by Nelandire » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:06 pm
by The First German Order » Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:57 am
by Nelandire » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:26 am
The First German Order wrote:OOC: Could we get a strength? Also this seems duplicated.
by Kenmoria » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:45 am
Nelandire wrote:The First German Order wrote:OOC: Could we get a strength? Also this seems duplicated.
I do not understand what you meant by strength. I am new here so pardon me if it may seem that it is too early to give out a proposal.
Also, I am genuinely disappointed that you have felt it may be duplicated but I can certify 100% to the fact that this is original and not copied.
To my best, I have ensured that there are no other other similar proposals, the closest would be the one I mentioned in the proposal itself and repealed proposal #49.
by The First German Order » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:47 am
Nelandire wrote:The First German Order wrote:OOC: Could we get a strength? Also this seems duplicated.
I do not understand what you meant by strength. I am new here so pardon me if it may seem that it is too early to give out a proposal.
Also, I am genuinely disappointed that you have felt it may be duplicated but I can certify 100% to the fact that this is original and not copied.
To my best, I have ensured that there are no other other similar proposals, the closest would be the one I mentioned in the proposal itself and repealed proposal #49.
by Masurbia » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:48 am
Nelandire wrote:The First German Order wrote:OOC: Could we get a strength? Also this seems duplicated.
I do not understand what you meant by strength. I am new here so pardon me if it may seem that it is too early to give out a proposal.
Also, I am genuinely disappointed that you have felt it may be duplicated but I can certify 100% to the fact that this is original and not copied.
To my best, I have ensured that there are no other other similar proposals, the closest would be the one I mentioned in the proposal itself and repealed proposal #49.
by The New California Republic » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:49 am
Nelandire wrote:CREATES the Bio-Ethics Council on Research (BECR) within World health Authority (WHA) whose task shall be the following:
by Copperward » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:51 am
Nelandire wrote:The First German Order wrote:OOC: Could we get a strength? Also this seems duplicated.
I do not understand what you meant by strength. I am new here so pardon me if it may seem that it is too early to give out a proposal.
Also, I am genuinely disappointed that you have felt it may be duplicated but I can certify 100% to the fact that this is original and not copied.
To my best, I have ensured that there are no other other similar proposals, the closest would be the one I mentioned in the proposal itself and repealed proposal #49.
by Industrial West Virginia » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:03 am
CREATES the Bio-Ethics Council on Research (BECR) within World health Authority (WHA) whose task shall be the following:
Therefore, noting the above, to prevent potential future economic downturns due to issues of health, to take preventive measures against diseases that risk high rate of fatality as well as transmission such as AIDS, Cancer, to uphold the value of health that serves as a premise of the GAR#412 enactment and to incentivize as well as nourish research,
3. To serve as an advisory to the WHA, General Assembly, its member nations and organizations concerning the issues of
ethical nature that pertains to the advancement in research
by Nelandire » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:19 am
Masurbia wrote:Nelandire wrote:I do not understand what you meant by strength. I am new here so pardon me if it may seem that it is too early to give out a proposal.
Also, I am genuinely disappointed that you have felt it may be duplicated but I can certify 100% to the fact that this is original and not copied.
To my best, I have ensured that there are no other other similar proposals, the closest would be the one I mentioned in the proposal itself and repealed proposal #49.
Have you looked at protection of biomedical research which looks very similar to your proposal here (The exact name). And under the “The General Assembly” you say “Hereby RECOMMENDS” which doesn’t do anything. It should be mandates or requires.
by Nelandire » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:21 am
Industrial West Virginia wrote:CREATES the Bio-Ethics Council on Research (BECR) within World health Authority (WHA) whose task shall be the following:
World *Health* Authority. Capitalize the H.Therefore, noting the above, to prevent potential future economic downturns due to issues of health, to take preventive measures against diseases that risk high rate of fatality as well as transmission such as AIDS, Cancer, to uphold the value of health that serves as a premise of the GAR#412 enactment and to incentivize as well as nourish research,
Uncapitalize the C in Cancer.3. To serve as an advisory to the WHA, General Assembly, its member nations and organizations concerning the issues of
ethical nature that pertains to the advancement in research
*and* its member nations + lack of punctuation?
by Nelandire » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:26 am
The New California Republic wrote:Nelandire wrote:CREATES the Bio-Ethics Council on Research (BECR) within World health Authority (WHA) whose task shall be the following:
OOC: As a general rule, it is better to use a pre-existing committee that has already been created by prior WA Resolutions, as adding more committees to the WA committee pile should be avoided at all costs.
by The First German Order » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:31 am
by Nelandire » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:37 am
The First German Order wrote:Nelandire wrote:I do not understand what you meant by strength. I am new here so pardon me if it may seem that it is too early to give out a proposal.
Also, I am genuinely disappointed that you have felt it may be duplicated but I can certify 100% to the fact that this is original and not copied.
To my best, I have ensured that there are no other other similar proposals, the closest would be the one I mentioned in the proposal itself and repealed proposal #49.
OOC: I never said it was plagiarized, I'm just asking if it's a duplication of "Protection of a Biomedical Research".
by Nelandire » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:48 am
The First German Order wrote:"We don't allow any private healthcare nor do we give grants to anyone. We already have a set budget for our healthcare and we do not plan on dedicating anymore of our funds to healthcare. If people cannot afford healthcare we are not giving them the money to be able to afford it, they can fer a job of their own. And finally, what ethics is this "council" going to enforce? You have not defined nor have you set any ethics in your proposal."
by The First German Order » Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:45 am
Nelandire wrote:The First German Order wrote:"We don't allow any private healthcare nor do we give grants to anyone. We already have a set budget for our healthcare and we do not plan on dedicating anymore of our funds to healthcare. If people cannot afford healthcare we are not giving them the money to be able to afford it, they can fer a job of their own. And finally, what ethics is this "council" going to enforce? You have not defined nor have you set any ethics in your proposal."
It is not private health care, It explicitly states that nation sets apart a portion. I do not exactly understand what you meant by not giving grants but anyway how exactly does a research takes place if grants are not given to those who conduct research?
The aspect of ethics is already mandated according to the resolution in Protection of Biomed Research, perhaps like you probably meant I can emphasize some points.
healthcare and its research usually does not have clear distinction,both go hand in hand, and the proposal is not to provide free healthcare but to provide a little subsidy since research expenditure could go high and therefore depriving the poor of its benefits.
by The First German Order » Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:45 am
The First German Order wrote:Nelandire wrote:It is not private health care, It explicitly states that nation sets apart a portion. I do not exactly understand what you meant by not giving grants but anyway how exactly does a research takes place if grants are not given to those who conduct research?
The aspect of ethics is already mandated according to the resolution in Protection of Biomed Research, perhaps like you probably meant I can emphasize some points.
healthcare and its research usually does not have clear distinction,both go hand in hand, and the proposal is not to provide free healthcare but to provide a little subsidy since research expenditure could go high and therefore depriving the poor of its benefits.
“Our government does the research and we don’t give grants. We have a set budget. Meanwhile you said that the “council” enforces the ethics that it comes up with, not ethics from ‘Protection of Biomedical Research’. Also, what do you mean by “depriving the poor of its benefits”? I don’t see how not subsidizing research that doesn’t need to be subsidized, for us at least, will “deprive the poor of its benefits”.”
OOC: I think that relying on the ethics set by “Protection of Biomedical Research” may be an HoC violation though I may be wrong.
by Nelandire » Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:09 pm
The First German Order wrote:Nelandire wrote:It is not private health care, It explicitly states that nation sets apart a portion. I do not exactly understand what you meant by not giving grants but anyway how exactly does a research takes place if grants are not given to those who conduct research?
The aspect of ethics is already mandated according to the resolution in Protection of Biomed Research, perhaps like you probably meant I can emphasize some points.
healthcare and its research usually does not have clear distinction,both go hand in hand, and the proposal is not to provide free healthcare but to provide a little subsidy since research expenditure could go high and therefore depriving the poor of its benefits.
“Our government does the research and we don’t give grants. We have a set budget. Meanwhile you said that the “council” enforces the ethics that it comes up with, not ethics from ‘Protection of Biomedical Research’. Also, what do you mean by “depriving the poor of its benefits”? I don’t see how not subsidizing research that doesn’t need to be subsidized, for us at least, will “deprive the poor of its benefits”.”
OOC: I think that relying on the ethics set by “Protection of Biomedical Research” may be a HoC violation though I may be wrong.
by The First German Order » Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:26 pm
Nelandire wrote:The First German Order wrote:“Our government does the research and we don’t give grants. We have a set budget. Meanwhile you said that the “council” enforces the ethics that it comes up with, not ethics from ‘Protection of Biomedical Research’. Also, what do you mean by “depriving the poor of its benefits”? I don’t see how not subsidizing research that doesn’t need to be subsidized, for us at least, will “deprive the poor of its benefits”.”
OOC: I think that relying on the ethics set by “Protection of Biomedical Research” may be a HoC violation though I may be wrong.
Correct me if I am wrong, government does research by giving grants or in otherwords allocating funds to the respective departments, however in this proposal, it seeks to promote research and awarding grants is also a way to do that (to work in govt labs if not private which is upto the government to decide), it would attract talent, lower unemployment, lower crime and through a series of cause and effect it ultimately reflect in the economy as a positive influence.
I am unusure if my new edits would answer your questions on low income groups and I am also unsure of hoC violation too. Take a look at my new edits if you may and let me know.
by Nelandire » Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:39 pm
The First German Order wrote:Nelandire wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong, government does research by giving grants or in otherwords allocating funds to the respective departments, however in this proposal, it seeks to promote research and awarding grants is also a way to do that (to work in govt labs if not private which is upto the government to decide), it would attract talent, lower unemployment, lower crime and through a series of cause and effect it ultimately reflect in the economy as a positive influence.
I am unusure if my new edits would answer your questions on low income groups and I am also unsure of hoC violation too. Take a look at my new edits if you may and let me know.
IC: "A government provides a budget and if the research requires more funding than they were given then they allocate more funding to that department. It's not just a one-time grant, it's higher funding until the research is complete. Also how would this result in a positive influence? It doesn't seem like this would lower crime or unemployment. If someone is poor and can't get a job, what makes you think that they'll have the required education and experience to be a researcher?"
OOC: Was your response IC or OOC? Mine was IC and OOC so you'd have to split it up as the HoC violation (if there is one) wouldn't be IC.
by The First German Order » Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:42 pm
Nelandire wrote:The First German Order wrote:IC: "A government provides a budget and if the research requires more funding than they were given then they allocate more funding to that department. It's not just a one-time grant, it's higher funding until the research is complete. Also how would this result in a positive influence? It doesn't seem like this would lower crime or unemployment. If someone is poor and can't get a job, what makes you think that they'll have the required education and experience to be a researcher?"
OOC: Was your response IC or OOC? Mine was IC and OOC so you'd have to split it up as the HoC violation (if there is one) wouldn't be IC.
The proposal does not mention anything about a specific amount allocated to research, just a suitable amount according to a nation's capability. however, it is completely the prerogative of the government to decide what requires more funding, a militaristic nation puts more emphasis on defence, a science and tech nation puts emphasis on R&D and so on.
If an economy is a primitive one (or less advanced one), surely this amounts to little decrease in crime or unemployment but I am inclined to say that is not the case because the proposal suggest the well off economies to help poorer ones via capacity building and sorts, so definitely there must be some decrease in unemployment and crimes is it not? Also I must say you wrongly assume that there cant be a poor or unemployed person with good education! You have plenty of real life examples that could prove your assumption wrong. As a fact I have seen many unemployed engineers !
by Nelandire » Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:06 pm
The First German Order wrote:Nelandire wrote:The proposal does not mention anything about a specific amount allocated to research, just a suitable amount according to a nation's capability. however, it is completely the prerogative of the government to decide what requires more funding, a militaristic nation puts more emphasis on defence, a science and tech nation puts emphasis on R&D and so on.
If an economy is a primitive one (or less advanced one), surely this amounts to little decrease in crime or unemployment but I am inclined to say that is not the case because the proposal suggest the well off economies to help poorer ones via capacity building and sorts, so definitely there must be some decrease in unemployment and crimes is it not? Also I must say you wrongly assume that there cant be a poor or unemployed person with good education! You have plenty of real life examples that could prove your assumption wrong. As a fact I have seen many unemployed engineers !
OOC: This is NationStates, not real life.
IC: "I do not have any "real life examples". In our nation if you're poor you most likely don't have a good education and our police force is good enough that we have little to no crime. Our unemployment wouldn't be helped by this because the government invites people who they think are good enough. You can't just get out of collage with a degree and say "Oh, I'm going to be a government scientist!". It just doesn't work. All of what you have said fails to explain how it would help lower crime and unemployment.
by The First German Order » Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:38 pm
Nelandire wrote:The First German Order wrote:OOC: This is NationStates, not real life.
IC: "I do not have any "real life examples". In our nation if you're poor you most likely don't have a good education and our police force is good enough that we have little to no crime. Our unemployment wouldn't be helped by this because the government invites people who they think are good enough. You can't just get out of collage with a degree and say "Oh, I'm going to be a government scientist!". It just doesn't work. All of what you have said fails to explain how it would help lower crime and unemployment.
I thought NS had its basis on real life( eg: WA, budgets, terrorism, etc.,) So I believe it is helpful to think of them.
I cannot offer you much towards enabling you see if you totally base your understanding on the game mechanics itself. however as a final attempt to help you with it, let me reiterate, no country that is not advanced enough to do some amount of science can benefit from the resolution however it does offer a sort of help via other scientifically established nations to equip some citizens to do research (even if its 200 scientists in a million , it is a decrease in unemployment) now for research, facilities require maintenance, there are logistical needs, scientists spent money (affects local retailers and etc.,) . I hope now you can get a better picture! Now research itself may not give an economy its boost, its the preserving of good health that gives a major positive influence( research -> better health -> -> better productivity -> economic growth), unemployement and crime too comes in somewhere along the chain of cause and effects as I mentioned beforehand. I take cues from real life to better understand this. I rest my case.
by Masurbia » Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:56 pm
The First German Order wrote:Nelandire wrote:I thought NS had its basis on real life( eg: WA, budgets, terrorism, etc.,) So I believe it is helpful to think of them.
I cannot offer you much towards enabling you see if you totally base your understanding on the game mechanics itself. however as a final attempt to help you with it, let me reiterate, no country that is not advanced enough to do some amount of science can benefit from the resolution however it does offer a sort of help via other scientifically established nations to equip some citizens to do research (even if its 200 scientists in a million , it is a decrease in unemployment) now for research, facilities require maintenance, there are logistical needs, scientists spent money (affects local retailers and etc.,) . I hope now you can get a better picture! Now research itself may not give an economy its boost, its the preserving of good health that gives a major positive influence( research -> better health -> -> better productivity -> economic growth), unemployement and crime too comes in somewhere along the chain of cause and effects as I mentioned beforehand. I take cues from real life to better understand this. I rest my case.
IC: “You’re still making literally zero sense. Our government only selects already employed scientists and offers them an opportunity to work for the government. That would not help unemployment and this proposal would not help reduce crime in any way. Ontop of that you have given me zero evidence to back up your claims. I refuse to believe your claims unless you give me some evidence.”
OOC: RL stuff doesn’t work as evidence for proposals on NS, nor can it be used in IC debates on NS.
by Araraukar » Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:16 pm
The First German Order wrote:OOC: RL stuff doesn’t work as evidence for proposals on NS, nor can it be used in IC debates on NS.
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
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