Left Wing Discussion Thread IV: Oh Hai Marx

[Bienenhalde]

Mao was right, for socialism to be successful, socialists must be radical and disciplined in thought, as well as admirable and upright in behavior.

Ironically his followers certainly did not follow through with such a suggestion.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Mao was right, for socialism to be successful, socialists must be radical and disciplined in thought, as well as admirable and upright in behavior.

Ironically his followers certainly did not follow through with such a suggestion.

Xi Jinping is cleaning out the Party and rejuvenating it with his anti-corruption drive.

[Reikoku]

Is it not obvious?

Roy Bhaskar, the late libertarian Marxist founder of critical realism, wrote that we are all, at our deepest level, bliss, copresence (unity in difference), and the cosmic envelope. Disunity, or what he called demireality and absence, is illusion upon illusion. Absenting those absences, or eliminating demireality, will require communism.

With all due respect, that notion is rather silly. We aren't “bliss,” any more than we're any other emotion. The rest comes across as a Deepak Chopra quote, which tend to just be a bunch of profound sounding words thrown together into a pretty yet unsubstantiated salad.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

With all due respect, that notion is rather silly. We aren't “bliss,” any more than we're any other emotion. The rest comes across as a Deepak Chopra quote, which tend to just be a bunch of profound sounding words thrown together into a pretty yet unsubstantiated salad.

Roy was a speculative philosopher as well as a libertarian Marxist. He based many of his conclusions, not on empirical evidence per se, but on phenomenological analysis.

[Reikoku]

With all due respect, that notion is rather silly. We aren't “bliss,” any more than we're any other emotion. The rest comes across as a Deepak Chopra quote, which tend to just be a bunch of profound sounding words thrown together into a pretty yet unsubstantiated salad.

Roy was a speculative philosopher as well as a libertarian Marxist. He based many of his conclusions, not on empirical evidence per se, but on phenomenological analysis.

So, on what sounded nice. It doesn't seem any more valid than creative writing.

[El Hamidah]

Roy Bhaskar, the late libertarian Marxist founder of critical realism, wrote that we are all, at our deepest level, bliss, copresence (unity in difference), and the cosmic envelope. Disunity, or what he called demireality and absence, is illusion upon illusion. Absenting those absences, or eliminating demireality, will require communism.

With all due respect, that notion is rather silly. We aren't “bliss,” any more than we're any other emotion. The rest comes across as a Deepak Chopra quote, which tend to just be a bunch of profound sounding words thrown together into a pretty yet unsubstantiated salad.

The "philosopher", on closer inspection, seems crackpot.

But he could mean bliss as in Satcitananda, The Knowledge-Consciousness-Bliss "attributable" to Brahman in the Vedanta.

[Aillyria]

Roy Bhaskar, the late libertarian Marxist founder of critical realism, wrote that we are all, at our deepest level, bliss, copresence (unity in difference), and the cosmic envelope. Disunity, or what he called demireality and absence, is illusion upon illusion. Absenting those absences, or eliminating demireality, will require communism.

So social revolution will lead to spiritual transcendence?

I can agree with that.

If that's what this Bhaskar guy is saying, I agree as well. I've always felt that socialism is more in tune with God (swt) and capitalism is the work of satanists.

[The Parkus Empire]

Mao was right, for socialism to be successful, socialists must be radical and disciplined in thought, as well as admirable and upright in behavior.

Which is of course impossible, humanity is in a fallen state.

[Aillyria]

Mao was right, for socialism to be successful, socialists must be radical and disciplined in thought, as well as admirable and upright in behavior.

Which is of course impossible, humanity is in a fallen state.

Being fallen doesn't necessary mean one cannot be disciplined and upright.......it simply means were are prone to sin, and we must constantly fight the battle against our lower selves.

[The Parkus Empire]

Which is of course impossible, humanity is in a fallen state.

Being fallen doesn't necessary mean one cannot be disciplined and upright.......it simply means were are prone to sin, and we must constantly fight the battle against our lower selves.

One can. A movement on the size required by communists, absolutely can't rely on its members being ultra righteous. It can urge it, but upright, seriously upright, people, are such an extremely scarce resource that it would be much more realistic to say for communists to succeed they need to first acquire all the money in the world

[Grenartia]

Only if you want to be a primitive tribal.

Anarchism doesn't require primitive tribalism.

Though it would inevitably lead to it.

Which is of course impossible, humanity is in a fallen state.

Being fallen doesn't necessary mean one cannot be disciplined and upright.......it simply means were are prone to sin, and we must constantly fight the battle against our lower selves.

Hot take: The entire concept of humanity as a whole "being fallen" is just a tool organized religion has used for millenia to control and manipulate people into ceding power to the elites. Nobody is truly evil, simply acting in what they see as their best interests according to the best information they have, and this is the ultimate cause of bad things happening to good people (aside from things that are totally outside human control).

[Albrenia]

Being an atheist and not a believer in cosmic absolutes of objective morality, I don't believe humanity is 'fallen'. Nasty, greedy, violent and capable of immense wrong? Yep, but also compassionate, selfless, brave and curious.

I'm a bit of a sucker though, because I firmly believe most people aren't bad. I believe most people are just living their lives, willing to go with the flow, good or bad, as long as them and their families are safe. A small minority are true do-gooders who want to help their fellow man and make the world better even at cost to themselves, and a smaller fraction are just nasty shits willing to do and say anything to get what they want.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Ironically his followers certainly did not follow through with such a suggestion.

Xi Jinping is cleaning out the Party and rejuvenating it with his anti-corruption drive.

If it's not democratic, it's not anti-corrupt.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Humanity's quite good when you don't restrict us to a neo-Indian caste system that strangles us through financial burdens and when we're well-educated.

Even then humanity is only somewhat less disgusting.

And now the misanthropes come out of the woodwork.

Seeing the reality of things isn't "misanthropic".

It is misanthropic to focus on the bad elements of humanity whilst pretending the good doesn't exist. The idea of someone saying "humanity sucks except me" when everything you've ever been given in life was given to you by another human is the most snobbish, hypocritical, reality denying, pessimistic thing I can think of.

[Painisia]

Hoxhaism is one of the most disastrous ideologies. Just look at Albania when it was ruled by Hoxha

[HR Manager]

What does this thread think of Gramsci? I enjoy the vague ideas of his theory from people who do talks on him since it gives a different perspective on strategy.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

So, on what sounded nice. It doesn't seem any more valid than creative writing.

Phenomenological analysis is a method of qualitative research.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

What does this thread think of Gramsci? I enjoy the vague ideas of his theory from people who do talks on him since it gives a different perspective on strategy.

I use Gramsci's work on the subaltern.

[Cekoviu]

Has anybody considered the possibility that there might not be such a thing as inherent good or evil and we're splitting hairs over arbitrary categories that we've created for ourselves rather than some universal truth?

[Aillyria]

Anarchism doesn't require primitive tribalism.

Though it would inevitably lead to it.

Being fallen doesn't necessary mean one cannot be disciplined and upright.......it simply means were are prone to sin, and we must constantly fight the battle against our lower selves.

Hot take: The entire concept of humanity as a whole "being fallen" is just a tool organized religion has used for millenia to control and manipulate people into ceding power to the elites. Nobody is truly evil, simply acting in what they see as their best interests according to the best information they have, and this is the ultimate cause of bad things happening to good people (aside from things that are totally outside human control).

Humanity is fallen by the simply fact that we are not God (swt) and are spiritually separated from "him", therefore we are inherently sinful and malevolent. There are people that are more intentionally evil, but most people are evil due to lack of mental discipline or willfull ignorance.

Even then humanity is only somewhat less disgusting.


Seeing the reality of things isn't "misanthropic".

It is misanthropic to focus on the bad elements of humanity whilst pretending the good doesn't exist. The idea of someone saying "humanity sucks except me" when everything you've ever been given in life was given to you by another human is the most snobbish, hypocritical, reality denying, pessimistic thing I can think of.

I don't remember ever saying I thought of myself as being "good" or "not evil". IDK about you, but I work for a living I given myself what I've earned, other people have only ever hindered me and caused my grief.

[The Parkus Empire]

Being an atheist and not a believer in cosmic absolutes of objective morality, I don't believe humanity is 'fallen'. Nasty, greedy, violent and capable of immense wrong? Yep, but also compassionate, selfless, brave and curious.

I'm a bit of a sucker though, because I firmly believe most people aren't bad. I believe most people are just living their lives, willing to go with the flow, good or bad, as long as them and their families are safe. A small minority are true do-gooders who want to help their fellow man and make the world better even at cost to themselves, and a smaller fraction are just nasty shits willing to do and say anything to get what they want.

You don't have to be a theist to accept wickedness as man's default state, although you do have to have a coherent conception of wickedness.

[Aillyria]

Being an atheist and not a believer in cosmic absolutes of objective morality, I don't believe humanity is 'fallen'. Nasty, greedy, violent and capable of immense wrong? Yep, but also compassionate, selfless, brave and curious.

I'm a bit of a sucker though, because I firmly believe most people aren't bad. I believe most people are just living their lives, willing to go with the flow, good or bad, as long as them and their families are safe. A small minority are true do-gooders who want to help their fellow man and make the world better even at cost to themselves, and a smaller fraction are just nasty shits willing to do and say anything to get what they want.

You don't have to be a theist to accept wickedness as man's default state, although you do have to have a coherent conception of wickedness.

Atheists don't have a concrete conception of wickedness, "subjectivity" is their bread and butter, remember?

[Democratic Communist Federation]

So, on what sounded nice. It doesn't seem any more valid than creative writing.

You are making positivist assumptions. Roy was a postpositivist. It is an entirely different philosophy of science.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Being an atheist and not a believer in cosmic absolutes of objective morality, I don't believe humanity is 'fallen'. Nasty, greedy, violent and capable of immense wrong? Yep, but also compassionate, selfless, brave and curious.

I'm a bit of a sucker though, because I firmly believe most people aren't bad. I believe most people are just living their lives, willing to go with the flow, good or bad, as long as them and their families are safe. A small minority are true do-gooders who want to help their fellow man and make the world better even at cost to themselves, and a smaller fraction are just nasty shits willing to do and say anything to get what they want.

You don't have to be a theist to accept wickedness as man's default state, although you do have to have a coherent conception of wickedness.

Undercooking meat. It is at the core of why one cannot trust the judgment of the Frenchman.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

The "philosopher", on closer inspection, seems crackpot.

But he could mean bliss as in Satcitananda, The Knowledge-Consciousness-Bliss "attributable" to Brahman in the Vedanta.

Roy's work is mainstream postpositivism or phenomenology. Positivists, on the other hand, are a dying breed.