Left Wing Discussion Thread IV: Oh Hai Marx

[Ostroeuropa]

It's not to do with my experience, I don't think. Maybe it is.
It's more to do with the people I can do so little for. I'm over my shit, I barely think about it. But with them, I feel helpless.
There's middle ground to be had. I'd just push beyond it and as far as I could until I lost a majority. I trust the process. I think it's more honest to be clear about it and say, "No, literally, I'm willing to go as far as the public is in terms of punishing these people. You have potential employees."

Firing them? Fine.
Imprisoning them? Fine.
Beyond that? Fine.
They are not human to me.
I know this is a sign of dysfunction, but the point is, the same dysfunction means I don't care. If they're unlucky enough to have caused that dysfunction, fury, and hatred in a majority, that sucks for them.

It's not feminists.
It's gynocentrists.
Duluthians, etc. The people who decide that people who are violently assaulted routinely should either shut the fuck up, or get jailed for complaining.

We kidnapped and hanged eichman.
It did not seem to mollify the jews grievance. Further measures.

I saw him break. It's not the first i've seen break. When they flip from hiding it to crying.

Ostro you ought to see about getting some rack amigo. You've had a bit too much to think it appears to me.

I've probably already gone too far.
It's not the booze. I can't deal with this shit anymore. I'm a random fuck up and i'm basically the only resource in the area. I don't have training, I'm not taught how to prevent this from fucking with my head, and it clearly has. But I can't turn people away. But, i've got booze, so that's that.

It's not to do with my experience, I don't think. Maybe it is.
It's more to do with the people I can do so little for. I'm over my shit, I barely think about it. But with them, I feel helpless.
There's middle ground to be had. I'd just push beyond it and as far as I could until I lost a majority. I trust the process. I think it's more honest to be clear about it and say, "No, literally, I'm willing to go as far as the public is in terms of punishing these people. You have potential employees."

Yeah, but you see... I can't even begin to relate to these extreme authoritarian fantasies of yours. No matter how much I may disdain the ideas and common attitudes of nazis, religious fundamentalists or incels, I never take those feelings to the point of dehumanization and malice. I don't fantasize about gaslighting and intimidating them to "crack them" and force them to flee their homes. I don't want to "inflict agony" on anyone. And not because of being afraid of jail, but because, even at my worst, I can't dehumanize other people or treat them as "a detriment to the species".

In my view this is because you lack the experiences to push you into that position. Like I said, i'm self-aware about this. I'm not a danger to people, but these kind of feelings and experiences are probably what push people to political violence and such. I don't see why I should hide that fact.

"Yeah, you're so fucked up, you've broken me. If it weren't for my faith in the rule of law, i'd have snapped. You're awful people, and violence probably happens because you're such a detriment to the species. I'm not going to do it, because i'm self-aware, but that's a rare trait. You should be aware that you're so awful and why."

[Bakery Hill]

It's not to do with my experience, I don't think. Maybe it is.
It's more to do with the people I can do so little for. I'm over my shit, I barely think about it. But with them, I feel helpless.
There's middle ground to be had. I'd just push beyond it and as far as I could until I lost a majority. I trust the process. I think it's more honest to be clear about it and say, "No, literally, I'm willing to go as far as the public is in terms of punishing these people. You have potential employees."

Firing them? Fine.
Imprisoning them? Fine.
Beyond that? Fine.
They are not human to me.
I know this is a sign of dysfunction, but the point is, the same dysfunction means I don't care. If they're unlucky enough to have caused that dysfunction, fury, and hatred in a majority, that sucks for them.

It's not feminists.
It's gynocentrists.
Duluthians, etc. The people who decide that people who are violently assaulted routinely should either shut the fuck up, or get jailed for complaining.

We kidnapped and hanged eichman.
It did not seem to mollify the jews grievance. Further measures.

I saw him break. It's not the first i've seen break. When they flip from hiding it to crying.

Ostro you ought to see about getting some rack amigo. You've had a bit too much to think it appears to me.

Yeah I'm gonna second that.

[Liriena]

Ostro you ought to see about getting some rack amigo. You've had a bit too much to think it appears to me.

Yeah I'm gonna second that.

Thirded.

And obligatory recommendation of good therapy in lieu of booze in the future from someone who took the therapy route. 'tis good. Harder in the short term, but far better than booze or drugs.

[Ostroeuropa]

Yeah I'm gonna second that.

Thirded.

And obligatory recommendation of good therapy in lieu of booze in the future from someone who took the therapy route. 'tis good. Harder in the short term, but far better than booze or drugs.

I've had therapy for my own shit. Not for the stress of dealing with others stuff.

[Liriena]

Thirded.

And obligatory recommendation of good therapy in lieu of booze in the future from someone who took the therapy route. 'tis good. Harder in the short term, but far better than booze or drugs.

I've had therapy for my own shit. Not for the stress of dealing with others stuff.

Dealing with others' stuff has clearly become your own stuff, tho.

[Ostroeuropa]

I've had therapy for my own shit. Not for the stress of dealing with others stuff.

Dealing with others' stuff has clearly become your own stuff, tho.

it's not fair.
(I know.)

[Liriena]

Dealing with others' stuff has clearly become your own stuff, tho.

it's not fair.
(I know.)

I'm gonna give you a and hope you get some good rest.

[The East Marches II]

I've probably already gone too far.
It's not the booze. I can't deal with this shit anymore. I'm a random fuck up and i'm basically the only resource in the area. I don't have training, I'm not taught how to prevent this from fucking with my head, and it clearly has. But I can't turn people away. But, i've got booze, so that's that.

Resources for fellow hurt sorts?

You may have gone a bit over but I am sure they won't hold it against you. With a bit of rest, I'm sure you'll be feeling better. Nobody ever said this sort of stuff was gonna be easy but you're still here and that counts for something. A some sleep and a proper meal would do you some good.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Sargons comment section /=/ the mrm.

Yeah i'd say they're a pretty big part of it.

Since it (thankfully) only really exists online

Thankfully indeed. Every day I get up and thank God that millions of babies are getting their genitals mutilated, that the law thinks I can't get raped, that 40% of domestic violence victims will have a very hard time finding a shelter because most of the west operates under a dom violence model that thinks they're the perpetrators. So much thanks!

[Liriena]

Yeah i'd say they're a pretty big part of it.

Since it (thankfully) only really exists online

Thankfully indeed. Every day I get up and thank God that millions of babies are getting their genitals mutilated, that the law thinks I can't get raped, that 40% of domestic violence victims will have a very hard time finding a shelter because most of the west operates under a dom violence model that thinks they're the perpetrators. So much thanks!

ngl, the fact that male genital mutilation is still a widespread thing, and mostly out of mere custom, in the United States makes me feel really glad it's not much of a thing here

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Ostro you ought to see about getting some rack amigo. You've had a bit too much to think it appears to me.

I've probably already gone too far.
It's not the booze. I can't deal with this shit anymore. I'm a random fuck up and i'm basically the only resource in the area. I don't have training, I'm not taught how to prevent this from fucking with my head, and it clearly has. But I can't turn people away. But, i've got booze, so that's that.

Yeah, but you see... I can't even begin to relate to these extreme authoritarian fantasies of yours. No matter how much I may disdain the ideas and common attitudes of nazis, religious fundamentalists or incels, I never take those feelings to the point of dehumanization and malice. I don't fantasize about gaslighting and intimidating them to "crack them" and force them to flee their homes. I don't want to "inflict agony" on anyone. And not because of being afraid of jail, but because, even at my worst, I can't dehumanize other people or treat them as "a detriment to the species".

In my view this is because you lack the experiences to push you into that position. Like I said, i'm self-aware about this. I'm not a danger to people, but these kind of feelings and experiences are probably what push people to political violence and such. I don't see why I should hide that fact.

"Yeah, you're so fucked up, you've broken me. If it weren't for my faith in the rule of law, i'd have snapped. You're awful people, and violence probably happens because you're such a detriment to the species. I'm not going to do it, because i'm self-aware, but that's a rare trait. You should be aware that you're so awful and why."

What's happening? Are you okay, Ostro?

[Napkiraly]

How young would you guys define as "too young" to have any sort of political opinion worth listening to?

21.

[Benuty]

How young would you guys define as "too young" to have any sort of political opinion worth listening to?

21.

Debatable if people can act in porn, smoke, and vote by 18 then the limit is already passed.

[Proctopeo]

Colonialism is a spook.

H-hey, y-you can't use that meme! It's for the egoists!

A truly Modern, Enlightened chap can use any meme.

[Dutch Papua]

H-hey, y-you can't use that meme! It's for the egoists!

A truly Modern, Enlightened chap can use any meme.

Memes are spooks

[Reikoku]

H-hey, y-you can't use that meme! It's for the egoists!

A truly Modern, Enlightened chap can use any meme.

“I do not step shyly back from your property, but look upon it always as my property, in which I respect nothing. Pray do the like with what you call my property!”

Stirner is pretty messed up, to be honest. I'm not surprised that Evola and Ōsugi were inspired by him.

[Ostroeuropa]

What's happening? Are you okay, Ostro?

Had a bad night is all. Gonna be busy for a day or two.

In news, an author was suspended from Medium for an in depth look into the history of feminist advocacy on domestic violence and the lies, statistical manipulations and outright fabrications, theoretical frameworks and such that the movement created and used to push blood libels on men, demonize them, and push for bias in custody cases. Part one is still up and was damning enough.

an entire generation of Americans has been raised on this seriously biased, inadequate research, and intentionally political view of a complex human issue. When you think of the thousands of families, perhaps millions of individuals who’ve been forced to comply with these at best, ineffective ideals, since the 1980s, you may find it as horrifying as I do.

Part two, with the title: Shattered families: Exposing the Goals of Domestic Violence Advocacy

Where he sought to allege it was deliberate, knowing, and due to hatred of men that this campaign of blood libels, legal discriminationl, demonization (Which precipitated a collapse of mens involvement in teaching and childcare professions too, when pushed alongside the feminist movements framing of rape as a male perpetrated crime historically) is what got him suspended.


It is a hate movement, historically. There is no reasonable basis to think these people did not know what they were doing. Modern feminists are either ignorant of these things, or ignoring them.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/com ... _was_able/

One also needs to consider that the feminist movement as recently as 2004 pushed for things like the "Violence against women act", and in the UK as recently as 2016, demanded a welsh domestic violence bill refer specifically to women. The historical crimes of this movement and it's blood libels against a demographic are ongoing.

If you call yourself a Nazi and don't know about the holocaust or pretend it doesn't matter, I don't care much about viewing you negatively. I think everyone should.
To call yourself a feminist is to identify with a hate movement, denial of it is of a similar substance to holocaust denial.

[Cekoviu]

Huh, it's almost like you don't like your own rhetoric being applied to your movement. Weird.

You're welcome to provide an example of an MRA supporting traditional roles. Let's all pull up some chairs to wait for it. Go ahead.
Fuck it.
You can represent feminism here, go ahead. Find one.
Find one.
Find one.
One.
A single fucking one.
Oh gosh, maybe you don't want to represent feminism while being disingenuous about its critics, tell you what.
Just represent yourself.
One.

If you don't respond, it's going in my sig. I'm sick of people lying through their teeth about it.
Go ahead.

Represent yourself and find a self-identified MRA who supports traditional gender roles. We'll all wait to see this example of a feminist not being disingenuous about their critics.
After all, surely there must be at least ONE feminist who isn't a liar about the MRM, and you're it, right?

Oh. Or you could admit such a feminist exists, but it isn't you, I guess.

Paul Elam. And I remember you trying to counteract a study showing that your assumptions about feminists are incorrect using mindless speculation, lying and being purposefully disingenuous about feminists as well, literally the exact same thing as Liriena is doing. You thinking you're better than everybody else because you're an MRA does not give you the right to call me a freaking liar when I'm doing NOTHING of the sort.

[Cekoviu]

Kind of worse

Also literally just look at anyone on Sargon's comment section lol

Sargons comment section /=/ the mrm.

You sit on your pedestal and whine about feminists saying the nasty parts of our movement don't represent us, and then you turn around and do the EXACT SAME THING. Are you KIDDING me?

[Ostroeuropa]

Paul Elam. And I remember you trying to counteract a study showing that your assumptions about feminists are incorrect using mindless speculation, lying and being purposefully disingenuous about feminists as well, literally the exact same thing as Liriena is doing. You thinking you're better than everybody else because you're an MRA does not give you the right to call me a freaking liar when I'm doing NOTHING of the sort.

What evidence do you have of Paul Elam being in favor of traditional gender roles. It's the most absurd claim possible to make of an MRA, tbh, especially one concerned with theory like Elam. He's of the school that believes men have always been the disadvantaged gender, and traditional sexism is merely gynocentrism of a different stripe. To argue for traditional gender roles as an MRA means you would have to ignore all the theory, all the issues, and all the rhetoric, as well as ignore all your peers telling you why you're wrong and why you're not an MRA.

Read his;
"A letter to traditional women."

It includes lines like "Fuck your traditional power" and "*I had to laugh when Andrea, not so coincidentally I might add, brought up all the blowjobs that good traditional husbands can expect from good traditional wives if only we were smart enough to indulge them with a life of light housekeeping and cooking, both of which can be bought on the cheap, and both of which the woman benefits from more than him. How much does a man enjoy his tidy abode when he is in the coal mine all day?" He fails in this letter to note sexual experiences is something women also enjoy, which would have made it better, but overall his point is that all the "Benefits" a man gets from the arrangement also benefit the woman, and often more, but they are presented as incentives. Meanwhile, the negatives from the arrangement fall on men.

You made this claim without evidence, without basis, and are probably not going to back it up. That strikes me as indistinguishable from a lie. Either you heard this lie from liars and did not think to check it out for yourself, or you've generated it personally.

"Traditionalism is the driving force behind male slavery."

So... yes. You just told a lie.

"In my way of thinking, it was never a good deal."
"I would not do it, not for a million dollars, and certainly not for a blowjob and a plate of beans I had to pay for."

He goes on to say he respects the personal choices of men in this matter as sacrosanct and doesn't wish to offend them, but urges them against it and to see the manipulation, misandry, and disrespect to them as people the arrangement has.

He uses the term "Couch princess" derisively, and has compared them to parasites.

Sargons comment section /=/ the mrm.

You sit on your pedestal and whine about feminists saying the nasty parts of our movement don't represent us, and then you turn around and do the EXACT SAME THING. Are you KIDDING me?

Democratic voters aren't the feminist movement and if I tried to argue that it would be absurd.
Sargons comment section is a separate group of people that may include MRAs but is not exclusive to them and cannot be said to accurately representative.
"Feminists support nationalizing the economy, just look at the democratic voters. Some of them say those things!"
------------

Speaking of nationalization, I discussed utility bills with my family today. The gas and energy companies made out like fucking bandits over these recent weather incidents in the UK, I suspect this will make the public more sympathetic to Corbyn's agenda of utility nationalization as they notice energy bills spiking so dramatically for this period.

[Cekoviu]

Paul Elam. And I remember you trying to counteract a study showing that your assumptions about feminists are incorrect using mindless speculation, lying and being purposefully disingenuous about feminists as well, literally the exact same thing as Liriena is doing. You thinking you're better than everybody else because you're an MRA does not give you the right to call me a freaking liar when I'm doing NOTHING of the sort.

What evidence do you have of Paul Elam being in favor of traditional gender roles.

Well, he hosted this crap, and wrote this (and yes, I'm aware that the website put up an asinine backpedaling message in place of the document). Both are in favor of the "women must dress modestly and men are starved for sex" message, even though they try to deny it.

You sit on your pedestal and whine about feminists saying the nasty parts of our movement don't represent us, and then you turn around and do the EXACT SAME THING. Are you KIDDING me?

Democratic voters aren't the feminist movement and if I tried to argue that it would be absurd.
Sargons comment section is a separate group of people that may include MRAs but is not exclusive to them and cannot be said to accurately representative.
"Feminists support nationalizing the economy, just look at the democratic voters. Some of them say those things!"

Sure, but read the comments submitted by self-admitted MRAs, or look at Democratic feminists. Or, instead of Sargon, read A Voice For Men's comment section. Or, well, you get the idea.

And after reading your violent fantasies a few pages ago, I have decided that I will no longer engage with you. I've tried to give you the benefit of the doubt in all of our conversations so far, but I am unwilling to have a normal discussion with somebody who wants to kill their ideological opponents. So, you are now on my ignore list and I will not debate you any further.

[Ostroeuropa]

What evidence do you have of Paul Elam being in favor of traditional gender roles.

Well, he hosted this crap, and wrote this (and yes, I'm aware that the website put up an asinine backpedaling message in place of the document). Both are in favor of the "women must dress modestly and men are starved for sex" message, even though they try to deny it.

Democratic voters aren't the feminist movement and if I tried to argue that it would be absurd.
Sargons comment section is a separate group of people that may include MRAs but is not exclusive to them and cannot be said to accurately representative.
"Feminists support nationalizing the economy, just look at the democratic voters. Some of them say those things!"

Sure, but read the comments submitted by self-admitted MRAs, or look at Democratic feminists. Or, instead of Sargon, read A Voice For Men's comment section. Or, well, you get the idea.

And after reading your violent fantasies a few pages ago, I have decided that I will no longer engage with you. I've tried to give you the benefit of the doubt in all of our conversations so far, but I am unwilling to have a normal discussion with somebody who wants to kill their ideological opponents. So, you are now on my ignore list and I will not debate you any further.

Right. He's slut shamed before. Doesn't change his staunch opposition to traditional gender roles. He's flawed, not traditionalist. A close reading of the first and knowledge of his character would also reveal that he's taking the piss. He's telling them to quit whining and get over it because women are privileged, he explicitly draws comparison to feminists doing this before he does so. He does this often, where he parodies feminists and their arguments and it gets dragged up as examples of how terrible the MRM is. If he retracted something I don't think it can be used as evidence of his beliefs, so the second seems out.
Ideologically, he is framing rapists as something uncontrollable and as something bad people just end up doing. This is the result of him rejecting the model of rape that pretends it's about power and masculinity, and he instead suggests it's about sex. From this context, he compares dressing provocatively to flashing cash in a bad neighborhood. That is a bad viewpoint, but I don't see it as traditionalism.

Fair enough. You're not obliged to respond to me.

[Reikoku]

How young would you guys define as "too young" to have any sort of political opinion worth listening to?

Only young people have political opinions worth listening to. We must disenfranchise the elderly, i.e anyone over 30.

[Ostroeuropa]

How young would you guys define as "too young" to have any sort of political opinion worth listening to?

Only young people have political opinions worth listening to. We must disenfranchise the elderly, i.e anyone over 30.

Well, we could disenfranchise anyone who can't comprehend young peoples slang directions to the polling station, and then we'd get away with it.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

Stirner is pretty messed up, to be honest. I'm not surprised that Evola and Ōsugi were inspired by him.

The fact that even fellow esoteric Traditionalist, René Guénon, tried to distance himself from Evola shows just how reactionary Evola had become.