Left-Wing Discussion Thread III

[Aillyria]

Nothing to hate really, it is what it is. I'll take the day I can disembowel the satanic bourgeois as a sign of progress and advent of the death of their rule.

I don't want to see people suffer. I would much rather that the oligarchs, plutocrats, capitalists, or whatever simply concede.

That's impossible. Besides, they'll be dead,. They'll suffer physically for only a few moments. However, they'll probably suffer mentally for longer as their buddies in their disgusting cult drop like flies, and they'll know they may be next.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

That's impossible. Besides, they'll be dead,. They'll suffer physically for only a few moments. However, they'll probably suffer mentally for longer as their buddies in their disgusting cult drop like flies, and they'll know they may be next.

Of course, it's impossible. However, that is where my heart is.

[Philjia]

What makes revolution so desirable? Why risk the integrity of the state you'll need to implement your policies?

Without revolution you won't have any policies to implement, you'll still be under capitalist policy. That is whole point.

What's so fundamentally wrong with capitalism?

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Absolutely not.

There goes secular society.

Exactly. Secularism and capitalism areincompatible with God's (swt) intended lifestyle for us.[/quote]

Yuck! You'd be such a moralist as to force everyone to abide by the laws of your holy book even if they don't believe it. What happens to people who don't believe in Islam, are they forced to abide by the laws anyway? That's frankly disgusting. How do I get this quote thing to work?

[Democratic Communist Federation]

What's so fundamentally wrong with capitalism?

If is fundamentally unethical that the workers do not own, collectively, the fruits of their labor.

[Cekoviu]

Good.

How's that welfare state working for ya? The whole west will turn into Sweden because they need more debt slaves to fuel their programs and pad their voter base. :^)

How's socialism working out for ya? Seems like the revolution isn't going very well. :^}

[Cekoviu]

How incredibly ironic.

Survival instincts aren't ironic, friend.

Even more ironic; you could say the same for the ☭ ГЛОРИОУС ИНЕВИТАБЛЕ РЕВОЛУТИОН ☭.

[Northern Davincia]

What's so fundamentally wrong with capitalism?

If is fundamentally unethical that the workers do not own, collectively, the fruits of their labor.

They do, and it's called a wage.

[MERIZoC]

If is fundamentally unethical that the workers do not own, collectively, the fruits of their labor.

They do, and it's called a wage.

Basic math says otherwise.

[New Emeline]

If is fundamentally unethical that the workers do not own, collectively, the fruits of their labor.

They do, and it's called a wage.

The workers themselves don't determine a wage.

[Aillyria]

There goes secular society.

Exactly. Secularism and capitalism areincompatible with God's (swt) intended lifestyle for us.

Yuck! You'd be such a moralist as to force everyone to abide by the laws of your holy book even if they don't believe it. What happens to people who don't believe in Islam, are they forced to abide by the laws anyway? That's frankly disgusting. How do I get this quote thing to work?[/quote]

Everyone is a moralist, we all want our ideology to be dominant. Naturally, I'd want the citizens to follow the laws. If you aren't muslim, fine, you'd still have to follow the law though. Historical muslim practice for non-muslims in a muslim ruled state is the dhimmi status.

Also, idk what you did to mess up the quote. ....

[Northern Davincia]

They do, and it's called a wage.

The workers themselves don't determine a wage.

In many cases, they do, either with collective bargaining or some other process.

[New Emeline]

The workers themselves don't determine a wage.

In many cases, they do, either with collective bargaining or some other process.

Er, no, they don't. Usually the company determines a wage.

[United Muscovite Nations]

If is fundamentally unethical that the workers do not own, collectively, the fruits of their labor.

They do, and it's called a wage.

A wage is not the fruits of their labor, it is only a portion of the fruits of their labor.

[New Emeline]

They do, and it's called a wage.

A wage is not the fruits of their labor, it is only a portion of the fruits of their labor.

Exactly.

[The Parkus Empire]

They do, and it's called a wage.

A wage is not the fruits of their labor, it is only a portion of the fruits of their labor.

The worth of their is heavily factored by the means of production.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

How's socialism working out for ya? Seems like the revolution isn't going very well. :^}

To the best of my knowledge, the revolution hasn't started yet (unless someone neglected to tell me).

[Northern Davincia]

They do, and it's called a wage.

A wage is not the fruits of their labor, it is only a portion of the fruits of their labor.

Then how is the total determined?

[United Muscovite Nations]

A wage is not the fruits of their labor, it is only a portion of the fruits of their labor.

Then how is the total determined?

It's the total profit.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

They do, and it's called a wage.

A wage is not the fruits of their labor, it is only a portion of the fruits of their labor.

If I buy a bun for fifty cents and a sausage for fifty cents and then sell a hot dog for $1.50, am I stealing from the bun/sausage joint? Am I stealing from the buyer of the hot dog? No, I'm not. Likewise, making a profit from someone else's labour is not theft.

[Aillyria]

Then how is the total determined?

It's the total profit.

Eh.....this is where I disagree with most people here, the earnings of the workers should be determined by the market (hence I don't support minimum wages, and other interference with market prices), for the most part. The issue is that in capitalism the nature of corporate organization is such that the top echelons of companies, the shareholders appropriate the lions share of the profit.

Also, capitalism is ran on debt spending in order to maintain its bloated and imaginary credit based currencies. But alas, that's a separate issue.

[Cekoviu]

How's socialism working out for ya? Seems like the revolution isn't going very well. :^}

To the best of my knowledge, the revolution hasn't started yet (unless someone neglected to tell me).

After 70 years, at that. Really makes u think, doesn't it?

[Aillyria]

To the best of my knowledge, the revolution hasn't started yet (unless someone neglected to tell me).

After 70 years, at that. Really makes u think, doesn't it?

Social Democracy has done nothing but created socially imploding welfare states, not doing too hot either.

[Cekoviu]

After 70 years, at that. Really makes u think, doesn't it?

Social Democracy has done nothing but created socially imploding welfare states, not doing too hot either.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Dev ... justed_HDI
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruptio ... %80%932016
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Hap ... 017_report
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legatum_P ... 7_rankings
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Poverty_Index#For_selected_high-income_OECD_countries_(HPI-2)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_Index#Ranking
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... _transfers
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... Index#2017
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OECD_Bett ... x#Rankings
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denmark#Economy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden#Economy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway#Economy

tell me more about these imploding welfare states
Also explain why socialist countries are doing far worse than the free-market capitalist and welfare states on those indexes.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

After 70 years, at that. Really makes u think, doesn't it?

Immanuel Wallerstein gives the capitalist world-system, at most, another 30 years or so. Although I have enormous respect for Wallerstein, I am more hesitant than he is to predict a timeline. Nevertheless, I think he may be overestimating.