Diversity and Multiculturalism II:Make Diversity Great Again

[Free Arctic Territories]

Yes but some keep insisting the opposite.

And If I recall correctly you conceded that you were talking bullshit?

Hard to prove a point when it takes one example to destroy it.

[Keuliseu]

And If I recall correctly you conceded that you were talking bullshit?

Hard to prove a point when it takes one example to destroy it.

Anything has atleast one point against it

[Ors Might]

My problem with that is that it doesn’t resolve the problems between the two groups and could potentially reinforce it in the long term. They can’t be separate in every situation, especially in smaller nations.

True, but unless something is done over generations rather than some one generation only project nothing is going to change.

That’s fair. The problem is that segration is almost always a sign of something being fucked in some way or a sign that something awful will happen. I’m not typically one for government intervention but there should be some minor encouragement for integration. I should stress that I don’t think change would happen over night. It’d take time and effort.

[Torrocca]

Praise diversity. Best thing ever! ^_^

[Ors Might]

It’s really weird how people who seemingly have this grudge against diversity forget that the US is a culturally diverse nation. Multiculturalism can work if the right components are there. Hell, that’s one of the aspects of American culture that make me proud to be an American, that we’ve managed to make it work for the most part.

Apart from the suburbs

I said for the most part. Part of being a patriot is aknowledging the areas your country is failing in. Not the easiest thing for me to do, admittedly.

[Free Arctic Territories]

Hard to prove a point when it takes one example to destroy it.

Anything has atleast one point against it

You do realize he spoke in absolutes, right? As in, there are no, absolutely no racial tensions in any of these cities. It takes one example to the contrary to prove you wrong when you're saying there's nothing against your argument.

[Ors Might]

Praise diversity. Best thing ever! ^_^

Very well can be. I don’t know if I could’ve been considered living before I tried Mongolian stir-fry.

[Keuliseu]

Anything has atleast one point against it

You do realize he spoke in absolutes, right? As in, there are no, absolutely no racial tensions in any of these cities. It takes one example to the contrary to prove you wrong when you're saying there's nothing against your argument.

Then yeah. If hes being absolute, for sure hes wrong

[Torrocca]

Praise diversity. Best thing ever! ^_^

Very well can be. I don’t know if I could’ve been considered living before I tried Mongolian stir-fry.

Yeah, and I mean besides the amaaazing exotic foods you can get from thousands of different cultures you also get loads of unique languages, religions, dances, musical styles, arts, and generally nice people to boot all over the place. It's really what makes diversity so great.

[Ors Might]

Very well can be. I don’t know if I could’ve been considered living before I tried Mongolian stir-fry.

Yeah, and I mean besides the amaaazing exotic foods you can get from thousands of different cultures you also get loads of unique languages, religions, dances, musical styles, arts, and generally nice people to boot all over the place. It's really what makes diversity so great.

I love seeing people from different cultures make their own unique twists on things, especially food. Kind of gets me excited to live in this global age of cultural exchange. Authenticity is all well and good but it’s a pleasure seeing new dishes and traditions form.

[Torrocca]

Yeah, and I mean besides the amaaazing exotic foods you can get from thousands of different cultures you also get loads of unique languages, religions, dances, musical styles, arts, and generally nice people to boot all over the place. It's really what makes diversity so great.

I love seeing people from different cultures make their own unique twists on things, especially food. Kind of gets me excited to live in this global age of cultural exchange. Authenticity is all well and good but it’s a pleasure seeing new dishes and traditions form.

Oh yeah, absolutely. Especially in this age of information we have with the Internet which allows us to experience those things from halfway across the world. Not as good as first-hand experience, but at least it lets us see things we might not otherwise see.

[Free Arctic Territories]

Very well can be. I don’t know if I could’ve been considered living before I tried Mongolian stir-fry.

Yeah, and I mean besides the amaaazing exotic foods you can get from thousands of different cultures you also get loads of unique languages, religions, dances, musical styles, arts, and generally nice people to boot all over the place. It's really what makes diversity so great.

Ah yes, don't forget religious fundamentalism, antiquated views that place women and other racial groups in positions of inferiority, wonderful practices like female genital mutilation and circumcision, "traditional" medicine and health practices that are really just a pile of horseshit in a manure bag, and who can forget, ethnic and racial tensions from historical atrocities that can linger for hundreds of years!

Yes, diversity truly is this absolutely perfect thing that every country must have, and these aspects really do make me appreciate how every bit of it is beautiful, eh?

[Den Sosialistiske Republikk Norden]

(posted this in the old thread, sorry)

The problem with immigration in Europe and North America isn't "Multiculturalism". Sweden and Germany aren't "multicultural" states, and to suggest so is laughable, no matter how much their governments claim to be multicultural. They're nationstates. Germany is a state by and for the German ethnic group, as is Sweden for the Swedish, Britain for the British, Ukraine for the Ukrainians, etc. Nationstates by their nature are monocultural. Again, they're built by a particular ethnic group for a particular ethnic group. The Italian nationstate was never built with Middle Easterners or Africans in mind. Thus, whoever lives there and is not the main ethnic group of the nationstate is not a respected citizen of the state, but a "minority". An alien. A second class citizen. Their deviation from the nationstates monocultural status quo is reluctantly tolerated at best and violently resisted by the nationstates titular ethnic group at worst.

Nationstates have always sought to build a homogneous, moocultural society that can be harmonious to the nationstates inherently exclusive nature. When there wasn't any Turks, Pakistanis and Africans in Germany for the dominant German ethnicity to whine over, there were plenty of Poles and Jews. but unlike, Turks, Pakistanis and Africans, Poles and Jews have lived in what is now Germany for centuries. But that didn't appear to matter to German nationalists. They're not the German ethnic group. Thus, they're a deviation from the German nationstate, and must be dismantled in some form or another, despite being indigenous to "Germany". And that's the most devious part of the nationstate; It's all artificial. Nations don't exist. Bavarians have more in common with Austrians than they do Lower Saxons. The Kajkavian dialect spoken in north Croatia is closer to Slovenian than the Croatian spoken in Zagreb and Split. In the 19th century, only 49% of the population of France spoke French. The ethnic groups of southern India aren't even in the same ethnolinguistic group as Indians from north India.

What we see as nationstates are artificial constructs born of social engineering campaigns and genocide. What we see as "Italian" is in fact Venezian, which was promoted by Italian nationalists as the superior language to other lesser languages of Italy. As I said before, 50% of people in France didn't speak French in the 19th century. This was changed with the systematic extinction of languages such as Occitan by the French government. All of these neat borders we have in Europe, a neatly monolithic Czechia, a neatly monolithic Poland, a neatly monolithic Slovakia, etc. That was all caused by the massive ethnic cleansing campaigns post-WWII, forcing Germans out of Poland, Italians out of Yugoslavia, Poles out of Ukraine, and so on, as to help create near-perfect homogeneous societies for the nationstate to operate in.

And for a good while, it worked for the most part. But humans, as you should know through history, are not much of the sedentary type. And now waves upon waves of peoples from east and south are completely unraveling the decades of work put into our European nationstates. Some want to resist this unraveling. But there's also many who want the nationstate to somehow accommodate these weary travelers out of some sense of empathy. This empathy though certainly commendable is muted however by the heavy influence the concept of the nationstate has had on our society. We cannot hope to so much as think of the possibility of a state that isn't a nationstate. And because of that, we don't bother to realize that truly accommodating refugees and immigrants within our nationstates is impossible. "Multiculturalism" within the frameworks of the European nationstate is an oxymoron, and any attempts at harmonization between the two concepts will end in nothing but absolute failure. Thus, we can't argue that "Multiculturalism" is bad by showing heavy violence exhibited by our nationstates minority groups. Those ethnic groups are aliens in an oppressive state built with the intent of excluding them, their family and their culture from truly being respected members of society. You can't possibly expect model behavior from minorities under this system. But instead of seeing that as an inherent flaw in the system, we turn to reactionaries and nationalists who will tell us what we want to hear, that the nationstates is a Good Thing, Actually. It's just those pesky nonwhites who are the problem.

[Ors Might]

I love seeing people from different cultures make their own unique twists on things, especially food. Kind of gets me excited to live in this global age of cultural exchange. Authenticity is all well and good but it’s a pleasure seeing new dishes and traditions form.

Oh yeah, absolutely. Especially in this age of information we have with the Internet which allows us to experience those things from halfway across the world. Not as good as first-hand experience, but at least it lets us see things we might not otherwise see.

I know right? I’m really into interactive novels and there’s this Chinese-Canadian author who’s made some really great pre-industrial war novels. Their strength comes from how detailed and realistic they are despite being low fantasy, due to him basing a lot of the nation’s on real world equivalents. It was interesting to see an outside perspective on my nation and to be playing as a soldier from a minor power. Though I’m somewhat ashamed that my fellow Americans can be portrayed as elves

[Kubumba Tribe]

"traditional" medicine and health practices

Actually, sometimes, traditional medicine is better than modern medicine.

[Ors Might]

Yeah, and I mean besides the amaaazing exotic foods you can get from thousands of different cultures you also get loads of unique languages, religions, dances, musical styles, arts, and generally nice people to boot all over the place. It's really what makes diversity so great.

Ah yes, don't forget religious fundamentalism, antiquated views that place women and other racial groups in positions of inferiority, wonderful practices like female genital mutilation and circumcision, "traditional" medicine and health practices that are really just a pile of horseshit in a manure bag, and who can forget, ethnic and racial tensions from historical atrocities that can linger for hundreds of years!

Yes, diversity truly is this absolutely perfect thing that every country must have, and these aspects really do make me appreciate how every bit of it is beautiful, eh?

Of course some of it’s shit. Anyone who would deny that diversity isn’t at any time a bad thing is fooling themselves. But the point is that it can be really good if done correctly.

[Wedonland]

It is literally fact, that as the development of any country improves, the birth rates in that country reduce. Its phase 3 of the demographic transition model
(Image)

That fact that you posted with the graphic wasn't what I was trying to rebuke. I was talking about the attitude towards becoming a minority. I can still agree that it's a basic fact like you posted.

[Ors Might]

"traditional" medicine and health practices

Actually, sometimes, traditional medicine is better than modern medicine.

I have to really stress the sometimes part of that. I’ve known people who’ve fucked themselves over for trusting too much in that traditional stuff.

[Torrocca]

Yeah, and I mean besides the amaaazing exotic foods you can get from thousands of different cultures you also get loads of unique languages, religions, dances, musical styles, arts, and generally nice people to boot all over the place. It's really what makes diversity so great.

Ah yes, don't forget religious fundamentalism, antiquated views that place women and other racial groups in positions of inferiority, wonderful practices like female genital mutilation and circumcision, "traditional" medicine and health practices that are really just a pile of horseshit in a manure bag, and who can forget, ethnic and racial tensions from historical atrocities that can linger for hundreds of years!

Yes, diversity truly is this absolutely perfect thing that every country must have, and these aspects really do make me appreciate how every bit of it is beautiful, eh?

Wew laddie, have you ever considered hitting up the devil's lettuce and chillaxing? Every culture has shitty bits to it but that doesn't mean we can't enjoy the best they have to offer.

Oh yeah, absolutely. Especially in this age of information we have with the Internet which allows us to experience those things from halfway across the world. Not as good as first-hand experience, but at least it lets us see things we might not otherwise see.

I know right? I’m really into interactive novels and there’s this Chinese-Canadian author who’s made some really great pre-industrial war novels. Their strength comes from how detailed and realistic they are despite being low fantasy, due to him basing a lot of the nation’s on real world equivalents. It was interesting to see an outside perspective on my nation and to be playing as a soldier from a minor power. Though I’m somewhat ashamed that my fellow Americans can be portrayed as elves

Oh my gosh, yeah, the literature that comes from across the world is amazing too. I love getting a different cultural perspective on the world around us, it's honestly refreshing.

[Ors Might]

Ah yes, don't forget religious fundamentalism, antiquated views that place women and other racial groups in positions of inferiority, wonderful practices like female genital mutilation and circumcision, "traditional" medicine and health practices that are really just a pile of horseshit in a manure bag, and who can forget, ethnic and racial tensions from historical atrocities that can linger for hundreds of years!

Yes, diversity truly is this absolutely perfect thing that every country must have, and these aspects really do make me appreciate how every bit of it is beautiful, eh?

Wew laddie, have you ever considered hitting up the devil's lettuce and chillaxing? Every culture has shitty bits to it but that doesn't mean we can't enjoy the best they have to offer.

I know right? I’m really into interactive novels and there’s this Chinese-Canadian author who’s made some really great pre-industrial war novels. Their strength comes from how detailed and realistic they are despite being low fantasy, due to him basing a lot of the nation’s on real world equivalents. It was interesting to see an outside perspective on my nation and to be playing as a soldier from a minor power. Though I’m somewhat ashamed that my fellow Americans can be portrayed as elves

Oh my gosh, yeah, the literature that comes from across the world is amazing too. I love getting a different cultural perspective on the world around us, it's honestly refreshing.

The first book in the series is called Sabres of Infinity if you’re interested. On the App Store, actually. It holds a special place in my heart for encouraging me to try my hand at making a fictional nation and people, which has really helped me become a better and more confident writer.

[Torrocca]

Wew laddie, have you ever considered hitting up the devil's lettuce and chillaxing? Every culture has shitty bits to it but that doesn't mean we can't enjoy the best they have to offer.



Oh my gosh, yeah, the literature that comes from across the world is amazing too. I love getting a different cultural perspective on the world around us, it's honestly refreshing.

The first book in the series is called Sabres of Infinity if you’re interested. On the App Store, actually. It holds a special place in my heart for encouraging me to try my hand at making a fictional nation and people, which has really helped me become a better and more confident writer.

Thanks. I'll definitely take a look.

[Ors Might]

The first book in the series is called Sabres of Infinity if you’re interested. On the App Store, actually. It holds a special place in my heart for encouraging me to try my hand at making a fictional nation and people, which has really helped me become a better and more confident writer.

Thanks. I'll definitely take a look.

No problem, man. Good books deserve to be recommended.

[Free Arctic Territories]

*snip*

So the solution to racism is...

ANARCHY! England for the Anglo-Saxons! France for the Franks! Screw the governments and political ideas that the European powers have developed to fix centuries of warfare and feudalism! Everyone back to their homelands!

Destroying nationstates isn't going to work. You can't simply uproot the entire European political order in order to achieve some sembalance of social harmony. They are just lines on a paper, but they're underpinned by centuries of treaties, wars, and territorial evolution. America, Canada, and other colonial societies are unique cases. They were founded as multiethnic societies, and have had time to develop their own syncretic cultures and a strong national identity. To recklessly open the culturally homogenous old world to completely unrestricted immigration is inviting decades of unresolved racial tensions and resentment between "Europeans" and "Immigrants." It's silly, but you can't change everyone's mind, and I would rather keep immigrants out now and find a solution to the failed states they came from then have Europe disintegrate into sectarian and ethnic violence and have governments enforce integration at the barrel of a gun.

[Free Arctic Territories]

*snip*

Thing is, this is a debate thread, not a casual conversation thread. If you aren't here to to start an argument and hopefully learn something new, go to Forum 7 or hit your buddy up on discord or something.

*snip*

Exactly. The village shaman got his herbs through blind trial and error. The doctor got his pills through rigorous trials and peer reviewed studies. Trust your doctor before you trust some street peddler trying to swindle a few bucks of foreign money through fancy sounding BS.

[Wedonland]

I need to wonder, do any of the ones arguing against those who posted an opposition or are skepticism of diversity and multiculturalism , have any thoughts in their heads only relating it to Hitler and (neo)-nazism? I notice that is a major part of where it comes from.