by Granluras » Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:19 pm
by Tinhampton » Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:39 pm
by Indo-Malaysia » Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:40 pm
by Tim-Opolis » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:00 pm
Tinhampton wrote:defenders try and fail miserably
<Koth - 06/30/2020> I mean as far as GPers go, Tim is one of the most iconic
by Glen-Rhodes » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:25 pm
by Tim-Opolis » Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:49 pm
Glen-Rhodes wrote:Geez, tell the plebs how The Grey Wardens really feel about fellow defenders facing the destruction of their region.
<Koth - 06/30/2020> I mean as far as GPers go, Tim is one of the most iconic
by Fauxia » Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:51 pm
And if the founder hadn’t forgotten the password to the founder nation...Tim-Opolis wrote:Glen-Rhodes wrote:Geez, tell the plebs how The Grey Wardens really feel about fellow defenders facing the destruction of their region.
It's a personal opinion, not an organization opinion.
Sorry that I'd rather tell it how it is rather than coddle people and tell them that they totally did everything they could. Had Westphalia listened to the advice presented to them, they would still be here rather than being a TBH trophy. Them's the facts.
by Glen-Rhodes » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:00 pm
Tim-Opolis wrote:Glen-Rhodes wrote:Geez, tell the plebs how The Grey Wardens really feel about fellow defenders facing the destruction of their region.
It's a personal opinion, not an organization opinion.
Sorry that I'd rather tell it how it is rather than coddle people and tell them that they totally did everything they could. Had Westphalia listened to the advice presented to them, they would still be here rather than being a TBH trophy. Them's the facts.
by Drop Your Pants » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:07 pm
Glen-Rhodes wrote:Your role as a defender leader is to teach the inexperienced, protect them regardless, and help them learn after failure. Not to call natives coddled and stupid and blame them for TBH's region destruction.
by Fauxia » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:35 pm
It isn't about perfection from inexperienced players, though. It's about those same inexperienced players listening to the experienced players who give them advice and intelligence. Defenders did exactly what you say Tim needs to do and Westphalia chose not to listen. The natives were told who to eject on multiple occasions, without listening (I believe also from SWORD as well- the group they are supposed to be a member of, so they should listen to them). That just seems like a ridiculous oversight to me. Plus they were told multiple times they were on the hit list of some invaders and should password. It might be different in cases where a raid only could have been prevented. In this case, it not only could have been prevented, it, in all right, should have been prevented. Defenders are annoyed that they had to deal with an unbreakable piler coalition on a region that should not have been raided in the first place. Or are we not allowed to be annoyed when there are huge security oversights anymore? Defenders are just supposed to take the blame, regardless of whether they deserve it or not. And you can't be angry at natives who completely ignored security advice to those who would know about it.Glen-Rhodes wrote:Tim-Opolis wrote:It's a personal opinion, not an organization opinion.
Sorry that I'd rather tell it how it is rather than coddle people and tell them that they totally did everything they could. Had Westphalia listened to the advice presented to them, they would still be here rather than being a TBH trophy. Them's the facts.
You're a defender. You're high ranking in The Grey Wardens, the biggest name in defending for now. If your idea of defending is expecting perfection from inexperienced players, then placing all blame and attacking them when their region is destroyed, I genuinely have no clue how you've risen through the ranks. Your role as a defender leader is to teach the inexperienced, protect them regardless, and help them learn after failure. Not to call natives coddled and stupid and blame them for TBH's region destruction.
by Tim-Opolis » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:37 pm
Glen-Rhodes wrote:You're a defender. You're high ranking in The Grey Wardens, the biggest name in defending for now. If your idea of defending is expecting perfection from inexperienced players, then placing all blame and attacking them when their region is destroyed, I genuinely have no clue how you've risen through the ranks. Your role as a defender leader is to teach the inexperienced, protect them regardless, and help them learn after failure. Not to call natives coddled and stupid and blame them for TBH's region destruction.
<Koth - 06/30/2020> I mean as far as GPers go, Tim is one of the most iconic
by Unibot III » Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:17 pm
Drop Your Pants wrote:Glen-Rhodes wrote:Your role as a defender leader is to teach the inexperienced, protect them regardless, and help them learn after failure. Not to call natives coddled and stupid and blame them for TBH's region destruction.
Times have changed (thankfully). Moral's are out the door, as well as most of the fossils.
Tim-Opolis wrote:What have you done, besides for being Unibot's political lapdog for a couple years?
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
by Jakker » Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:01 am
The Bruce wrote:Mostly I feel sorry for [raiders], because they put in all this effort and at the end of the day have nothing to show for it and have created nothing.
by Tupelope » Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:24 am
Jakker wrote:It would be fun to see moral defenders make a comeback and truly give NS the chance to see which type of defending is the most effective.
Edit: and I like Tupelope's idea of bringing back moral defenders who destroyed forums as well.
by Jakker » Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:32 am
Tupelope wrote:Jakker wrote:It would be fun to see moral defenders make a comeback and truly give NS the chance to see which type of defending is the most effective.
Edit: and I like Tupelope's idea of bringing back moral defenders who destroyed forums as well.
hey i deleted cuz i couldnt remember if it was defenders or raiders who did that my memory is foggy
The Bruce wrote:Mostly I feel sorry for [raiders], because they put in all this effort and at the end of the day have nothing to show for it and have created nothing.
by Tim-Opolis » Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:07 am
Unibot III wrote:I guess it’s up to “Gramps” to tell y’all you look ridiculous.
<Koth - 06/30/2020> I mean as far as GPers go, Tim is one of the most iconic
by Drop Your Pants » Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:07 am
Unibot III wrote:Sorry, who’s the fossil? You’ve lost me. Which one of us joined in 2005?
by Glen-Rhodes » Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:52 am
by Pergamon » Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:33 am
Glen-Rhodes wrote:The condescending attitudes towards natives are exactly why it’s been so easy to villainize defenders. So while you can pat yourself on the back, Tim, by calling simple empathy too moralistic for modern day defenders, you’re only building a weak foundation that will crumble in the future when newbies look at TGW and think, “Wow these guys are pretty full of themselves.”
And I can only imagine what the rest of the defender community thinks about being looked down upon for simply caring about natives. You may admit that you don’t care one iota about them, but the defender community at large does. And your response is to call it out of touch moralism, and connect caring about natives to being a “lapdog” to Unibot.
Also, let’s not pretend that you and the rest of the defender establishment fumbled on the Liberation proposal. Fratt made obvious points that the idea that a Liberation would make Westphalian insecure was wrong. You guys charged forward anyways with lobbying against it— you as part of the TSP Cabinet have the official recommendation to vote against it. Here we are 3 weeks later and Westphalia is just another destroyed region that will be refounded as a trophy for TBH and Unknown. While TGW was bickering with TBH about whether or not Westphalia was technically a defender region, the defender establishment joined arm in arm with raiders to defeat the only chance at stopping the destruction everybody saw coming. Now y’all are standing there looking around and going, “Wait, did nobody rewrite it 2 weeks later like we said needed to be done when we helped kill it?”
Westphalia is another failure of the defender establishment to protect a region from destruction. Every defender org and region involved in killing the Liberation should genuinely reevaluate their strategy in the SC. And TGW should rethink its PR move of labeling natives as nothing more than obstacles in their way of fighting raiders. If that’s not the stance of TGW, then their commanders should probably avoid making it appear so.
by Prusswitonsiakekingkailand » Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:41 am
by Big Bad Badger » Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:57 am
Drop Your Pants wrote:Glen-Rhodes wrote:Your role as a defender leader is to teach the inexperienced, protect them regardless, and help them learn after failure. Not to call natives coddled and stupid and blame them for TBH's region destruction.
Times have changed (thankfully). Moral's are out the door, as well as most of the fossils.
by Jar Wattinree » Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:25 am
by Ever-Wandering Souls » Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:27 am
The Alicorns (Equestria) wrote:Let them stay, no need to badmouth them...From our view a bunch of nations just came in, seized the delegate position, and changed a few superficial things...we play NationStates differently...there's really no reason for us to be butthurt.
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8944227
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8951258
Reploid Productions wrote:Raiders are endlessly creative
by Jar Wattinree » Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:35 am
Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:At this point y’all might as well explain a decade+ of defender infighting too, becuase I can’t imagine the poor OP feels any more in the loop with y’alls bickering.
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