. However, back in the mid-late 1960s, the New York State Supreme Court determined that requiring students to say that Pledge of Allegiance violated the state's constitution. We never said it again.

Hm. Yeah, that must've not happened in the states where I grew up.

[Genivaria]

It's fine to support national liberation movements and national sovereignty, but it should never become empire-building, and Leftism must remain primarily internationalist.

Okay when I say 'nationalism' I mean in the sense of 'we are all citizens of this great nation, don't let anyone try to divide us' kind of way.

[United Muscovite Nations]

It's fine to support national liberation movements and national sovereignty, but it should never become empire-building, and Leftism must remain primarily internationalist.

Okay when I say 'nationalism' I mean in the sense of 'we are all citizens of this great nation, don't let anyone try to divide us' kind of way.

When embracing such a point of view, it's pretty hard to go after socialism because socialism necessitates class conflict.

[Genivaria]

Okay when I say 'nationalism' I mean in the sense of 'we are all citizens of this great nation, don't let anyone try to divide us' kind of way.

When embracing such a point of view, it's pretty hard to go after socialism because socialism necessitates class conflict.

The way I see it the conflict is already there.

[United Muscovite Nations]

When embracing such a point of view, it's pretty hard to go after socialism because socialism necessitates class conflict.

The way I see it the conflict is already there.

But nationalism advocates national rather than class conflict. That's its premise.

[Genivaria]

The way I see it the conflict is already there.

But nationalism advocates national rather than class conflict. That's its premise.

I advocate national UNITY not national conflict.

[Reformed Houn]

But nationalism advocates national rather than class conflict. That's its premise.

I advocate national UNITY not national conflict.

What about


C L A S S C O N F L I C T

[United Muscovite Nations]

But nationalism advocates national rather than class conflict. That's its premise.

I advocate national UNITY not national conflict.

Carl Schmit already explained why that doesn't work. For nationalism to work, there must be a them/us (i.e. a friend/enemy) distinction. National unity can't exist without a group of people not being unified with, which takes the form of an other/enemy.