Libertarian Discussion Thread

[Nulla Bellum]

Also fuggin join the ldt discord taihei

I had joined it, but it's a cellphone battery killer...

[Nulla Bellum]

>I do not understand Marxism or surplus value


1) So then we agree?
2) "student debt is really not that hard to pay off"

The fuck is this shit? College students have negative net worth! It's impossible for them to pay off 100000 dollars of debt with interest. Even with scholarships, colleges just charge more for tuition to take from them as much as possible as well as cheat the government.

Even if we have a sudden influx of new people to college and couldn't afford i , we can just ask for a small tuition fee. It would still mean college is almost free. And also, I used the lowest estimate for the FTT. It can pull in at most 400 billion, and with the 157 billion tax for wealth and the 400 billion military cut we'd have more than enough money for even a 900 billion dollar plan. I have already proven that the USA can more than pay for a 600 billion dollar plan.

1. Do you agree with me?
2. Firstly, average students graduate with ~40k on debt. The 100k+ memes are a really small minority that typically attend colleges in the Ivy League (and are therefore expected to have a better post-college income due to their certifications). Knowing you get 35% underemployment at worst-case studies and an average wage of 50k, we could expect something along the lines of 40k for the underemployed -- which is some thousands above median personal income in the US.

Now, knowing that a reasonable rent for a small house/apartment is $600/month (implying you are moving out already at 21 and unless if you are living on insane places like S.F. where I'd expect a far higher income anyways) and accounting stuff like transportation (~500), healthcare insurance (~200), entertainment (~200), social security taxes (~260) and minor expenses (~350) plus food on which you can confidently spend some $180 a month leaves you at a monthly spending of $2290, i.e. annual spending of $27500. Taking that salary of $40k it means you can save a surplus of $12.5k a year.

Now, to the repaying: 40k outstanding balance plus some 3% real interest p.a. (prime rate+2% minus 2% inflation target) means you can repay your student loan within four years. Since the common age for graduates to finish college and start working is 21-22, with this strategy you can be a debt-free person at your mid-20s already.
tl;dr: It's COMPLETELY possible for a college student to repay their debt even when underemployed. All you need is a tight budget for a few years, not having any children until your 30s and maybe (even though I don't think it's necessary at all considering the above) ask your family for financial help/not moving out for a while.

"Lending money to kids who can't pay it back to educate them for jobs that don't exist anymore is a bad idea." -- Mike Rowe

It's a lot easier to get on-the-job training. I made $100k in the 4 years others went into debt to learn what I do.

[Orostan]

>I do not understand Marxism or surplus value


1) So then we agree?
2) "student debt is really not that hard to pay off"

The fuck is this shit? College students have negative net worth! It's impossible for them to pay off 100000 dollars of debt with interest. Even with scholarships, colleges just charge more for tuition to take from them as much as possible as well as cheat the government.

Even if we have a sudden influx of new people to college and couldn't afford i , we can just ask for a small tuition fee. It would still mean college is almost free. And also, I used the lowest estimate for the FTT. It can pull in at most 400 billion, and with the 157 billion tax for wealth and the 400 billion military cut we'd have more than enough money for even a 900 billion dollar plan. I have already proven that the USA can more than pay for a 600 billion dollar plan.

1. Do you agree with me?
2. Firstly, average students graduate with ~40k on debt. The 100k+ memes are a really small minority that typically attend colleges in the Ivy League (and are therefore expected to have a better post-college income due to their certifications). Knowing you get 35% underemployment at worst-case studies and an average wage of 50k, we could expect something along the lines of 40k for the underemployed -- which is some thousands above median personal income in the US.

Now, knowing that a reasonable rent for a small house/apartment is $600/month (implying you are moving out already at 21 and unless if you are living on insane places like S.F. where I'd expect a far higher income anyways) and accounting stuff like transportation (~500), healthcare insurance (~200), entertainment (~200), social security taxes (~260) and minor expenses (~350) plus food on which you can confidently spend some $180 a month leaves you at a monthly spending of $2290, i.e. annual spending of $27500. Taking that salary of $40k it means you can save a surplus of $12.5k a year.

Now, to the repaying: 40k outstanding balance plus some 3% real interest p.a. (prime rate+2% minus 2% inflation target) means you can repay your student loan within four years. Since the common age for graduates to finish college and start working is 21-22, with this strategy you can be a debt-free person at your mid-20s already.
tl;dr: It's COMPLETELY possible for a college student to repay their debt even when underemployed. All you need is a tight budget for a few years, not having any children until your 30s and maybe (even though I don't think it's necessary at all considering the above) ask your family for financial help/not moving out for a while.

1) We both seem to agree that the bourgeois affect politics in undemocratic ways.
2) 40k Is still an enormous amount of money. In a place like NYC where the jobs are and where it costs an enormous amount to live, you can not pay 600 dollars a month for an apartment. That's just ridiculous, I don't know where you are getting that from. Housing prices in the United States are pretty damn high is any good area with jobs. In places where homes are inexpensive, it's usually because nobody wants to live there because there is no work. People in cities (again, where the jobs are) need to shell out massive amounts of money just to live. In NYC we have high incomes - but high rents too. So high in fact, that it might as well get rid of the spare income! In fact, many students don't expect to repay their loans until they're 40.

[Orostan]

1. Do you agree with me?
2. Firstly, average students graduate with ~40k on debt. The 100k+ memes are a really small minority that typically attend colleges in the Ivy League (and are therefore expected to have a better post-college income due to their certifications). Knowing you get 35% underemployment at worst-case studies and an average wage of 50k, we could expect something along the lines of 40k for the underemployed -- which is some thousands above median personal income in the US.

Now, knowing that a reasonable rent for a small house/apartment is $600/month (implying you are moving out already at 21 and unless if you are living on insane places like S.F. where I'd expect a far higher income anyways) and accounting stuff like transportation (~500), healthcare insurance (~200), entertainment (~200), social security taxes (~260) and minor expenses (~350) plus food on which you can confidently spend some $180 a month leaves you at a monthly spending of $2290, i.e. annual spending of $27500. Taking that salary of $40k it means you can save a surplus of $12.5k a year.

Now, to the repaying: 40k outstanding balance plus some 3% real interest p.a. (prime rate+2% minus 2% inflation target) means you can repay your student loan within four years. Since the common age for graduates to finish college and start working is 21-22, with this strategy you can be a debt-free person at your mid-20s already.
tl;dr: It's COMPLETELY possible for a college student to repay their debt even when underemployed. All you need is a tight budget for a few years, not having any children until your 30s and maybe (even though I don't think it's necessary at all considering the above) ask your family for financial help/not moving out for a while.

"Lending money to kids who can't pay it back to educate them for jobs that don't exist anymore is a bad idea." -- Mike Rowe

It's a lot easier to get on-the-job training. I made $100k in the 4 years others went into debt to learn what I do.

I doubt that opportunity is there for most people.

>I do not understand Marxism or surplus value

Sure thing, sweetie. Try suing for damages with a "muh employer exploited muh 'surplus value'" argument in a court of law.

::pats head::

>what the fuck is not legally recognizing surplus value extraction as theft
>what the fuck is being dense

I don't think anyone who believes in "surplus value" has any right talking about spooks.

I don't think you know what surplus value is or want to know.

[Great Minarchistan]

1. Do you agree with me?
2. Firstly, average students graduate with ~40k on debt. The 100k+ memes are a really small minority that typically attend colleges in the Ivy League (and are therefore expected to have a better post-college income due to their certifications). Knowing you get 35% underemployment at worst-case studies and an average wage of 50k, we could expect something along the lines of 40k for the underemployed -- which is some thousands above median personal income in the US.

Now, knowing that a reasonable rent for a small house/apartment is $600/month (implying you are moving out already at 21 and unless if you are living on insane places like S.F. where I'd expect a far higher income anyways) and accounting stuff like transportation (~500), healthcare insurance (~200), entertainment (~200), social security taxes (~260) and minor expenses (~350) plus food on which you can confidently spend some $180 a month leaves you at a monthly spending of $2290, i.e. annual spending of $27500. Taking that salary of $40k it means you can save a surplus of $12.5k a year.

Now, to the repaying: 40k outstanding balance plus some 3% real interest p.a. (prime rate+2% minus 2% inflation target) means you can repay your student loan within four years. Since the common age for graduates to finish college and start working is 21-22, with this strategy you can be a debt-free person at your mid-20s already.
tl;dr: It's COMPLETELY possible for a college student to repay their debt even when underemployed. All you need is a tight budget for a few years, not having any children until your 30s and maybe (even though I don't think it's necessary at all considering the above) ask your family for financial help/not moving out for a while.

1) We both seem to agree that the bourgeois affect politics in undemocratic ways.
2) 40k Is still an enormous amount of money. In a place like NYC where the jobs are and where it costs an enormous amount to live, you can not pay 600 dollars a month for an apartment. That's just ridiculous, I don't know where you are getting that from. Housing prices in the United States are pretty damn high is any good area with jobs. In places where homes are inexpensive, it's usually because nobody wants to live there because there is no work. People in cities (again, where the jobs are) need to shell out massive amounts of money just to live. In NYC we have high incomes - but high rents too. So high in fact, that it might as well get rid of the spare income! In fact, many students don't expect to repay their loans until they're 40.

1. According to that line of thought everyone affects politics in undemocratic ways.
2. 40k is an enormous amount of money to basically guarantee employment for life while assuring you'll earn a lot more than the citizen that didn't go through college? Nope.

On regards to your rent rant, you can always look it by yourself through the link I sourced my assumptions on. And on that link, much of it can be connected to both wrong expectations and extremely bad financial decisions. People that have children and are getting a mortgage right out of college for instance deserve their bad situation. After all what did you expect? Having a middle class wet dream at early 20s?

[Nulla Bellum]

.

Sure thing, sweetie. Try suing for damages with a "muh employer exploited muh 'surplus value'" argument in a court of law.

::pats head::

>what the fuck is not legally recognizing surplus value extraction as theft
>what the fuck is being dense

Dude. You're like here, arguing that the government should dissuade the working class away from revolutionary socialist thinking by educating them for free. And with a hilarious dearth of a sense of irony.



I'll just walk that stomped mudhole dry with a humiliating "Do you even Marx, bruh?"

t. ding dong

[The Liberated Territories]

With all the bantz between Orostan and co, we should be on our second thread in no time.

Any ideas for a name, lads? I might not be the one to make it this time, that honor I will bestow upon GM if he chooses.

What about "Atlas Hugs?"

[Northern Davincia]

With all the bantz between Orostan and co, we should be on our second thread in no time.

Any ideas for a name, lads? I might not be the one to make it this time, that honor I will bestow upon GM if he chooses.

What about "Atlas Hugs?"

That would make libertarianism seem friendly.
A strange notion, in other words.

[Nulla Bellum]

With all the bantz between Orostan and co, we should be on our second thread in no time.

Any ideas for a name, lads? I might not be the one to make it this time, that honor I will bestow upon GM if he chooses.

What about "Atlas Hugs?"

Sex, Drugs, and Bankrolls

[Nulla Bellum]

With all the bantz between Orostan and co, we should be on our second thread in no time.

Any ideas for a name, lads? I might not be the one to make it this time, that honor I will bestow upon GM if he chooses.

What about "Atlas Hugs?"

That would make libertarianism seem friendly.
A strange notion, in other words.

ATLAS NUGS

[Nulla Bellum]

Ayn Rand sez get yer own damned cig you looter

[Northern Davincia]

Ayn Rand sez get yer own damned cig you looter

[West Leas Oros]

No, he hates constitutions because he's a dirty criminal and hates justice.

Where is the negative part here

The negative part is that hating justice is an easy way to become a sociopath.

[Mattopilos II]

Where is the negative part here

The negative part is that hating justice is an easy way to become a sociopath.

Depends on one's notion of justice.

[West Leas Oros]

The negative part is that hating justice is an easy way to become a sociopath.

Depends on one's notion of justice.

Which you don't seem to have one.

[Mattopilos II]

Depends on one's notion of justice.

Which you don't seem to have one.

I might, but certainly not regarding to you, not that is something that bothers me.

[West Leas Oros]

Which you don't seem to have one.

I might, but certainly not regarding to you, not that is something that bothers me.

You probably don't.

[Mattopilos II]

I might, but certainly not regarding to you, not that is something that bothers me.

You probably don't.

You seem to know me quite well... or pretend to.

[West Leas Oros]

You probably don't.

You seem to know me quite well... or pretend to.

The feeling is mutual! You seem to pretend to know me too!

[Mattopilos II]

You seem to know me quite well... or pretend to.

The feeling is mutual! You seem to pretend to know me too!

The number of assumptions I have made about you are as follows:
1. you are demsoc
2. you are a reformist
3. your views are socially conservative

That's about it.

[West Leas Oros]

The feeling is mutual! You seem to pretend to know me too!

The number of assumptions I have made about you are as follows:
1. you are demsoc
2. you are a reformist
3. your views are socially conservative

That's about it.

1. True. And I'm proud of it.
2. True. And I'm proud of it.
3. Actually, no. Not really. I'm also atheist. I'm most likely socially centrist.

[Mattopilos II]

The number of assumptions I have made about you are as follows:
1. you are demsoc
2. you are a reformist
3. your views are socially conservative

That's about it.

1. True. And I'm proud of it.
2. True. And I'm proud of it.
3. Actually, no. Not really. I'm also atheist. I'm most likely socially centrist.

Atheists can just as easily be socially conservative. There is much evidence of that by going pretty much anywhere on the internet or looking into the New Atheist movement.

[West Leas Oros]

1. True. And I'm proud of it.
2. True. And I'm proud of it.
3. Actually, no. Not really. I'm also atheist. I'm most likely socially centrist.

Atheists can just as easily be socially conservative. There is much evidence of that by going pretty much anywhere on the internet or looking into the New Atheist movement.

That doesn't mean I am though.

[Mattopilos II]

Atheists can just as easily be socially conservative. There is much evidence of that by going pretty much anywhere on the internet or looking into the New Atheist movement.

That doesn't mean I am though.

You used it as a defense from my assumption you are socially conservative, so methinks the purpose was to suggest a more socially liberal character belonged to atheism, which isn't necessarily true.

[West Leas Oros]

That doesn't mean I am though.

You used it as a defense from my assumption you are socially conservative, so methinks the purpose was to suggest a more socially liberal character belonged to atheism, which isn't necessarily true.

Many socially conservative ideals are also very traditionally Christian as well. As an atheist, it would seem only normal to oppose such values.